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Boeing 727 Holiday jets.

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Boeing 727 Holiday jets.

Old 27th May 2021, 20:15
  #41 (permalink)  
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When G-BMLP first visited these shores, there were quite a few issues with the CAA getting it certificated in view of both the JATO system and the previous damage history of the airframe. It spent part of its first summer flying for Dan-Air as N727ZV (I think?) and was always reckoned by the Dan crews to be a little bit faster than the other 727s, which was some going as the 727s could comfortably overtake a 737 which had left ten minutes earlier on a night flight back to the UK from Corfu or Malaga.
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Old 27th May 2021, 21:06
  #42 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by N707ZS View Post
We seem to be missing Sabre and Cougar aviation.
That's because we're generally discussing the eighties!

Sabre was established in August 1994 and started operations on the 17 December 1994. Sabre was absorbed into Excel Airways on the 12 September 2008.

Cougar Aviation was founded in 2000 and started operations in March 2001 with three Boeing-225. Cougar Aviation ceased operating on the 17 May 2003.
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Old 27th May 2021, 21:50
  #43 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Flightrider View Post
When G-BMLP first visited these shores, there were quite a few issues with the CAA getting it certificated in view of both the JATO system and the previous damage history of the airframe. It spent part of its first summer flying for Dan-Air as N727ZV (I think?)
It had actually been used quite a bit in between the damage (which took just a few months to repair) and Dan-Air getting it; it did a year with Northeastern (not to be confused with Northeast), and then a year with Sun Country in the US, before coming across the Atlantic. The FAA seemed OK with it. The CAA did have a history of finding issues with Dan-Air's 727s.
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Old 28th May 2021, 06:24
  #44 (permalink)  
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I believe all the Mexicana 727-200s had it. They were more marginal than the original model. Mexicana had both.

Pan Am shut down in December 1991, and the various reincarnations that came and went were not running in 1993, so I guess this refers to a former Pan Am aircraft. It's a chance that it had been in the Berlin fleet. Back in the 1970s Pan Am's 727 fleet was about half and half between Berlin and Miami, maybe a dozen each, with about another three up to 1975 also at Bangkok whence they operated military charters into Vietnam (obviously not after the fall). The two fleets did periodic exchanges, which is how they turned up occasionally transiting Prestwick or Shannon. But after 1980 National Airlines was merged in, including the route you were on, which brought their own substantial 727 fleet into Pan Am. Furthermore Pan Am then brought various secondhand aircraft in addition. They gave up in Berlin in 1990, shortly after the Wall fell there, and the fleet returned to the USA, although in the final years it was pretty much 737s (secondhand and often looking decidedly down-at-heel, plus a couple of A300s. But 737s are over in the other thread !
Thank you for the info. On checking the PanAm flights, they were in April of 1991 and were PanAm flights, PAxxx flight numbers and aircraft. I had many years where I was just flying with minimal 'enthusiast' interest and it's all a blur. Wish I'd had a camera....During this time I did do a few flights on Kiwi International Airlines 727's between Newark (the 'cheap' option for NYC back then) to Chicago Midway (also the cheap option) and I seem to remember some of their 727's were ex-PanAm, although maybe Northwest Orient originally.
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Old 28th May 2021, 20:34
  #45 (permalink)  
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A few more.

Air Madeira

Trans Adria


BHT Bogazici Air Transport
TUR European Airways
Nesu Air

Constellation International Airlines

Air Terrex

Air Slovakia

Southern International Air Transport - well not quite... this Viscount operator was due to use a 727, but it never came to fruition - did Dan Air operate it instead?
European Air Charter - again, not quite - had a 727 painted up, but never operated for them?

Some of these may be out of scope as they are from the 1990s, some may have operated the 727 for a short time and on lease from other airlines.

