Spitfires found in Burma
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Surrey Hills
Posts: 1,478
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: london
Posts: 285
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Aircraft Graveyards
Further to the link showing the huge numbers of war surplus a/c in the States awaiting disposal - the 1946 film 'The Best Years of our Lives' sometimes comes around - starring Dana Andrews as former B17
aircrew - newly demobbed and disillusioned with civilian life - finds himself
wandering amongst such an airfield giving realisation into just how
huge were the numbers of a/c scrapped on just one of the many US airfields given over to such disposals.
...
aircrew - newly demobbed and disillusioned with civilian life - finds himself
wandering amongst such an airfield giving realisation into just how
huge were the numbers of a/c scrapped on just one of the many US airfields given over to such disposals.
...
Cunning Artificer
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: The spiritual home of DeHavilland
Age: 76
Posts: 3,127
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"Demolished" - now that's a good word.
When we left the Far East we had a few obsolete aircraft for disposal. At Changi the Meteors of 1574 TFF were offered to the RSAF as ground instructional airframes. They declined the offer and the meat boxes were demolished on site - the normal method of disposing of military assets left behind during a withdrawal. We smashed up and burned lots of good serviceable materials at the time.
The vast Spitfire website shows the disposal of all Spitfires ever built, including those in SEAC, with many transferred to the Indian and Burmese governments in 1945. One would imagine therefore, that any offers that were not taken up would have been"demolished" on-site in the traditional manner.
I still can't accept that any RAF unit would go to the trouble of digging a big enough hole to bury an entire squadron of large crated aircraft, still in serviceable condition, when a few cans of petrol and a crew of airmen armed with hammers and such could render the entire lot BER in half the time.
When we left the Far East we had a few obsolete aircraft for disposal. At Changi the Meteors of 1574 TFF were offered to the RSAF as ground instructional airframes. They declined the offer and the meat boxes were demolished on site - the normal method of disposing of military assets left behind during a withdrawal. We smashed up and burned lots of good serviceable materials at the time.
The vast Spitfire website shows the disposal of all Spitfires ever built, including those in SEAC, with many transferred to the Indian and Burmese governments in 1945. One would imagine therefore, that any offers that were not taken up would have been"demolished" on-site in the traditional manner.
I still can't accept that any RAF unit would go to the trouble of digging a big enough hole to bury an entire squadron of large crated aircraft, still in serviceable condition, when a few cans of petrol and a crew of airmen armed with hammers and such could render the entire lot BER in half the time.
Paxing All Over The World
... could render the entire lot BER in half the time...
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: UK
Posts: 130
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Blacksheep.
Quote:-
"....with many transferred to the Indian and Burmese governments in 1945."
I think you would find it very difficult to support that with facts.
Transfers to the Indian Air Force in 1947...yes.
Transfers to Burma 1945..no. Just three Mk XVIII's ex 60 Sqn in April 1948.
Quote:-
"....with many transferred to the Indian and Burmese governments in 1945."
I think you would find it very difficult to support that with facts.
Transfers to the Indian Air Force in 1947...yes.
Transfers to Burma 1945..no. Just three Mk XVIII's ex 60 Sqn in April 1948.
Last edited by Mark22; 17th Dec 2012 at 21:24.
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: UK
Posts: 2,584
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well well, so all these years I've been under the illusion that post-war disposal was to get rid of surplus inventory and recycle valuable metals when all along it was to keep them out of the hands of the - wait or it - Israelis! Incredible!
And to think we wasted all that effort by then wilfully selling them 60 odd Spitfires.
Bloody silly, that...
Uh?
And to think we wasted all that effort by then wilfully selling them 60 odd Spitfires.
Bloody silly, that...
Uh?
From todays AvWeb USA.....
"
SPITFIRES' EXCAVATION DATE SET
The long-anticipated dig to unearth a cache of brand-new Spitfires that are believed to be buried in Burma is expected to start on Jan. 12, local press has reported. According to The Irrawaddy, archeologists first will spend about a week studying the site, then the digging can begin. Up to 36 pristine Spitfires, still in the packing crates they were delivered in near the end of World War II, are expected to be found. David Cundall, who located the burial site, said he has confirmed the airplanes are there by sending a camera through a borehole. "We went into a crate, you can see an object which resembles a Spitfire," he said."
Getting nearer the truth of the matter...??
Cheers
"
SPITFIRES' EXCAVATION DATE SET
The long-anticipated dig to unearth a cache of brand-new Spitfires that are believed to be buried in Burma is expected to start on Jan. 12, local press has reported. According to The Irrawaddy, archeologists first will spend about a week studying the site, then the digging can begin. Up to 36 pristine Spitfires, still in the packing crates they were delivered in near the end of World War II, are expected to be found. David Cundall, who located the burial site, said he has confirmed the airplanes are there by sending a camera through a borehole. "We went into a crate, you can see an object which resembles a Spitfire," he said."
