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All ex Buccaneer Pilots we need your help, Beware Big Pics

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All ex Buccaneer Pilots we need your help, Beware Big Pics

Old 7th Jan 2010, 07:26
  #41 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 760
But I would just say, why don't they ask the people who built the originals for a copy of their drawings or direct access to the individuals who built them - they both still exist although the latter are probably in their late 70s now.

All you ever get on here is opinion whereas the manufacturers would provide fact.

Just another thought!

foldingwings is offline  
Old 7th Jan 2010, 11:33
  #42 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Gatport Airwick
Posts: 132
Assuming that the S1 wing hinges are the same/similar the front hinge and lock pins looks a little "lightweight". The picture below of an S1 shows the wing break clearly and the various attachments.

P Mills
Gatwick Aviation Museum - Charlwood
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Old 7th Jan 2010, 12:53
  #43 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Sheffield
Posts: 927
we know who Mr Song is

Oh good

This saga really is quite comical but maybe it's best left for the modelling forums. I rather thought (or hoped) that PPRuNe was a forum for serious discussions!
Tim McLelland is offline  
Old 7th Jan 2010, 13:07
  #44 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 6
Comical in the sense of watching you get banned from multiple forums in turn?

The reason no-one on the modelling forums believed you is that you managed (over a course of a number of months/years) to piddle away any personal credibility you may have had over there.

So when a number of members with significant personal credibility (who are know to be helping model makers, outside of Mr S's threads) vouch for someone, your evidence-less assertion that that person is false didn't carry much weight...

Funny that...
Discus_296 is offline  
Old 7th Jan 2010, 14:19
  #45 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: bristol
Age: 51
Posts: 1,053
Even thought the detail shown in your pics is very good, will the kits have any etched parts in them (I have to admit not having built a model from this company). The seat harnesses looked good, and would be easier than making my own from foil from the top of a wine bottle!
barnstormer1968 is offline  
Old 7th Jan 2010, 16:42
  #46 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 157

this thread seems to have enough of your attention seeing as you don't do nonsense - or are you cracking?
rolandpull is offline  
Old 7th Jan 2010, 16:55
  #47 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 6
But then you're making the mistake of thinking that I would care what a bunch of random fools on model-building forums might think - which of course I do not.

Then why have you been banned from one site at least 4 times because of incessant trolling? That's a lot of effort who doesn't "care what a bunch of random fools on model-building forums might think"

All I do is occasionally point-out nonsense when I see it

Now where I come from you're particular brand is just called trolling

Modelling forums seem to be a haven for schoolboy nonsense

Also known as social iteraction... Try it sometime....

they inevitably get upset when you tell them something they don't want to hear

No... They get upset when you start attempting to destroy the reputation of new members who may/may not be part of a manufacturer, without evidence... Funny that.....

Like I keep saying, if anyone seriously believes this ludicrous notion that Trumpeter has embarked upon some sort of direct dialogue with random people on modelling forums, then I think some people need psychiatric help.
I mean, what are they seriously imagining? Do they think that Trumpeter is going to seek their advice or something? It's quite hilarious.

They have already done so (prior to Mr S). I believe it was the Trumpeter Hellcat that was recalled after forum outcry and the resulting cancelling of pre-orders put pressure on the distributors and they refused to take the kit! That kit was re-worked in conjunction with at least one well known modeller/website owner. Following on from that it would be daft not to look at/communicate with the forums. What's the saying, "Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me"?

I'm not in a position to personally vouch for or call BS on Mr S, but I fail to see why it's such an unlikely move? In a market that is essentially a bunch of people doing their stuff individually behind closed doors, forums would seem a good place (if not the only place) to listen to your customers, or a reasonable sized section of them anyway.

how come he's unwilling (or incapable) of answering even a simple question as to what scale the kit is?

Even without having mystic mind reading, there are many possible reasons; it hasn't been decided, he isn't allowed to say, he may even not *want* to say (he's not a walking press release, he is allowed to be a little "less than proffessional"). I honestly don't know, but there are multiple perfectly plausible reasons... Maybe he just doesn't like you...

The modelling sites are naturally welcome to wrap themselves in a silly frenzy over a piece of plastic

So are you really modeller? Or do you just troll there for fun? I don't recall seeing your work posted anywhere.... I recall you were surprised people weren't whipped up into a complete frenzy about a recent large Tamiya release, bemoaning the excitement about an Airfix release... Breathe it in.... That's the smell of hypocrisy right there...

You are obviously a pretty knowledgeable guy, I quite like your recent Lightning book and have a copy on my shelves at home, it's just a shame you seem to feel the need to aptly demonstrate a complete lack of social awareness and judgement....

