Identity of Airliner with Stairs under the Tail
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Originally Posted by henry crun
B727. Most of them were sealed after a certain bloke used the back stairs to parachute from one of them with a ransom.
Last edited by PaperTiger; 30th May 2008 at 21:30. Reason: Remove mysterious gobbledygook
Hi merlinxx
So were the seats moved around (wich I would imagine would take a shift to do and another to undo) or were certain aircraft preallocated and set up like this ?
So were the seats moved around (wich I would imagine would take a shift to do and another to undo) or were certain aircraft preallocated and set up like this ?
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Like 603DX I flew to Jersey in a BUA BAC 1-11 with the rear facing seats on several occasions. So this configuration was not confined to trooping flights.
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The Picture of the Piedmont Martin 202? having ventral stairs - Well you learn something..
DC9-10 Series (equivalent to BAC -11 200) NO Ventral Stairs but detachable Tail Cone so the rear emergency exit (in normal circumstances) led into the Tail Cone
BUA (and latterly BCAL) Configuration Teams:
The BAC 1-11's both 200 and 500 had a large number of approved configurations and it never ceased to amaze me how quickly a reconfiguration could be carried out (even a minor change could involve re-pitching every seat row).
BUA VC10's were also used on Trooping Flights (I think the last major contract was Aden which was before my time with the Airline).
DC9-10 Series (equivalent to BAC -11 200) NO Ventral Stairs but detachable Tail Cone so the rear emergency exit (in normal circumstances) led into the Tail Cone
BUA (and latterly BCAL) Configuration Teams:
The BAC 1-11's both 200 and 500 had a large number of approved configurations and it never ceased to amaze me how quickly a reconfiguration could be carried out (even a minor change could involve re-pitching every seat row).
BUA VC10's were also used on Trooping Flights (I think the last major contract was Aden which was before my time with the Airline).
I flew on an Allegheny Martin 202 in 1965 from Newark to Philadelphia.
How things have changed,went to a checkin desk but was told to simply go to the gate.No security of course.
The plane appeared,parked on the apron with tail towards the gate,engines still running and dropped the stairs from under the tail.
An agent wandered up,casually pulled our coupons and pointed us towards the plane.We boarded,stairs came up and off we went.
The flight must have been on the apron for all of 4 minutes!
How things have changed,went to a checkin desk but was told to simply go to the gate.No security of course.
The plane appeared,parked on the apron with tail towards the gate,engines still running and dropped the stairs from under the tail.
An agent wandered up,casually pulled our coupons and pointed us towards the plane.We boarded,stairs came up and off we went.
The flight must have been on the apron for all of 4 minutes!
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BAC 1-11 rear stairs and BUA rear facing seating
I remember using the 1-11 rear stairs, and on one occasion experienced an emergency evacuation after landing, due to a bomb scare, when having chosen to sit near the back was beneficial because we used the rear stairs, while those near the front had to use the front door slides!
I also remember the rear facing seats on the BUA 1-11-201s, when, for a short period in the late 1960s, they were used on morning and evening flights between Gatwick and Belfast/Edinburgh/Glasgow. (Was that the BUA Interjet service?) We were told that these aeroplanes were used for trooping flights during the middle of the day.
asmccuk
I also remember the rear facing seats on the BUA 1-11-201s, when, for a short period in the late 1960s, they were used on morning and evening flights between Gatwick and Belfast/Edinburgh/Glasgow. (Was that the BUA Interjet service?) We were told that these aeroplanes were used for trooping flights during the middle of the day.
asmccuk
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WHBM Plenty time on night shift, could be done in 4/5 hours. Acft then spent
up to a month in rearward config. APU running all night on stand
kept us Ops/Flt Planning Erks awake!!! (Thks again for the pics)
Opssy Yup Aden, I remember the last out being hit by
small arms fire on dep. I think it div'd into Tehran enroute. Must
try harder to get memory in to gear.
Asmcck Yup all flts incl the Interjet were flown with rearward config as the
fleet was not that large by today's standards, to be able to keep
airframes dedicated to one task., though tried to keep off the
Genova sked, also the West African never was flown with rearward
config.
It was 40+ years ago
up to a month in rearward config. APU running all night on stand
kept us Ops/Flt Planning Erks awake!!! (Thks again for the pics)
Opssy Yup Aden, I remember the last out being hit by
small arms fire on dep. I think it div'd into Tehran enroute. Must
try harder to get memory in to gear.
Asmcck Yup all flts incl the Interjet were flown with rearward config as the
fleet was not that large by today's standards, to be able to keep
airframes dedicated to one task., though tried to keep off the
Genova sked, also the West African never was flown with rearward
config.
It was 40+ years ago
A parachute school in the west US used to use a BAC1-11 as it's jump plane with the gravity powered nutters exiting from the rear door. Can't remember where it operated from, but might have been Phoenix.