Getting nearer the truth of the matter...??
Cheers
Join Date: May 2005
Location: uk
Posts: 88
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
.
I don't know if they are there, or if they are not there - but I'm prepared to keep an open mind until/unless I see some evidence.
I do know one thing. IF they are there, there are going to be a few people on here eating some substantial portions of humble pie!!!
Either way, we should know quite soon. Like almost everyone else on here I suspect, the romantic in me hopes they are real.
I don't know if they are there, or if they are not there - but I'm prepared to keep an open mind until/unless I see some evidence.
I do know one thing. IF they are there, there are going to be a few people on here eating some substantial portions of humble pie!!!
Either way, we should know quite soon. Like almost everyone else on here I suspect, the romantic in me hopes they are real.
I really hope they are there.
But - if they have sent in a camera through a bore hole - these days we could have already seen the vid on You Tube; unless of course there is an agreement with a TV company or such for exclusivity which would be understandable.
I'm hoping but I'm not confident.
But - if they have sent in a camera through a bore hole - these days we could have already seen the vid on You Tube; unless of course there is an agreement with a TV company or such for exclusivity which would be understandable.
I'm hoping but I'm not confident.
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: UK
Posts: 2,584
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Bookies...now there's another bizarre aspect of delusional human behaviour that's not too dissimilar to this buried treasure lark. The ability of people to firmly believe in something that they are told is quantifiably unlikely to happen in the specific instance (winning a bet on given odds) and statistically impossible to win on long term (beating the bookies) is contrary to all logic.
Just like believing in aircraft surviving 70 years in matchwood boxes under 30ft of waterlogged tropical earth when all the evidence indicates they were never there in the first place.
Just because something seems like a nice idea is a pretty poor reason to state a belief in it, that is very confused and wooly thinking, not that this stops people being religious, betting or believing in intact buried Spitfires. I suppose it is just a human trait.
And yes, if they find them I'll be the first in the queue for a huge helping of humble pie. As I will when they prove the existence of God, the resurrection or virgin birth which - on my reckoning, are all on similar odds to finding those Spitfires.
However, quid pro quo, I'll expect the supporters of the myth (and especially the principals of the organisation promoting it) to do the same when it's proved they don't exist or they just find scrap.
I'm sure they'll do that...
Won't they?
Just like believing in aircraft surviving 70 years in matchwood boxes under 30ft of waterlogged tropical earth when all the evidence indicates they were never there in the first place.
Just because something seems like a nice idea is a pretty poor reason to state a belief in it, that is very confused and wooly thinking, not that this stops people being religious, betting or believing in intact buried Spitfires. I suppose it is just a human trait.
And yes, if they find them I'll be the first in the queue for a huge helping of humble pie. As I will when they prove the existence of God, the resurrection or virgin birth which - on my reckoning, are all on similar odds to finding those Spitfires.
However, quid pro quo, I'll expect the supporters of the myth (and especially the principals of the organisation promoting it) to do the same when it's proved they don't exist or they just find scrap.
I'm sure they'll do that...
Won't they?
Last edited by Agaricus bisporus; 28th Dec 2012 at 13:35.
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Whitby, North Yorkshire
Age: 38
Posts: 129
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well im sure we'll get some words from them.
I go back to my earlier post where I mentioned why would anyone drill a hole in this box, so water and mud and allsorts of nasties can get into the box and wreck the 'treasure' especially when it would be left like that for a few months untill the dig starts.
Im open minded as far as this goes, I hope they find something, although looking at the arguments against, it wouldn't surprise me if they found nothing.
Time will tell.
I go back to my earlier post where I mentioned why would anyone drill a hole in this box, so water and mud and allsorts of nasties can get into the box and wreck the 'treasure' especially when it would be left like that for a few months untill the dig starts.
Im open minded as far as this goes, I hope they find something, although looking at the arguments against, it wouldn't surprise me if they found nothing.
Time will tell.
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: UK
Posts: 130
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If there are Spitfires there they are likely to be distorted/crushed and substantially corroded in my view.
That said, they would still yield a large cache of expensive componentry, fittings and a provenance serial to make a restoration to flight a practical proposition in this day and age....and be valued accordingly.
Over fifteen years monitoring this saga I have swung from pessimism to optimism as the little parts of the jig saw have gradually fitted together...and ignoring all the 'tosh' in the papers.
Should David Cundall and his sponsors not have been able to meet the substantial financial requirements of the Myanmar Government to undertake this venture at least two other independent parties, one from Israel and one from the UK were right up there ready to step in.
Time will tell.
That said, they would still yield a large cache of expensive componentry, fittings and a provenance serial to make a restoration to flight a practical proposition in this day and age....and be valued accordingly.
