Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Misc. Forums > Aviation History and Nostalgia
Reload this Page >

Vulcan tried to escape from Wellesbourne, 16th Sept 2022

Aviation History and Nostalgia Whether working in aviation, retired, wannabee or just plain fascinated this forum welcomes all with a love of flight.

Vulcan tried to escape from Wellesbourne, 16th Sept 2022

Old 17th Sep 2022, 15:29
  #41 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: uk
Posts: 143
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
These thing are always fraught with uncertainty. Landing at a given speed with a known amount of runway left is calculable. Realising the ASI isn’t working, an “oh gawd” moment before the brakes come on and you can see the results. Thank goodness for a long hot summer. I remember a Canberra went off the end of St Mawgan after running up to EMBS for TV cameras, forgetting the premise on which that is based, namely the brakes will be kaput. Glad nobody hurt and I am sure more care will be taken next time to have a reliable speed source. A light airframe and 4 Olympus is a rocket ship.
ciderman is offline  
Old 17th Sep 2022, 16:28
  #42 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Lincolnshire
Posts: 166
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
ASDA
ASDA
ASDA
reds & greens is offline  
Old 17th Sep 2022, 16:59
  #43 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: pluto
Posts: 197
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Was James May at the controls?

(see Grand Tour S5).
blimey is offline  
Old 17th Sep 2022, 17:12
  #44 (permalink)  
Thought police antagonist
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Where I always have been...firmly in the real world
Posts: 1,254
Received 3 Likes on 3 Posts
Originally Posted by spekesoftly View Post
Any news on how the recovery operation is progressing?
They may possibly be searching for Tracjacks and Trolley Salvage carriers.....and towing bridles
Krystal n chips is online now  
Old 17th Sep 2022, 17:14
  #45 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2021
Location: Wiltshire
Posts: 168
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Krystal n chips View Post
They may possibly be searching for Tracjacks and Trolley Salvage carriers.....and towing bridles
Doubtful; a couple of strops should do it. Nice and simple.
Pypard is offline  
Old 17th Sep 2022, 17:19
  #46 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 1,162
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Cuillin Hills View Post
No Vulcan expert but dont the spoilers get extended on landing (or RTOs) for additional weight on wheels (and increased braking efficiency)?
The Vulcan has airbrakes (2 position - medium and high drag), they have no spoiler effect. They are manually selected and the approach is flown with High Drag airbrake. The SOP for a RTO was to extend the airbrakes after closing the throttles (thrust levers in modern speak). PNF would stream the TBC if speed <75 and >145.

ciderman

These thing are always fraught with uncertainty. Landing at a given speed with a known amount of runway left is calculable. Realising the ASI isnt working, an oh gawd moment before the brakes come on and you can see the results.
I could not agree more! An accelerate stop manoeuvre requires very careful planning, it's not in the ODM or Performance Manual and you need to go back to first principles to work it out and and ensure that you have sufficient safety margins. Just trying to compute it using a LDR calculation on an assumed reduced runway length isn't adequate. The 2 second delay quoted by the operator in their statement would seem indicate that no margin existed.

Just for reference, you would plan to use less that maximum braking for an accelerate/stop demonstration whilst for a full blooded high speed RTO you apply the brakes fully and at once. If you've ever experienced a RTO in modern aircraft fitted with autobrake you will know that the RTO Brake setting is fierce to say tthe least.

Finally, someone asked about the Vulcan anti-skid system? It was a Maxaret system and worked quite well.

YS

Yellow Sun is online now  
Old 17th Sep 2022, 17:43
  #47 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Quite near 'An aerodrome somewhere in England'
Posts: 26,340
Received 14 Likes on 6 Posts
I recall the saga of 'Roadrunner 1' in around 1978....

A Waddington squadron's aircraft had been snagged for excessive nosewheel shimmy, which the engineers then repaired. However, it was necessary to check that the problem had been fixed by conducting a fast run on the RW, to around 90KIAS.

"Any one free to do a taxy check please?" asked the engineers. Whereupon a recent ICC graduate co-pilot said that he was, grabbed an unsuspecting AEO and went to the jet. All went OK during start up, but realising that they didn't have a call-sign, he announced that he was 'Roadrunner 1' for a taxy check. ATC cleared him; there was no Duty Pilot in the tower as no Waddo aircraft were within 100nm, so off our hero went....