All I'm doing is pointing-out nonsense when I see it....

Last edited by Discus_296; 7th Jan 2010 at 16:57. Reason: SPG
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Old 7th Jan 2010, 18:14
  #48 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Hertfordshire
Age: 52
Posts: 751
But I would just say, why don't they ask the people who built the originals for a copy of their drawings or direct access to the individuals who built them - they both still exist although the latter are probably in their late 70s now.

All you ever get on here is opinion whereas the manufacturers would provide fact.

Just another thought!

You would like to think so Foldie, However having actually tried to get my hands on a set of blueprints of a piece of kit from the manufacturer in question I can tell you that it is not as straightforward as you would think. Yes the company in question does have a heritage department who do hold blueprints. But their policy is to only release them to organisations doing full size restorations, that are of course if the blueprints have not been put in a skip. Secondly they normally want more than a few pennies in payment.

Last edited by MAINJAFAD; 7th Jan 2010 at 18:38.
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Old 7th Jan 2010, 18:16
  #49 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: the dark side
Posts: 915
I doubt TM is an active modeller with this statement
If it is 48th scale then it will merely duplicate the kit which Airfix has been producing for years. Admittedly it looks much better in terms of quality and detail but it will inevitably cost 2-3 times the price of the Airfix kit, so it will hardly be worth it.

otherwise he'd realise that the Airfix version currently isn't available. Also he'd realise that to get the Airfix version to the quality of this one, assuming it's 1/48th he'd need to buy aftermarket products, which would push the price up by three or four times the price he paid for the kit. Then there's the time and skill required to fit them, rarely an easy task. The tooling on the Buc appears extraordinary, the separate wiring looms, fluid pipes and ducting are a quantam step forward if that is what will be available in the kit.

For the record manufacturers do look at fora and can detect the BS merchants, 'foamers' and armchair modellers. Just on this forum alone Trumpeter have three pages of unofficial advertising, Mr Song, who's name I came across on a modelling forum at least four years ago, connected to Trumpeter, will no doubt be sitting 'grasshopper' styley smiling at those shouting, 'I'll fire aimlessly if you don't come out' ...

Foldie see post #16 for why manufacturers drawings don't tell the full story
jumpseater is offline  
Old 7th Jan 2010, 19:24
  #50 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: In the ACR
Posts: 5
I contacted the Fleet Air Arm Buccaneer Association and got this reply

"From my recollection the wingtips were extended in about 1970 (800 Sqdn) to improve handling, but this led to a problem in 1980 when the RAF retired one at Nellis during Red Flag. After this several Mods were tested.

Mod.1736 'Modified' - Smaller Wingtips
Fitted to extend airframe flying hours by reducing wing-loading. Result of fatigue testing of
XN982 at HS Brough, to determine cause of the crash of XV345 while participating in 'Red Flag 80' on 07/02/1980 - (Fatigue testing commenced Jun. 1982 - solution implimented to specific airframes from Aug.1989-onwards)"

They are going to put it a call out on their website tomorrow so you may get some replies. Hope this helps.
sharasec is offline  
Old 7th Jan 2010, 19:43
  #51 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Quite near 'An aerodrome somewhere in England'
Posts: 25,141
My first model Buccaneer wasn't even called a Buccaneer - it was the Airfix NA 39, released in about 1960:

Usual indifferent build quality, with rather wobbly folding wings (no slur, mate!), rotating bomb door (with 'atomic bomb'!) and a folding nose - but it was my pride and joy at the time!
BEagle is offline  
Old 7th Jan 2010, 19:59
  #52 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: the dark side
Posts: 915
So I'm afraid you're slightly wide of the mark there if you're suggesting that I don't know what I'm talking about

Show us one of yours then. On the put up or shut up basis you're arguing about Mr Song on.

Complimentary badge to anyone who idents the 'office'

I find it odd that a previous editor of such journals seems to think that the progress these kits would appear to offer is hardly worth it. It seems a very retrograde opinion. I'd have a dim view of an editorial that suggested this sort of progress wasn't worth the effort or money. Are you 'current' though? Seeing as you mention your model journal experience. I can't recall your name appearing of late.

And er what's the point about thirty years in the aerospace industry? it hardly makes you unique. I've been in the industry twenty eight if we're counting, anyone been in less then me?
jumpseater is offline  
Old 7th Jan 2010, 20:45
  #53 (permalink)  
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Join Date: Apr 1998
Location: 18nm N of LGW
Posts: 6,192
This thread is developing into advertising too much - this NOT a modeling forum - or site. You can find them, if you are welcome there.

Together with the level of angst and toys out of the pram nonsense the thread is now closed.
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