Duxford - End of Flying Legends airshows
Gnome de PPRuNe
GeeRam, definitely sounds like someone talking nonsense. Not, perchance, the same person who is the Director of Visitor Experience at the NT is it? 
If you can get a B-17/DC-3 into Sywell, gets my vote. Despite my scary incident there with a Beagle Pup in 1988...
If you can get a B-17/DC-3 into Sywell, gets my vote. Despite my scary incident there with a Beagle Pup in 1988...
I can see all flying being terminated out of Duxford in the medium term and then a large part of the "redundant" airfield being put up to be sold for development.
Originally Posted by Amos Keeto
Sywell - if it can cater for 2,000 movements during the annual LAA Rally, then surely it can cope with Flying Legends.
The costs to TFC for show infrastructure that they currently don't have to think about is a lot, on top of the other stuff they will have to employ people to do.
As someone that has been involved on the fringes of large public event organisation, don't underestimate the amount of work and costs involved in taking on a LOT of more than what you've been used to doing........and still expect to not loose money.
I think the only way TFC can do this is going to an airfield where there is already an established show structure in place to piggy back off/share etc, and there's not many options there, Cosford, Biggin and Old Warden are all that I can think of. Either that or joining forces with a previous show team, that have had to stop a show and try and revive it under the Legends banner?
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St. Athan? Airfield is now civilian, relatively good communication and infrastructure.
Surprised by statement from IWM, ok, it's a war museum first, however with a large aviation content, TFC are by definition warbirds which makes the IWM statement a little contradictory.
Disagree with the 'niche' statement, run two shows, flying legends and ' generic' and compare gate receipts; difficult to understand IWM rationale on this.
Surprised by statement from IWM, ok, it's a war museum first, however with a large aviation content, TFC are by definition warbirds which makes the IWM statement a little contradictory.
Disagree with the 'niche' statement, run two shows, flying legends and ' generic' and compare gate receipts; difficult to understand IWM rationale on this.
Obviously IWM don't just want profit - they want more profit. Other organisations on the airfield will be feeling that same pressure too.
Having been in a business driven to closure by relentless hangar rent rises. The needs of an airfield owner are often outside most operations contexts and when TFC move out there won't be any real profit in whoever moves in - especially if they cancel a huge revenue event. Is the IWM being driven by a new CFO/accountant with no IWM or Duxford experience? Perhaps one who sees more profit in car parks than airfields?
Having been in a business driven to closure by relentless hangar rent rises. The needs of an airfield owner are often outside most operations contexts and when TFC move out there won't be any real profit in whoever moves in - especially if they cancel a huge revenue event. Is the IWM being driven by a new CFO/accountant with no IWM or Duxford experience? Perhaps one who sees more profit in car parks than airfields?
Sywell has always tried to engender the Aviation spirit and would be a good match 'spritually' but as others have stated, the infrastructure probably isn't there to deal with regular large crowds during the season.
Having learnt to fly at Sywell in '84, you've piqued my interest. I regularly flew BASP and AZSW which, I believe drowned itself on the IoW many moons later.
Despite my scary incident there with a Beagle Pup in 1988...
With that rather shocking statement from IWM, what price flying operations at Duxford in the long term? What price even an airfield at Duxford in the long term?
Originally Posted by Martin the Martian
With that rather shocking statement from IWM, what price flying operations at Duxford in the long term? What price even an airfield at Duxford in the long term?
If her new airshow grand plan backfires, I'm sure it will just be a case of, no point in having an active airfield anymore so we can sell of most of that empty space over there for housing, which given its location, and demand for new housing in the Cambridge area would solve a lot of IWM's financial issues in a hearbeat.
Job done from her point of view.
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I was surprised to read the statement. Flying Legends has been a world renowned event and they kill it?
Will they move it to the continent due to Brexit is a far wild guess, but I am still waiting for more details.
Just glad we went there in 2019 to see 'the last' !!!
Will they move it to the continent due to Brexit is a far wild guess, but I am still waiting for more details.
Just glad we went there in 2019 to see 'the last' !!!
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I'm not sure it pays to be too gloomy about the future of Duxford as an airfield. I believe there are plans afoot to build an aerotech campus to the South of the runway and it's coming partially because of the proximity of the airfield. Or has that been binned as well.
Originally Posted by VictorGolf
I believe there are plans afoot to build an aerotech campus to the South of the runway and it's coming partially because of the proximity of the airfield. Or has that been binned as well.
Gnome de PPRuNe
Originally Posted by clareprop
Having learnt to fly at Sywell in '84, you've piqued my interest. I regularly flew BASP and AZSW which, I believe drowned itself on the IoW many moons later.
Two guys who looked like mechanics were in it and I assume the throttle had been left open and the parking brake off when they started it. Looked like the right wing was slightly twisted and presumably the prop/engine/cowling were damaged too. Pleased to report there was no laundry bill on our part, can't comment on the state of the occupants' smalls - I imagine they may have had a no tea no biccies style interview with their manager later...
