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Dam Buster Training & Raid Routes

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Dam Buster Training & Raid Routes

Old 2nd Dec 2018, 04:02
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Originally Posted by Pontius Navigator View Post
An interesting pov. Would there be enough money in a pure documentary to do the subject justice?

They shall not grow only wasn't made as a big feature film but has certainly been well received. The difference between that film and a DB documentary is the lack of sufficient contemporary film.
I'm trying to imagine what 'facts' have been held secret beyond those that had already been released (such as the actual specs for the weapon) decades ago. The statements that the original was 'romanticized' and he purchased the rights to previously declassified information bothers me in terms of what to expect from the next version. If there is much more to the story, I do hope it is told in a docu-drama mode, which from my perspective, I believe the original film was actually very close to. Incredibly popular here.- a historical drama (though a compressed time-frame of events was unavoidable, and deliberate story line stretches were made to make Gibson's character more appealing). What I've found profoundly compelling since are the surviving crew interviews, most of whom have since passed on - Les Munro, Johnnie Johnson, and particularly Ken Brown.

I've been watching the original film in the US since it was first broadcast on TV in the 1960s (and yes the dog's name was faithfully true for a long long time). At one point, the broadcast stations changed the name to Trigger. Dam Busters was one of the first VHS tapes sold when VHS players first hit the market - I was astonished to see it on the store shelf in the late 70's. I still have my original. Dog's name is accurate on the VHS as well as the subsequent DVD. I'll also say that I watched the movie on Turner some months back and the showing was faithful to original production.
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Old 2nd Dec 2018, 17:56
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Then there was the incident where "Gibson" waving "chocks away" had to be reshot because Todd's face was partly obscured by a mic.tel.lead. (Not surprising since he was wearing his headset back to front ).
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Old 2nd Dec 2018, 21:58
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And there was I thinking I was unique because I'd gone over the dam at head-height, but of course I wasn't because I'd walked over the dam with my family on a day trip out to visit this memorable landmark whilst stationed at JHQ Rheindahlen.


Photo taken at the time (summer 1973) with no obvious signs of damage caused during the raid.
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Old 3rd Dec 2018, 17:35
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b1Lanc, I think you are right about the declassified material that was omitted from the original film. I think there were two aspects. One was the spin rotation and the other concerned the potential for High Ball to be used against ships.

In a more recent documentary they dealt a problem with the explosive filling. It had to be evenly distributed one the cylinder, ie balanced. I think that was something omitted from the reason for early failures.
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Old 6th Dec 2018, 01:22
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Originally Posted by Pontius Navigator View Post
b1Lanc, I think you are right about the declassified material that was omitted from the original film. I think there were two aspects. One was the spin rotation and the other concerned the potential for High Ball to be used against ships.

In a more recent documentary they dealt a problem with the explosive filling. It had to be evenly distributed one the cylinder, ie balanced. I think that was something omitted from the reason for early failures.
It was interesting to see the mine shown in the movie vice what it really looked like - a cylinder for Upkeep. I first saw the real one on a model in a hobby shop in the 70's after Upkeep was declassified and thought boy did they get that wrong. If I recall the smaller Highball dropped initially from the Wimpy and Mossies were just about what the movie portrayed as the original Upkeep. I forget who, but one of the surviving crewmembers recalled in a video that the plane shook like mad once the rotation began.

Interesting 2017 story in the Sun, with some pictures, of attempts to raise a couple of Highballs this last year. Don't know if they ever did.

https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/new...ary-next-year/
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Old 6th Dec 2018, 07:32
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Highballs were that shape because of the rubberised 'jacket' allowing it to be dropped on land without detonating prematurely.
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Old 6th Dec 2018, 13:07
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The original "Upkeep" bomb was externally spherical as desired by Barnes Wallis ,the cylindrical steel cylinder being faired by wood into a sphere. Examples were dropped three times between April 16th and 22nd 1943 by ED 365 off Reculver. Each time the fairing disintegrated on contact with water. It was then dispensed with and a successful drop with the steel "core" achieved on April 29th. The extended development history of the smaller , Mosquito borne, spherical " Highball " ended shortly after the end of the war .
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Old 6th Dec 2018, 16:15
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But Highball could bounce over anti-torpedo nets. Whilst we still development there remained the risk that its design could be used against us - viz Pearl Harbour.
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Old 6th Dec 2018, 16:22
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Originally Posted by Warmtoast View Post
The new “The Dambusters” is taking a long time to get airborne as BBC reported way back in 2011
Wouldn't renaming the dog 'Digger p*** off the Ozzies?
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Old 9th Dec 2018, 00:06
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Just perusing Amazon and came across "Enemy Coast Ahead" Uncensored published 2006. Has anyone read that version? I have the hard copy of the original which I bought decades ago. Curious what other information might have been censored.
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Old 9th Dec 2018, 08:29
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Wouldn't renaming the dog 'Digger p*** off the Ozzies?
Possibly, but it would certainly upset those in headquarters, who were expecting "N*gger". "Are you sure you copied that correctly, Smith?"
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Old 9th Dec 2018, 08:29
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Originally Posted by b1lanc View Post
Just perusing Amazon and came across "Enemy Coast Ahead" Uncensored published 2006. Has anyone read that version? I have the hard copy of the original which I bought decades ago. Curious what other information might have been censored.
The story that whilst on his honeymoon, the pub they were staying in fried his smoked salmon.
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Old 16th Dec 2018, 16:25
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In Tasmania in 1998 I met an Englishmen, Ray Rhodes, who said he was a Lancaster pilot with 617 SQN at the time of the Dam's raid. He said his nav, his best mate, was Nick, who was killed as a result of flying through heavy flak.

Was Ray telling the truth? Or did he lie to me?

Frying the smoked salmon? Hilarious. As good as the batman who polished his colonel's small change as he did not have time to do the fiddly bits on the Sam Brown and other items of uniform. (The aim was to distract his boss at the time of his getting dressed. "My God! He's polished my coins.")
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