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Old 29th May 2021, 03:59
  #46 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by jetstream7 View Post

Trans Adria
I don't think Trans Adria had 727's as they were an internal operator with (I think) Swearingen Metroliners?
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Old 29th May 2021, 04:43
  #47 (permalink)  
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Maybe Inex Adria though I don't recall them ever having 727s.
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Old 29th May 2021, 08:29
  #48 (permalink)  
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More early 727's and 727's in Funchal too

Former Yugoslavia holidays operator Yugotours used JAT Charter (Air Yugoslavia) 727-200's along with 707 and DC-9.
TransAdria came out of former Pan Adria who had a sole DC-9 (that went to Inex Adria, who never flew any Boeings)

Aviogenex went ''Boeing'' to replace their TU-134A's in 1983 with 727-200's, and 2 new 737-200 in 1987.
(The 727 were 2 former Tito Air Force VIP aircraft that sometimes flew charters to the UK in that livery)

Iberia 727's flew for Aviaco IT's on many occasions.

Olympic AW had a series of night charters in the 1970's from LHR to CFU, ATH, HER and RHO Maritsa.
They used 727, 720B and 707 on these.

Scanair's 727 were actually the Transair Sweden fleet but the 2 had tied up together, and Transair 727's stayed in their own colours.

Pan Am 727-100's were seen now and again at LTN and MAN subbing for the likes of Britannia etc<
and Pan Am regularly flew 727 IT charters from Berlin for German Holidaymakers until reunification.

Hapag Lloyd started up in 1973 with 727-100's around the same time as Dan Air acquired theirs. (all coming second hand from Japan)
Hapag Lloyd had 7 by 1977, as did Dan Air.
In 1979 Hapag Lloyd got 2 brand new 727-200ADV from Boeing.

No UK airline flew the 727 at that early time, but BMA were offered some 727-100's (cannot recall who from) I think they then went for the DC-9 and turned them down,
and Court Line were musing the 727-200.
No idea if Britannia AW ever considered the 727 but I am sure Boeing would have tried.

727 Funchal Madeira Airport Trivia -

When Funchal Madeira Airport started to accept Jets, TAP's 727-82's flew there, and then TAP started to fly in their new 727-282ADV from 1975.
The original runway opened in 1964 was only 1,600m long, although it was theoretically just long enough for the first generation of jets, such as the Caravelle and Boeing 727, it had become clear by 1972 that the runway would need to be extended if it was to accommodate the ever increasing flow of tourists, as it was still too short for most jets to fly non-stop back to the UK so a Fuel stop was needed at the Airport on the nearby island of Porto Santo.
However, despite the recognized need the runway extension plan still hadn’t broken ground, but was extended by 200m eight years after the terrible crash of TAP Flight 425 727-282ADV CS-TBR in 1977. TAP Flight 425 was a regular service from Brussels to Funchal, with an en route stop at Lisbon.

