Collecting and researching WW2 pilots flying logbooks
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
On logbook entries, there were of course the printed columns with date and hours etc but what one put in detail was up to the individual. Given the space, most people used just the one line with personal cryptic abbreviations. They could be read and understood by someone on the same sqn and someone familiar with the type could probably make a stab at an accurate decode.
In my case I have some that list an Exercise and a mission number, written in the assumption that the primary exercise documents would have the necessary amplifying detail.
My uncle went missing on sortie lacconically described as Searchlight Coop. Whether that meant he was acting as a practice target or was intended as the shooter if the searchlights comes a target I don't know.
In my case I have some that list an Exercise and a mission number, written in the assumption that the primary exercise documents would have the necessary amplifying detail.
My uncle went missing on sortie lacconically described as Searchlight Coop. Whether that meant he was acting as a practice target or was intended as the shooter if the searchlights comes a target I don't know.
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To (hopefully) answer some of the points made above...
My understanding is that when wartime aircrew failed to return, their possessions were collected and forwarded to a central depository, in the hope that they would return - either through escape or evasion, or as released POWs - and resume their flying. In due course, personal posessions would be returned, but logbooks seem to have been retained longer. As Simon K, points out some logbooks were eventially claimed and passed to next of kin.
Chug's calculation of the number of logbooks makes general sense, although some of the more experienced aircrew may have had more than one logbook, and the thickness of logbooks varied - the fact that later wartime ones had fewer pages is partly due to the shortage of paper, but sadly also suggests that they realised some would never be filled...
Logbooks are official documents, but not all official documents make it to the National Archives. I can only assume that the 6400 ft figure was considered too much to transfer in its entirety, and a sampling exercise would privide sufficient evvidence of the sort of things that aircrew got up to. As we know, however, every logbook is different and potentially valuable for research.
ORBs were typed in (I think) triplicate. The top copy should have gone via the Air Historical Branch to Kew, but I've seen some rather dire carbon copies, and some ORBs seem never to have made it at all. Some have remained with the units that raised them, but they are at the mercy of those who have little regard for history.
Finally, Searchlight Cooperation seems to have been more about acting as a target than being on hand to attack targets illuminated by them.
My understanding is that when wartime aircrew failed to return, their possessions were collected and forwarded to a central depository, in the hope that they would return - either through escape or evasion, or as released POWs - and resume their flying. In due course, personal posessions would be returned, but logbooks seem to have been retained longer. As Simon K, points out some logbooks were eventially claimed and passed to next of kin.
Chug's calculation of the number of logbooks makes general sense, although some of the more experienced aircrew may have had more than one logbook, and the thickness of logbooks varied - the fact that later wartime ones had fewer pages is partly due to the shortage of paper, but sadly also suggests that they realised some would never be filled...
Logbooks are official documents, but not all official documents make it to the National Archives. I can only assume that the 6400 ft figure was considered too much to transfer in its entirety, and a sampling exercise would privide sufficient evvidence of the sort of things that aircrew got up to. As we know, however, every logbook is different and potentially valuable for research.
ORBs were typed in (I think) triplicate. The top copy should have gone via the Air Historical Branch to Kew, but I've seen some rather dire carbon copies, and some ORBs seem never to have made it at all. Some have remained with the units that raised them, but they are at the mercy of those who have little regard for history.
Finally, Searchlight Cooperation seems to have been more about acting as a target than being on hand to attack targets illuminated by them.
Paxing All Over The World
The RAF Museum have a random collection of Flying Logs.
Indeed with the agreement of my mother I gave them my father's one to them.
Before he gave his books to the RAF, he had them scanned so we have both books as PDFs. His grandson who became a commercial pilot, had a copy bound into two books to replicate the originals.
Innominate, my calculations were arbitrary and rough to say the least. My own logbook exceeds half an inch, but I suspected as you say that WWII ones did not, and that entries were condensed accordingly. I take your point about those who survived long enough to fill more than one.
I remember the 60s were very much about the present and the future rather than the then grim past, and that notion permeated every walk of life. Barry Bucknell had already prepared us in panelling over any fussy Victoriana in our homes with the ubiquitous sheets of hardboard. Mouldings on doors, spindles on staircases, all vanished from view. Abbey Road called the tune and Farnborough deafened us with the efflux of ever more powerful jets. No wonder there was no place for mouldering old RAF Log Books!
RAF Colerne held part of the embryonic RAFM collection, among which were the surviving Avro 707 A and C research aircraft used for exploring the aerodynamic regime of what was to become the Vulcan. Some suit or other decided that one of them could be scrapped as one only would suffice. I see that Cosford has the C, and Manchester MSI the A, so that piece of vandalism failed. As did the complete 'redevelopment' of Manchester City Centre, because the money ran out! That is the only reason that the Midland Hotel and Central Station (now a Conference Centre) remain. Barry would not have been pleased!
I remember the 60s were very much about the present and the future rather than the then grim past, and that notion permeated every walk of life. Barry Bucknell had already prepared us in panelling over any fussy Victoriana in our homes with the ubiquitous sheets of hardboard. Mouldings on doors, spindles on staircases, all vanished from view. Abbey Road called the tune and Farnborough deafened us with the efflux of ever more powerful jets. No wonder there was no place for mouldering old RAF Log Books!
