Spitfires found in Burma
The first proposed name for the Spitfire was Shrew!
Names and Planes
I suspect that the reason the Lancaster was not called the 'Manchester Mk 2' was due to the former machines history (engine issues) and consequent wish to forget it.
The name only becomes an issue when/if a particular aircraft achieves notoriety,one way or another.
Nowadays we would call it 'Branding' and someone would have spent considerable time and money researching the effect;however in the real world of fighting aircraft the actual reputation will always be the key to how it is seen by the public 'at the time';the name will then assume a fond memory 'or otherwise'.
The name only becomes an issue when/if a particular aircraft achieves notoriety,one way or another.
Nowadays we would call it 'Branding' and someone would have spent considerable time and money researching the effect;however in the real world of fighting aircraft the actual reputation will always be the key to how it is seen by the public 'at the time';the name will then assume a fond memory 'or otherwise'.
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I suspect that the reason the Lancaster was not called the 'Manchester Mk 2' was due to the former machines history (engine issues) and consequent wish to forget it.
Paxing All Over The World
It is indeed branding, hence Boeing coining Dreamliner and pushing the name to the hilt - unfortunately, many people now know that the D. has problems rather than the 787!
The P-38 and P-51 are not known by those numbers but as Lightning and Mustang.
The P-38 and P-51 are not known by those numbers but as Lightning and Mustang.
The P-38 and P-51 are not known by those numbers but as Lightning and Mustang.
Last edited by Groundloop; 23rd Jan 2013 at 08:55.
The P-38 and P-51 are not known by those numbers but as Lightning and Mustang.
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As for the now mysteriously missing Spitfires in Burma. There must have been some evidence otherwise so many people wouldn't have come on board.
That list also shows many crated Spitfires being returned to UK at the end of the war and in addition lists the disposal of many that were transferred to the Indian Air Force and the Burmese Air Force. Aircraft could be and would be written off charge in many ways. The list naturally shows many aircraft being disposed of as ROC, some of them in Burma, but until they had been signed for by the operating squadron they would have remained firmly "On Inventory". The records would certainly have shown a whole squadron of crated Spitfires being sent by ship to Rangoon, with even the ship's name recorded - but the records don't show any such shipment. So, where would they have come from?
Paxing All Over The World
Fareastdriver
I have no doubt but I should have reiterated that, in this topic of legacy names, I was referring to the general public and meedja perception. I'll leave the subject now!
Maybe in the UK they are but USAAF pilots I know who who spent most of their time in the Pacific called their Lightnings P38s and their associates called their Mustangs P51s.
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Burying a Lanc would be challenging, never mind digging it up.
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Burying a Lanc would be challenging, never mind digging it up.
Last edited by nacluv; 24th Jan 2013 at 09:08.
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You'd have to be living in cloud cuckoo land to believe that. Oh - wait...
Lancaster bombers buried at Elsham mystery resurfaces after Spitfires found in Far East | This is Scunthorpe
Last edited by WaspJunior; 24th Jan 2013 at 15:37.
No success in Burma, but "Aussie Diggers" triumph!
Uncovered today was a buried Spitfire - possibly a Mk1A?
And a Japanese Zero?
And it's only lunchtime!
Experts are yet to examine the remains. I'll keep you posted on any further discoveries.
Cheers
Uncovered today was a buried Spitfire - possibly a Mk1A?
And a Japanese Zero?
And it's only lunchtime!
Experts are yet to examine the remains. I'll keep you posted on any further discoveries.
Cheers
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Noyade
You are not far wrong.
More chance of finding bits and pieces of Spitfires
in northern Australia. As well as Jap and US planes.
I think one Spitfire skeleton is still visible at low tide
in the NT. If not a Spitfire it is a WWII plane.
I know pieces of spit exist at a few of the airstrips
as their is heaps of other junk like B24 engines et al.
Here is part of one
http://www.ozatwar.com/ozcrashes/nt115b.jpg
You are not far wrong.
More chance of finding bits and pieces of Spitfires
in northern Australia. As well as Jap and US planes.
I think one Spitfire skeleton is still visible at low tide
in the NT. If not a Spitfire it is a WWII plane.
I know pieces of spit exist at a few of the airstrips
as their is heaps of other junk like B24 engines et al.
Here is part of one
http://www.ozatwar.com/ozcrashes/nt115b.jpg
Last edited by 500N; 25th Jan 2013 at 01:27.
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Let's clear up some of the myths.
According to the Telegraph Cundall claims that Castle Bromwich built Mk XIV's were shipped to Rangoon, arriving in August 1945. It also claimed that a significant number of Mk XIV's were SOC on the same date in August 1945.
FACT: Mk XIV's were all built under Air Ministry order Air/1877 by Supermarine themselves. Castle Bromwich didn't build any Mk XIV's
FACT: There are no records of Mk XIV's being shipped to Rangoon. There are records of Mk XIV's being shipped to India [where presumably they were assembled and ferried to their final destination]. The records of some of those MK XIV's showing being attached to ACSEA [Air Command South-East Asia] . More Mk XIV's don't appear to have gone further than India, with many being SOC in 1946/7 [Partition time, when the Brit's got out of India, so perhaps although shown SOC, they stayed with the Indian Air Force?]
There are no records showing Mk XIV's being SOC in August 1945.
*****************
Why bury brand new aircraft in 1945? - The RAF were still operating Spits in Japan and Malaya in 1946/7. Furthermore, records show another ship delivery to India in October 1945.
Yes, the 'witnesses' may have seen crates being buried, and yes, they may have been told that they contained Spits [on the good old 'Send three and fourpence, I'm going to a dance' principle.] Unless anyone actually opened a crate & took a gander inside, there's no telling what was inside. [Knowing some of the supply snafus, I expect someone had despatched crates of Arctic clothing to Burma, so Yes, bury it quick!]
According to the Telegraph Cundall claims that Castle Bromwich built Mk XIV's were shipped to Rangoon, arriving in August 1945. It also claimed that a significant number of Mk XIV's were SOC on the same date in August 1945.
FACT: Mk XIV's were all built under Air Ministry order Air/1877 by Supermarine themselves. Castle Bromwich didn't build any Mk XIV's
FACT: There are no records of Mk XIV's being shipped to Rangoon. There are records of Mk XIV's being shipped to India [where presumably they were assembled and ferried to their final destination]. The records of some of those MK XIV's showing being attached to ACSEA [Air Command South-East Asia] . More Mk XIV's don't appear to have gone further than India, with many being SOC in 1946/7 [Partition time, when the Brit's got out of India, so perhaps although shown SOC, they stayed with the Indian Air Force?]
There are no records showing Mk XIV's being SOC in August 1945.
*****************
Why bury brand new aircraft in 1945? - The RAF were still operating Spits in Japan and Malaya in 1946/7. Furthermore, records show another ship delivery to India in October 1945.
Yes, the 'witnesses' may have seen crates being buried, and yes, they may have been told that they contained Spits [on the good old 'Send three and fourpence, I'm going to a dance' principle.] Unless anyone actually opened a crate & took a gander inside, there's no telling what was inside. [Knowing some of the supply snafus, I expect someone had despatched crates of Arctic clothing to Burma, so Yes, bury it quick!]