Madeira Airport didn’t then have an ILS; only a visual approach could be used to reach the runway.
To land there Pilots had to undergo special training to prepare them for the difficult approach pattern and the extremely unpredictable winds and difficult weather conditions that tend to form where the mountainous island meets the sea, Pilots knew to expect widespread cumulonimbus cloud formations, heavy rain showers, and possible thunderstorms in the vicinity of the Airport that they may encounter.
This required the pilots to be able to maintain visual contact with the runway at all times, both at night, or in bad weather this would be challenging.
In the case of TAP 425 which was attempting a landing in bad weather and at night, not all of the Airport runway lighting systems could be turned on simultaneously.
The Crew requested that the runway lights be turned up to their maximum intensity, to which the Controller replied that he had already done so. But in fact, not all of the lighting could be turned on simultaneously.
With the way the circuitry had been installed, it was impossible to illuminate both the Touchdown Zone lighting and the Visual Approach Slope Indicator System (VASIS) at the same time. To help the pilots of flight 425 execute their visual approach, the Controller had turned on the VASIS lighting, which meant that the lighting on the runway indicating the touchdown zone would be off.
After descending to an altitude of 980 feet, TAP 425 still could not catch sight of the runway, despite the lights. Having reached the minimum descent altitude without visual contact, they had no choice but to go around and try again. The Pilots reported to the Controller that they were climbing back to 3,500 feet and would loop around to try landing on runway 24 from the opposite direction in the hope that conditions there would be better. This runway, while angled downhill, would also allow them to land into wind.
With the airport in sight, TAP 425 lined up to approach runway 24, but the shifting clouds foiled their approach a second time, the Controller asked, “Can you still see the runway?”
TAP 425 replied, “Negative, TAP 425 is making a missed approach and is returning to the MAD [beacon].”
At an altitude of just 600 feet, the pilots had lost sight of the runway, forcing another go-around.
As they returned to the beginning of the approach pattern again for a third time, TAP 425 told the Controller, “Okay, I was on final watching 24, and suddenly after passing MAD I completely lost visual. Now I’ll try one more approach, and if I can’t get in this time, we’ll go to Las Palmas.” This attempt to land would be the last before making a costly diversion to the Canary Islands.
The Controller then offered another option. “The Front has been passing quickly,” he said. “Now I think if you wait (hold), maybe you can land.”
But the Pilots of TAP 425 could not afford to sit in a Holding Pattern and wait for conditions to improve. The Pilot on the radio replied, “I can’t, I only have fuel for one more approach.”
TAP 425 lined up to land for the third and final time. The Pilots confirmed they had the lights of runway 24 in sight; The Controller reported that a major downpour had begun near the Control Tower, but the Pilots said they could still see some of the runway lights so they continued.
For a brief moment, they seemed to lose sight again, but then at the last moment the lights came back into view.
“425, for your information, I now have calm wind on runway 24,” the Controller said “Will you try it?”
“Okay,” said 425, “I’m on final and I’ll land.”
This was last radio call heard from the 727
“Okay, wind calm, cleared to land,” the Controller replied.
Flight 425 came in hot, passing over runway 24's threshold 24 knots faster than the normal landing speed.
The Pilots flared the airplane, but at that speed combined with the gentle downward slope of the runway the 727 started “floating” a couple of meters above it, unable to touch down.
The plane overshot the normal TDZ by a significant margin before finally making contact over half way down the 1600 m runway, still traveling 20 knots faster than the optimal landing speed.
The downpour that drenched the airport only moments earlier had left a layer of water on the runway which was slow to drain off.
The runway had been grooved to allow water to run off to the sides, but over time these had worn down enough to allow some standing water, instead to run straight off the runway toward the downhill end.
As a result, when the 727 finally touched down, it did so on a surface contaminated with a continuous layer of water, and Flight 425 aquaplaned immediately, so when the Pilots tried maximum braking this proved completely ineffective.
Desperate to slow down, the Crew then applied maximum reverse thrust, but they were already out of control. An errant rudder input had sent the plane skidding to the right, then back to the left again. Flight 425 slid wildly across the runway, rapidly eating up the remaining distance with no hope of stopping in time. In the Official Accident Report it was noted that the late application of Spoilers and Speed Brakes, failure of the Anti-Skid to operate, plus an incorrect landing flap setting were all contributory factors.
Seconds later the TAP 727 flew off the precipitous west end of the runway at over 90 miles per hour and plunged down the 90 foot embankment at the foot of the runway, clearing the airport perimeter road before smashing tail-first into a disused stone bridge spanning a dry ravine.
The impact shattered the fuselage into four pieces and broke off both wings, leaving the tail section atop the bridge while the rest of the plane cartwheeled onto the rocky beach below. The right wing sheared off on impact and fell on the inland side of the bridge, while the cockpit went nose-first into the beach, where it was crushed underneath the disintegrating passenger cabin.
A fireball erupted over the crashing surf as the fuel tanks exploded, setting the wreckage ablaze.
Against all odds, some people managed to survive the crash and the fire. A few passengers from the last row found themselves still strapped into their seats on top of the bridge, protected from the inferno raging below them. Quite a few others had been thrown from the plane as it broke apart, including some who landed in the sea, where they too avoided the worst of the flames.
Among the survivors was 17-year-old Emanuel Torres, who found himself immersed in the sea with only minor injuries. He picked up a 2-year-old boy struggling in the surf and carried him to safety. Witnesses who rushed to the scene fought fire and smoke to free injured passengers from their seat belts, dragging them away in the nick of time.
Airport fire-fighters also saw the explosion off the end of runway 24 and sped toward it, only to discover that the plane had fallen down off the elevated Airport and onto the beach below, forcing them to drive back the way they came and down the perimeter road to access the crash site.
By the time they got there, Local police and fire-fighters had already arrived and had set about saving the survivors. In all, first responders and the survivors themselves did manage to save the lives of 31 passengers and 2 of the Cabin Crew, most of them suffering from serious injuries. But 131 died, including all three Pilots, whose bodies were never found.