Roaring down the into wind RW, all was well - the engineers had indeed fixed the snag. "Better do another run just to be sure", announced the pilot and thundered off downwind. Again all went well - until he tried to stop! The brakes had more or less had enough as they were so hot, so 'Roadrunner 1' trundled off the end of the RW and onto the grass just short of the A15.
BEagle is offline  
Old 17th Sep 2022, 17:44
  #48 (permalink)  
Thought police antagonist
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Where I always have been...firmly in the real world
Posts: 1,254
Received 3 Likes on 3 Posts
Originally Posted by Pypard View Post
Doubtful; a couple of strops should do it. Nice and simple.
No sense of humour then...
Krystal n chips is online now  
Old 17th Sep 2022, 18:01
  #49 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2022
Location: Great Britain
Posts: 413
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes on 3 Posts
Lots of negativity on here but I hope they can keep doing their fast taxis. Gives a few more people the experience of a live Vulcan even if not a flying one.
Maybe change the fast taxi to several engine run ups and some slow taxis would be a better experience for the enthusiast.
The part of these events spectators want is the noise. If you can have the noise without the risk everyone is happy.
uxb99 is offline  
Old 17th Sep 2022, 18:17
  #50 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Reading, UK
Posts: 14,633
Likes: 0
Received 29 Likes on 13 Posts
Originally Posted by dixi188 View Post
If it is MaxArret type
In all the years since my first introduction to Maxarets, and being shown how to check them on a PDC, the derivation of the name had never dawned on me, until now.
DaveReidUK is offline  
Old 17th Sep 2022, 19:08
  #51 (permalink)  
Gnome de PPRuNe
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Too close to Croydon for comfort
Age: 58
Posts: 10,951
Received 5 Likes on 5 Posts
Originally Posted by DaveReidUK View Post
In all the years since my first introduction to Maxarets, and being shown how to check them on a PDC, the derivation of the name had never dawned on me, until now.
Took me a long time to realise after I first heard of the system and followed a difficult dive into the admittedly shallow depths of my schoolboy French! Think I was reading someone's autobiography when the bulb lit...
treadigraph is offline  
Old 17th Sep 2022, 19:20
  #52 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2021
Location: Wiltshire
Posts: 168
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Krystal n chips View Post
No sense of humour then...
Oh I'm sure you must.
Pypard is offline  
Old 17th Sep 2022, 21:09
  #53 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Dorset UK
Age: 69
Posts: 1,576
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by DaveReidUK View Post
In all the years since my first introduction to Maxarets, and being shown how to check them on a PDC, the derivation of the name had never dawned on me, until now.
I had forgotten the spelling so went for the origin in french. Was it a French invention?
Only a/c I worked with them was the Viscount.
I recall if maximum braking was used there would be a series of tyre marks on the runway as the wheel started to skid and then the brake released. I wondered why there are no marks on the runway behind the Vulcan. Did the pilot not use max braking even when they were near the end of the runway?
dixi188 is offline  
Old 17th Sep 2022, 21:19
  #54 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Downeast
Age: 74
Posts: 17,789
Received 146 Likes on 59 Posts
Tis a shame...was hoping to see the Vulcan flying again doing displays!

Hope it all turns out for the better as I know it was heartbreaking for those trying to get it back into the air.

SASless is offline  
Old 17th Sep 2022, 21:54
  #55 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2022
Location: Up Narf
Posts: 139
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Krystal n chips View Post
No sense of humour then...
They got it out with kit borrowed from VTTS (tow bridal) a firm with diggers and other companies with the vehicles and hardware to do an off runway recovery. And a lot of hard work. They admit that they would not have been able to do it without help. I would sack the driver and get a proper regime in place s I do with my jet car.. Reminds me of the Victor last flight. I was working on a project today with its team leader and mentioned the person involved with that. Bill said he had met the guy and was so unimpressed with the actual professionalism of him. Bill wasn't the first with the same opinion mentioned to me.
Diff Tail Shim is offline  
Old 17th Sep 2022, 22:48
  #56 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Reading, UK
Posts: 14,633
Likes: 0
Received 29 Likes on 13 Posts
Originally Posted by SASless View Post
Tis a shame...was hoping to see the Vulcan flying again doing displays!

Hope it all turns out for the better as I know it was heartbreaking for those trying to get it back into the air.
No Vulcan will never take to the air again.

The one that's the subject of this thread last flew nearly 40 years ago.
DaveReidUK is offline  
Old 17th Sep 2022, 23:13
  #57 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: A Fine City
Age: 56
Posts: 969
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes on 2 Posts
Originally Posted by 45989 View Post
Amazing to see the boring "health and safties" wade in as usual. GET A LIFE!!
These boring people are the professionals!!!! To do this sort of thing, the Aircraft has to be insured (I'm in a team that does this exact type of activity).Anything that drives that insurance cost up is not good, especially when a bunch of what can only be described as cowboys fail to account for the fact that the aircraft is not serviced at the same level that it was while in service and fail to have a back up method of ensuring that the "Jet Car" safely stays on the runway. In the video below, the Driver had both a motile phone on the HUD and had placed ground markers along the runway!!

MAINJAFAD is offline  
Old 18th Sep 2022, 01:35
  #58 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: It's a secret
Posts: 316
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by BEagle View Post
I recall the saga of 'Roadrunner 1' in around 1978....

A Waddington squadron's aircraft had been snagged for excessive nosewheel shimmy, which the engineers then repaired. However, it was necessary to check that the problem had been fixed by conducting a fast run on the RW, to around 90KIAS.

"Any one free to do a taxy check please?" asked the engineers. Whereupon a recent ICC graduate co-pilot said that he was, grabbed an unsuspecting AEO and went to the jet. All went OK during start up, but realising that they didn't have a call-sign, he announced that he was 'Roadrunner 1' for a taxy check. ATC cleared him; there was no Duty Pilot in the tower as no Waddo aircraft were within 100nm, so off our hero went....

Roaring down the into wind RW, all was well - the engineers had indeed fixed the snag. "Better do another run just to be sure", announced the pilot and thundered off downwind. Again all went well - until he tried to stop! The brakes had more or less had enough as they were so hot, so 'Roadrunner 1' trundled off the end of the RW and onto the grass just short of the A15.
Spookily I was just recounting this very story to my ex USAF brother in law after he pointed the story out on t’internet! Whatever happened to Frank?🤣

Last edited by Specaircrew; 18th Sep 2022 at 01:47.
Specaircrew is offline  
Old 18th Sep 2022, 08:45
  #59 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Chedburgh, Bury St.Edmunds
Age: 80
Posts: 1,153
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Reported on another site as to having been already winched out, and is on hard standing.
JEM60 is offline  
Old 18th Sep 2022, 08:59
  #60 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Westnoreastsouth
Posts: 1,661
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by dixi188 View Post
I had forgotten the spelling so went for the origin in french. Was it a French invention?
No - the maxaret system was developed by Dunlop in Britain AFAIK - I have always assumed the name was just a clever play on words
longer ron is online now  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information

Copyright © 2023 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.