Over fifteen years monitoring this saga I have swung from pessimism to optimism as the little parts of the jig saw have gradually fitted together...and ignoring all the 'tosh' in the papers.
Should David Cundall and his sponsors not have been able to meet the substantial financial requirements of the Myanmar Government to undertake this venture at least two other independent parties, one from Israel and one from the UK were right up there ready to step in.
Time will tell.
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: UK
Posts: 2,584
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
drill a hole in this box, so water and mud and allsorts of nasties can get into the box and wreck the 'treasure' especially when it would be left like that for a few months untill the dig starts.
Buddy, RAF crates were made of matchwood. Wooden packing cases. They were barely weather proof, no way waterproof. You talk as though they were hermetically sealed and rot proof. They were not. If you think drilling a hole would let nasties in that would do damage in a few months you have answered the problem. They would have been wrecked within months of being buried. 70 years ago. 1945 apparently. The cases would have filled with water and mud as soon as the first monsoon occurred. The data plates would probably survive but that's a long way from the 30/40/70/120 (even the so called "experts" can't seem to agree) intact aircraft which is the claim.
The notion that those crates were, a) waterproof, b) rot proof and c) strong enough to take the hundreds of tons of earth on top of them at 30 ft depth are all such pie in the sky fantasies it beggars belief that anyone actually believes them. Let alone the fantasy that anyone could/would bother to dig a hole large - effing gigantic - enough for all those huge boxes without such a mammoth engineering exercise being known about when a few gallons of petrol would have achieved the same end in half an hour.
Dreamland. Utter fantasy.
Agaricus bisporus,
Starting with minimal knowledge, and having read this entire thread in order to try and understand more about the project, I'm wondering if "...thou doth protest too much"? The heat of debate is so marked that it's tempting to indulge in some lateral thinking.
If I had a significant investment in a Spitfire, the prospect of the world fleet suddenly doubling (say) would be a worry. If it happened to be in one or more of dozens that were eventually recovered in salvageable condition from a lifetime underground, it might be politic to let it be known that, due to the ravages of the elements, any renovation work would produce barely a handful of airframes, and at almost prohibitive cost.
According to the same argument, should the recovery of the crates be followed by statements that the contents are in a parlous state, one might listen with some reservation. After all, Spitfires for sale are like diamonds, if somewhat more work-intensive.
Starting with minimal knowledge, and having read this entire thread in order to try and understand more about the project, I'm wondering if "...thou doth protest too much"? The heat of debate is so marked that it's tempting to indulge in some lateral thinking.
If I had a significant investment in a Spitfire, the prospect of the world fleet suddenly doubling (say) would be a worry. If it happened to be in one or more of dozens that were eventually recovered in salvageable condition from a lifetime underground, it might be politic to let it be known that, due to the ravages of the elements, any renovation work would produce barely a handful of airframes, and at almost prohibitive cost.
According to the same argument, should the recovery of the crates be followed by statements that the contents are in a parlous state, one might listen with some reservation. After all, Spitfires for sale are like diamonds, if somewhat more work-intensive.
Last edited by Chris Scott; 28th Dec 2012 at 19:09.
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Whitby, North Yorkshire
Age: 38
Posts: 129
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
In two weeks, aviation archaeologists will start working to unearth what they expect will be as many as 36 new-in-the-box Supermarine Spitfires. British warbird researcher David Cundall believes the fighters were buried in crates near the end of World War II in Burma, now Myanmar. He worked for years to locate the cache, and earlier this year secured the rights to dig up the aircraft.
Cundall said that a camera in a hole bored into the site reveals “an object that resembles a Spitfire.” He said the crates were sealed with tar and supported by teak timbers. British troops also placed a protective covering over the crates to help prevent water seepage, he said. The crates are thought to be buried about 30 feet underground alongside a runway at the Mingaladon Airport.
Just why they would take the extreme measures to preserve so many of the Griffon-engined fighters is subject to some controversy. Some say it was to preserve them for later sale. Also, if there are, in fact, three dozen pristine Spitfires to be found, the effect on market price for the aircraft will be interesting to watch. Whatever the outcome, the waiting will soon be over, as work begins on January 12.
If the crates are sealed with tar then surely there's a good chance of them being dry....
Cundall said that a camera in a hole bored into the site reveals “an object that resembles a Spitfire.” He said the crates were sealed with tar and supported by teak timbers. British troops also placed a protective covering over the crates to help prevent water seepage, he said. The crates are thought to be buried about 30 feet underground alongside a runway at the Mingaladon Airport.
Just why they would take the extreme measures to preserve so many of the Griffon-engined fighters is subject to some controversy. Some say it was to preserve them for later sale. Also, if there are, in fact, three dozen pristine Spitfires to be found, the effect on market price for the aircraft will be interesting to watch. Whatever the outcome, the waiting will soon be over, as work begins on January 12.
If the crates are sealed with tar then surely there's a good chance of them being dry....