AP Movie News TAP crash aftermath

It was the deadliest aircraft accident in Portuguese history until 1989 when 144 people died in the crash of an Independent Air Boeing 707 in the Azores.
After the 1977 accident, TAP stopped flying the Boeing 727-282 to Madeira, and started flying only their shorter Boeing 727-100 Series.
In 2000, the runway was again extended, this time to 2,780m built as a platform on stilts extending out over the sea.

FNC 1960's - clearly shows the stone bridge above the beach.

Madeira Tourist Trivia -
Tourism had boomed and Madeira has been on the tourist map for decades, and those visitors of yesteryear came, naturally by Ship, Cruise Liner, or on the Aquila Airways Flying Boat service from Southampton via Lisbon.
Famous past visitors include Sir Winston Churchill, who stayed at Reid’s Palace Hotel, and liked to visit (and repeatedly paint there) at Cāmara de Lobos, the pretty fishing village nearby, which provided something of an antidote to his “black dog days”.
George Bernard Shaw was another frequenter, along with Marconi and David Lloyd-George, all attracted by the “Green Pearl'' of the Atlantic’s year-round mild climate, spectacular and lush scenery, gorgeous flora, and friendly welcome.
Madeira was a stop on the Union Castle Lines Empire Mail route from Southampton to the Cape in the Union of South Africa, and onto Mombasa in East Africa.
It was one of the most important British Liner routes of all times, carrying passengers as well as cargo, including the all-important Mail.
It was a byword in travel – ‘every Thursday at 4’, as one of the big Union Castle liners set sail for Cape Town and beyond. ​
The Mount Nelson Hotel in Cape Town was built by the Line for their passengers to rest at after their long sea voyage.

But the island of Madeira's inaccessibility, which of course made it so exclusive, was a problem for Madeira’s government, which wanted both to increase visitor numbers and facilitate trade with Mother Country Portugal. So an Airport was built and opened in 1964 and was at first called Aeroporto de Santa Catarina.

Both Reid's Palace, and the Mount Nelson Hotel's are today owned by Belmond.

Last edited by rog747; 29th May 2021 at 09:55.
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Old 29th May 2021, 09:55
  #49 (permalink)  
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Clicking on 'Download Spreadsheet' here will give you a nice Excel spreadsheet, initially in Zipfile format, which gives operator detail of all 727s. They are updated every few months.

Airlinerlist.com (planelist.net)
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Old 29th May 2021, 18:15
  #50 (permalink)  
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I visited Madeira for the first time in September last year, during the brief reprise in lockdown, flying BA's service from LHR, and like most arriving passengers, enjoyed a wonderful "sporty' arrival in that endless windshear, which the BA A320 crew handled beautifully.