RAF Colerne held part of the embryonic RAFM collection, among which were the surviving Avro 707 A and C research aircraft used for exploring the aerodynamic regime of what was to become the Vulcan. Some suit or other decided that one of them could be scrapped as one only would suffice. I see that Cosford has the C, and Manchester MSI the A, so that piece of vandalism failed. As did the complete 'redevelopment' of Manchester City Centre, because the money ran out! That is the only reason that the Midland Hotel and Central Station (now a Conference Centre) remain. Barry would not have been pleased!
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While I can understand anger over log books, and I certainly would wish to have more of them preserved, you must realise, that tons of valuable stuff was lost forever. Gun camera films, photos of damaged and crashed aircraft, authorisation books, accident reports. This is not as painful as the loss of documents of various research bodies for example. As far as I know RN and FAA was particularly badly hit, with lots of essential documents being lost. Also army records were badly hit. I recall being told by the curator of the Sikorski Institute, that several British researchers were crawling through the records of Polish ships, and Polish army units, because they were not decimated, and had unique and essential information.
You make a good point Franek. There was a frenzy of dumping and scrapping long before the 60s. All the lease-lend kit had to be paid for or scrapped. Not a chance for the former unless it had post war use (such as DC-3s) so overboard it went (literally often, and the immense amount of left over ordnance certainly did). The contents of Bletchley Park were destroyed on Churchill's direct order, the exceptions going to Cheltenham for Cold War purposes. Lesser kit filled the ubiquitous Government Surplus stores in every town for many years.
I suppose though that log books hit a particular nerve here. We all know the effort and sheer slog that went into filling our own. That some apparatchik should take it upon themselves to consign all that service, all that record of duty done, all that history, to the flames simply because of the shelf space it occupied is painful for any aircrew concerned with our heritage.
That is why the personal testimony of those who served is so important. The aircraft they flew are long gone, the records of their war are often gone, but their memories remain with them, or those they have entrusted with their stories. Threads like this one and the History Forum's Gaining an RAF Pilots Brevet in WWII are valuable and historic records in their own right. History is greatly served by those who have thus contributed to them. As Danny42C so often reminds us, time is not on our side:-
Gaining An R.A.F Pilots Brevet In WW II
I suppose though that log books hit a particular nerve here. We all know the effort and sheer slog that went into filling our own. That some apparatchik should take it upon themselves to consign all that service, all that record of duty done, all that history, to the flames simply because of the shelf space it occupied is painful for any aircrew concerned with our heritage.
That is why the personal testimony of those who served is so important. The aircraft they flew are long gone, the records of their war are often gone, but their memories remain with them, or those they have entrusted with their stories. Threads like this one and the History Forum's Gaining an RAF Pilots Brevet in WWII are valuable and historic records in their own right. History is greatly served by those who have thus contributed to them. As Danny42C so often reminds us, time is not on our side:-
Gaining An R.A.F Pilots Brevet In WW II
Last edited by Chugalug2; 29th Sep 2018 at 09:30. Reason: Broken link
Have used the RAFM log book collection for research many times: all are very well catalogued, so for researchers they are a boon. I can find nothing to criticise and I'd advise against associating the RAFM display daftness with the way collections and donations are (very respectfully) dealt with.
I have spent some time helping friends decode the abbreviations in their fathers' wartime record of service (some of the abbreviations are pretty obscure) and then filling in the gaps with photos of aircraft types an explaining what some of the information implies. One I helped with included a time on 192 Sqn Washington's post war, during which tour he was awarded an AFC to his wartime DFC . Friend's dad was only pilot other than the OC for that period mentioned in "Listening In" so a bit of cross referencing, dates etc and concluded he had been involved in Suez ELINT. Another friend showed me his Grandfather's log book, stamped "Killed in Action". He was Wg Cdr Hugh Malcolm's observer when he was shot down and killed on the operation that earned Malcolm his posthumous VC. I was able to send him a link to a video of the Blenheim being air tested at Duxford, filmed from the observer's seat. he was delighted.
In some respects, I have a poor opinion of the RAF Museum, certainly the one at Hendon - or at least of some of their representatives. They used to have an animated illustration on their website to show how an aeroplane's controls work - with the ailerons operating arse-about-face! Very offhand attitude when I drew this to their attention. Eventually, instead of getting it corrected, they just removed it. They used to dish out flyers at the museum with line drawing illustrations on the front of a Hurricane and a Spitfire - with the colours of the British military fin flash reversed! Again, drew it to their attention but they didn't see it as an embarrassing blunder - couldn't be bothered to withdraw it and hold someone accountable because they had already printed so many.
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I suggested that rather than let kids thrash the controls in the Jet Provost they might get a volunteer a few times a day to explain the control to kids, of all ages. I sat in the thing for nostalgic reasons one day and ended up with quite a little audience so I hoped I did some good. Would volunteer myself but bit of a long drive in. Never got a reply to my suggestion. Ditto that part of background to the "Blitz" display they might plat part of Ernest Lough recording of "Oh for the Wings of a Dove" as he was with the National Fire Service at City Temple (where he made the recording) when it was bombed, on the same crew as my Dad. no response to that either.
