Aviation History and Nostalgia Whether working in aviation, retired, wannabee or just plain fascinated this forum welcomes all with a love of flight.

TAA and the DC-9

Old 26th Dec 2008, 08:18
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Australia
Age: 54
Posts: 1,965
TAA and the DC-9

Why did TAA continue to operate or the reasoning behind operating the DC-9 up until the pilots dispute?
Ansett had phased out their DC-9 operation by 1981, so TAA would have been competing agianst the new B737-200 and then 300 on certain routes.
Did TAA have plans to start a low cost airline with the DC-9 aircraft?
Stationair8 is offline  
Old 26th Dec 2008, 08:31
  #2 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: PPrune nominee 2011!
Posts: 1,561
Did TAA have plans to start a low cost airline with the DC-9 aircraft?
Where did you pull that from?
Skystar320 is offline  
Old 26th Dec 2008, 08:39
  #3 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: PPrune nominee 2011!
Posts: 1,561
During 1981, Ansett commenced the withdrawal of the DC-9 from its fleet as new Boeing 737-200s were delivered. The last route for Ansett's DC-9 was flown by VH-CZA on June 17 1982 from Launceston to Melbourne.

FYI
Skystar320 is offline  
Old 26th Dec 2008, 09:12
  #4 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Wherever I can log on.
Posts: 1,742
I thought that TAA did the smart thing in keeping the DC9 in service until the B737-300 became available. Ansett (ie Abeles) bought the B737-200 as an interim aircraft until the B737-300 arrived. This was a very expensive process and the resale value of the -200s was significantly reduced once the high bypass turbo-fan equipped -300s started coming off the production line. TAA only had to introduce one type of aircraft and thus had lower "change over" costs. IMHO
Going Boeing is offline  
Old 26th Dec 2008, 09:32
  #5 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: UK
Age: 60
Posts: 36
TAA also carried out a minor upgrade program on it's DC9's in order to compete with the 737-200's at Ansett. Cabin interior was refurbished, including addition of overhead bins in place of the old hat racks, minor avionic upgrades and an engine synch system .... which was a blessing for people sitting down the back!!
The DC9 was a great aircraft at TAA and served them well until the CFM powered 737's came along.
TechCons is offline  
Old 26th Dec 2008, 09:35
  #6 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: australasia
Posts: 412
Quite simple really. Firstly the DC 9 was a superior aircraft to it's competitor 737.200. Similar operating costs, lower purchase cost, and more passenger appeal.

Secondly TAA was not being run by people lining their pockets from every new airframe introduced.

M
maui is offline  
Old 26th Dec 2008, 09:39
  #7 (permalink)  

Evertonian
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: #3117# Ppruner of the Year Nominee 2005
Posts: 10,457
I don't think Abeles did anything smart for Ansett. During his era, he made choices based on his business practice, all show & no substance.
Buster Hyman is offline  
Old 26th Dec 2008, 10:29
  #8 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,451
The 732 purchase allowed the Fat Man to pocket yet another hefty commission before pocketing yet another commission for the 733s.

On to less controversial matters: I don't think there'd be a single ex-TAA/Australian Airlines driver who went straight from the Diesel 9 to the 733 who wouldn't say it was a very steep learning curve, particularly since because of a major screwup by Jimmy Bowtie's bean counters, where line training hadn't been included in their plan to introduce the new type.

Someone who was directly involved will correct me if my memory's playing tricks on me, but I think each DC9 pilot completed only four sectors on the 733 before being cleared to the line - agreed upon by the AFAP and the AA pilots on the understanding that there would be a major payback on the part of the company when the next award was agreed upon.

That next award came up in a year all too familiar to many here - 1989... and to say the company did not reward their pilots for the way they (the pilots) helped the company get around the bean counters' screwup might be the understatement of all time.
Wiley is offline  
Old 26th Dec 2008, 10:34
  #9 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Paradise
Age: 61
Posts: 1,376
Taa Dc-9/b-737

Actually TAA had ceased to exist by 1989, having become "Australian Airlines" in 1986.

Additionally, Australian introduced the B737-300 before Ansett did.

Going Boeing, maui and Buster have all hit the nail on the head.