[/drift]
I think Sywell is worth another look, despite GeeRam's well made earlier comments. It has many advantages including parallel hard and grass runways, although each are only about 80% of the length of Duxford's, and it is only around 40 miles/15 minutes flying time from Duxford to allow pilots to shuttle backwards and forwards and swop aircraft. Sywell also has an active war-bird community including restoration workshops, and the airfield has very much the right "ethos" in regard to vintage aviation with for example its art-deco era clubhouse. Sywell is also located in reasonably clear airspace away from both Luton and Stansted movements.
The logistics and costs of car-parking for say 20,000 visitors, together with all the catering and toilet etc amenities required to be brought in will be more-or-less common where-ever it relocates to and hence will probably not be a critical factor in the decision. It will of curse be a critical factor in the budget.
I was Chairman of the organising committee of a large sporting event for ten years. We relocated the event at short notice (5 weeks) due to foot-and-mouth disease closing off our usual outdoor venue, to a completely new venue. Not only did we have a very short time to make the move, the move unexpectedly resulted in a three-fold increase from around 2000 to 6000 attendees. Therefore I don't underestimate how big and daunting the task is. Small beer compared to FL perhaps, but what I would say is that where there's a will, there's a way.
The logistics and costs of car-parking for say 20,000 visitors, together with all the catering and toilet etc amenities required to be brought in will be more-or-less common where-ever it relocates to and hence will probably not be a critical factor in the decision. It will of curse be a critical factor in the budget.
I was Chairman of the organising committee of a large sporting event for ten years. We relocated the event at short notice (5 weeks) due to foot-and-mouth disease closing off our usual outdoor venue, to a completely new venue. Not only did we have a very short time to make the move, the move unexpectedly resulted in a three-fold increase from around 2000 to 6000 attendees. Therefore I don't underestimate how big and daunting the task is. Small beer compared to FL perhaps, but what I would say is that where there's a will, there's a way.
Originally Posted by roger4
I think Sywell is worth another look, despite GeeRam's well made earlier comments. It has many advantages including parallel hard and grass runways, although each are only about 80% of the length of Duxford's, and it is only around 40 miles/15 minutes flying time from Duxford to allow pilots to shuttle backwards and forwards and swop aircraft. Sywell also has an active war-bird community including restoration workshops, and the airfield has very much the right "ethos" in regard to vintage aviation with for example its art-deco era clubhouse. Sywell is also located in reasonably clear airspace away from both Luton and Stansted movements.
The logistics and costs of car-parking for say 20,000 visitors, together with all the catering and toilet etc amenities required to be brought in will be more-or-less common where-ever it relocates to and hence will probably not be a critical factor in the decision. It will of curse be a critical factor in the budget.
I was Chairman of the organising committee of a large sporting event for ten years. We relocated the event at short notice (5 weeks) due to foot-and-mouth disease closing off our usual outdoor venue, to a completely new venue. Not only did we have a very short time to make the move, the move unexpectedly resulted in a three-fold increase from around 2000 to 6000 attendees. Therefore I don't underestimate how big and daunting the task is. Small beer compared to FL perhaps, but what I would say is that where there's a will, there's a way.
The logistics and costs of car-parking for say 20,000 visitors, together with all the catering and toilet etc amenities required to be brought in will be more-or-less common where-ever it relocates to and hence will probably not be a critical factor in the decision. It will of curse be a critical factor in the budget.
I was Chairman of the organising committee of a large sporting event for ten years. We relocated the event at short notice (5 weeks) due to foot-and-mouth disease closing off our usual outdoor venue, to a completely new venue. Not only did we have a very short time to make the move, the move unexpectedly resulted in a three-fold increase from around 2000 to 6000 attendees. Therefore I don't underestimate how big and daunting the task is. Small beer compared to FL perhaps, but what I would say is that where there's a will, there's a way.
Sywell also does have the benefit of much more local accommodation as well, and cheaper rates than Cambridge. There's two Premier Inn's and a Travelodge in cab distance from the airfield, as well as numerous other B&B's around the north-east of Northampton and nearby Wellingborough.
What length is OW's runway? Wikipedia reports it at 508m, which may not be accurate as this seems much shorter than I recall from visits over the last couple of years and given that they happily operate Spitfires and Hurricanes off it.
Mind you, I know the cross runway is very short, having had a close shave with the boundary hedge many moons ago in a C172 with 4 up, trying to get off grass that was longer and wetter than we appreciated - thank goodness the nosewheel hit a rabbit hole or similar and bounced us into the air......
Mind you, I know the cross runway is very short, having had a close shave with the boundary hedge many moons ago in a C172 with 4 up, trying to get off grass that was longer and wetter than we appreciated - thank goodness the nosewheel hit a rabbit hole or similar and bounced us into the air......