I live in Cape Town and had been repatriated back to the UK on 27th May 2020, along with my young son, to be re-united with my wife who had become trapped in the UK when the worlds borders had shut (Our repatriation flight turned out to be he 4th last ever BA 747-400 passenger service, on G-CIVO). Having spent so much time on BA42/43 and 58/59, I am still sad the -400 will never again grace the skies over Cape Town.

I had never before appreciated the physical link between the UK, Madeira and SA, so beautiful described by rog747. The common flora and fauna along with Madeiran cultural influence, makes anyone who enjoys the Western Cape as their home, immediately feel at home on that vey special island.And yes, Reids is wonderful.

Hopeless waffle on my part.
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Old 30th May 2021, 10:31
  #51 (permalink)  
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That is very kind -
Yes me too as both Madeira and Cape Town hold very special affections for me also, and I do love to stay at both the Grand old pink Ladies -
Reid's Palace FNC and The Mount Nelson CPT.
Two old bastions of Colonial luxury and excess LOL.
(Along with the VIC Falls Hotel as well - I cannot wait to go there, and back to CPT in 2023, then we are sailing home to SOU on the Cunard Liner QM2 calling at Madeira!)

WOW, way off topic now - sorry folks - lockdown boredom lol (Made all the better though by enjoying these Threads)

Back on Topic -
Sterling Airways did fly 727 charters every winter to Mombasa East Africa - Not sure of the stops from Scandinavia tho'
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Old 30th May 2021, 19:28
  #52 (permalink)  
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I don't think Trans Adria had 727's as they were an internal operator with (I think) Swearingen Metroliners?
This website about Transair Sweden has the history of SE-DDD and a picture of it with Trans Adria titles.

Boeing 727 ? Transair Sweden AB
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Old 30th May 2021, 20:17
  #53 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by rog747 View Post
Sterling Airways did fly 727 charters every winter to Mombasa East Africa - Not sure of the stops from Scandinavia tho'
They also did Bangkok, Natal in Brazil and San Francisco with them. Even more extraordinarily, they had pioneered all these long-haul destinations with Caravelles - certainly the first twin jets to cross the Atlantic on regular services.
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Old 30th May 2021, 21:13
  #54 (permalink)  
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Here's another airline...

Jetair - a German airline with a solitary 727-81 (D-AJAA). Lasted a couple of years 1984-86.
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Old 31st May 2021, 03:44
  #55 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Asturias56 View Post
The 727 wasn't really very suitable for European operations - whereas the 737 was perfect.

For along time you were much likelier to fly a 737 in Europe than in the USA
Why was the 727 not suitable for Europe?
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Old 31st May 2021, 07:37
  #56 (permalink)  
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Yes, exactly my question in post #9. Was it cost and high maintenance?
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Old 31st May 2021, 07:49
  #57 (permalink)  
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727 was perfectly suitable for european operations.
Ask Lufyhansa, Sabena, Air France, Iberia and Air Portugal who all had sizeable fleets.
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Old 31st May 2021, 09:21
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Originally Posted by bean View Post
727 was perfectly suitable for european operations.
Ask Lufyhansa, Sabena, Air France, Iberia and Air Portugal who all had sizeable fleets.
Alitalia too although they, like Iberia, operated a large DC9-30 fleet concurrently. At least one ex-Alitalia 727 went to Aviogenex - YU-AKM.
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Old 31st May 2021, 09:34
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Originally Posted by bean View Post
727 was perfectly suitable for European operations.
Ask Lufthansa, Sabena, Air France, Iberia and Air Portugal who all had sizeable fleets.
Indeed - Add Olympic, JAT, TAP, Icelandic, Pan Am, TWA, THY, Alitalia,
and all the North African carriers - RAM, Tunisia, Libyan, Algeria, plus Iran Air & Ariana back in the day.

All LHR & LGW regulars...
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Old 31st May 2021, 09:43
  #60 (permalink)  
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I don't ever recall seeing the TWA 727s at Heathrow - though I may have done! - but I know they operated down into the Med - presumably from Berlin? Recall one was famously hijacked.
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