Ansett would probably have been better waiting for the B737-300 as well, but their fleet decisions were not necessarily made on purely commercial grounds. Perhaps the joint Chairman of TAA/Australian was unable to get a lunch date with (former US President) Jimmy Carter.
chimbu warrior is offline  
Old 27th Dec 2008, 05:58
  #10 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Classified
Posts: 122
confused:
Stationair 8,

Unless my memory is playing tricks - the DC-9 was fully withdrawn from service by Aug 89 (the dispute). The 733 was introduced in 86 & 87 with the relaunch as Australian Airlines.

Part of the steep learning curve referred to above was the fact that a 733 had much lower flap speeds and less powerfull speed brakes so the DC-9 drivers could no longer comfortably hold 300kts to 10 DME and still get in!.

Here's some Nostalgia for you
Photos: McDonnell Douglas DC-9-31 Aircraft Pictures | Airliners.net

or

YouTube - TAA (Trans Australia Airlines):

and

YouTube - TAA The Friendly Way 1960s

D.Lamination is offline  
Old 27th Dec 2008, 08:28
  #11 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Australia
Posts: 743
Those were the days, 45 mins Melb - Lauceston and a full meal served in business and economy!!
Dog One is offline  
Old 27th Dec 2008, 08:45
  #12 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 1999
Posts: 455
"Unless my memory is playing tricks - the DC-9 was fully withdrawn from service by Aug 89"

I recall a TN DC9 being stuck in HBA during the dispute. The bored ground crew used it to practice pushbacks and towing skills around the apron all day long.
oicur12 is offline  
Old 27th Dec 2008, 09:35
  #13 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: australasia
Posts: 412
The DC 9 was still in service up to "that date". It was however in the process of being withdrawn.

My last flight on the 9 and with Australian was HBA-LST-MEL on the 22nd of August "that year".
M
maui is offline  
Old 27th Dec 2008, 09:56
  #14 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Australia
Posts: 32
A bit off topic but I miss TAA/Australian Airlines, its sad we lost a big part of Australian aviation when they were taken over by Qantas. My father worked for TAA then Australian Airlines and I have fond memories of flying with them, and had my first jump seat ride in an Australian Airlines 737 into a stormy Brisbane Airport at night!

YouTube - Australian Airlines (Australian Television Ad) 1986 HD


Blue Carpet is offline  
Old 27th Dec 2008, 10:07
  #15 (permalink)  
Silly Old Git
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: saiba spes
Posts: 3,729
Those were the days, 45 mins Melb - Lauceston and a full meal served in business and economy!!
A lot of Launie folks learned about knives and forks for the first time on those flights
tinpis is offline  
Old 27th Dec 2008, 11:53
  #16 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 1999
Posts: 455
Now thats an airliner.

EAL DC10 dressed as CAL.

The good ol days.
oicur12 is offline  
Old 27th Dec 2008, 12:00
  #17 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: gold coast QLD australia
Age: 82
Posts: 1,345
Ah, the DC9 one of the sexiest, female, bitchy, beautiful, Aircraft ever built. Any pilot who strapped her to his ar#e was privileged, she was a Pilots aircraft like the 707, and we loved her with a passion. I had the privilege of breaking a speed record with her from SYD to Willie in 8 mins 14 seconds with a 125 tail wind behind me, empty, with a F/O and one male C/C on a repostioning sector, asking the ATC for some clean air (he was aware what I was trying to achieve, you could in those days) and we flattened her. F111 eat your heart out. My understanding was the reason for keeping the DC9 instead of going over to the 737 (at that point) was basically about traffic. If you could not fill a 727 on a sector then replace with a pocket rocket. 100 seats against 150 made financial sense. I ended up blundering around the sky on the airbus, ( I had four little tackers to feed by then) I used to look with envy as a DC9 came off a arm, wishing, oh well. I shall go to bed tonight dreaming of a Col FD108. (I hope I have not offended any female pilot with my description of the DC9, if I have I did not mean to, it was simply in our dumb way, the way we saw her).
teresa green is offline  
Old 27th Dec 2008, 12:11
  #18 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Permanently lost
Posts: 1,784
What's that the other side of the airbridge? Looks something like the tail of a RAF VC10 but perhaps too small?
PLovett is offline  
Old 27th Dec 2008, 12:14
  #19 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: Oztrailia
Posts: 2,825
Yep, it is an RAF VC-10, good spot.
ACMS is offline  
Old 27th Dec 2008, 19:44
  #20 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Queensland,Australia
Posts: 42
I remember a 72 doing an FTI Rok-Bne in 29mins,everyone gets excited about 60mins these days!!
clearone is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.