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henry crun. The B727's I am familiar with had a very ingenious mechanical device fitted to prevent a D B Cooper re-occurance. On the left side of the structure next to the door stair was a speed operated " wind vane " that after about 50 kts on the take off roll would rotate 90 degrees. This would introduce a baulk that would mechanically lock the door until the aircraft again dropped below high speed on the landing roll. The device was spring loaded to the open position. Clever and simple idea that certainly would have scuppered Mr Cooper's little scam !
Skydiving from the rear ventral door :
This has been offered for 10 years or more from Boeing 727s which major skydiving centres in the US chartered in on special occasions. Never found out if the exit steps are extended at speed or removed completely. More recently the DC9 has got such approval as well, and Perris in California (one of the largest ones) have one of their own.
http://www.freefall.com/aircraft.php
Ah, my "gravity powered nutter" days ........
Meanwhile back at the rearward seats trooping flights, BUA in the 1960s had the main charter contract to the MoD for flights to the various bases in Germany, which the One-Elevens were used for. Around 1969 this contract was lost to Britannia with 737s, who I am not aware turned seats around, so the RAF requirement must have been dropped. Mate from university days joined the MoD as an interpreter, and said that although he often went out to Germany on BA, sometimes the travel depatment in a moment of parsimony put him on the troop charters where he was packed in, in his suit, between army squaddies and their families, most of who had a stream of kids in tow and more babies in suspended bassinets than he would have believed possible. Sounds like even a night Ibiza was better.
This has been offered for 10 years or more from Boeing 727s which major skydiving centres in the US chartered in on special occasions. Never found out if the exit steps are extended at speed or removed completely. More recently the DC9 has got such approval as well, and Perris in California (one of the largest ones) have one of their own.
http://www.freefall.com/aircraft.php
Ah, my "gravity powered nutter" days ........
Meanwhile back at the rearward seats trooping flights, BUA in the 1960s had the main charter contract to the MoD for flights to the various bases in Germany, which the One-Elevens were used for. Around 1969 this contract was lost to Britannia with 737s, who I am not aware turned seats around, so the RAF requirement must have been dropped. Mate from university days joined the MoD as an interpreter, and said that although he often went out to Germany on BA, sometimes the travel depatment in a moment of parsimony put him on the troop charters where he was packed in, in his suit, between army squaddies and their families, most of who had a stream of kids in tow and more babies in suspended bassinets than he would have believed possible. Sounds like even a night Ibiza was better.
I understand from a former Dan Air D/O that they once rushed a late passenger out to a taxing 1-11 at Newcastle in the ramp car, asking tower to stop it and drop the back steps. LMC to load sheet, and off it went. Bravo!
BAC 1-11 rear facing seats.
The 500 srs. aircraft had max 109 pax with forward facing seats but Courtline wanted 119, so the rows at the overwing exits had back to back non reclining seats to allow better access to the exits.
The evacuation trials were done in a blacked out hangar (104) at Hurn with fit young apprentices all with numbered vests.
It took 3 attempts to achieve the required 90 sec. time for all occupants to evacuate using half the exits.
I know as I was one of the volunteers, but had to watch as there were too many of us.
Other operators also used this config.
The 500 srs. aircraft had max 109 pax with forward facing seats but Courtline wanted 119, so the rows at the overwing exits had back to back non reclining seats to allow better access to the exits.
The evacuation trials were done in a blacked out hangar (104) at Hurn with fit young apprentices all with numbered vests.
It took 3 attempts to achieve the required 90 sec. time for all occupants to evacuate using half the exits.
I know as I was one of the volunteers, but had to watch as there were too many of us.
Other operators also used this config.
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Interesting how thread drift occurs ..... My post #11 was on the subject of rear airstairs on a BUA 1-11, but also mentioned its rear-facing seats and the engines apparently idling while boarding. Several interesting posts have picked up on these points, so here's a little more ......
My wife and I were actually booked with BUA to Guernsey, not Jersey, with our newly born baby daughter to spend Christmas with her parents. Our daughter was also to be christened while in my wife's home island.
At the Gatwick check-in we were very disappointed to learn that our flight by Dart Herald or Viscount was cancelled owing to an excessive crosswind in Guernsey. The BUA desk staff could not have been kinder, when we explained the double blow of missing both Christmas and the christening. They quickly changed our booking and accompanied us to the Jersey-bound 1-11 flight, which had just boarded and was about to depart, with the promise of a connecting flight to Guernsey when the wind abated.
On arrival in Jersey the wind was unchanged in Guernsey, so BUA put us up in a very decent hotel, and we finally flew in a Dakota to Guernsey the next morning. All ended well, thanks to BUA - what service!
So our baby daughter had her first flight at the age of 2 weeks, backwards, to the "wrong" island. (She is now a PPL, and living in the "right" island, I'm pleased to say.)
My wife and I were actually booked with BUA to Guernsey, not Jersey, with our newly born baby daughter to spend Christmas with her parents. Our daughter was also to be christened while in my wife's home island.
At the Gatwick check-in we were very disappointed to learn that our flight by Dart Herald or Viscount was cancelled owing to an excessive crosswind in Guernsey. The BUA desk staff could not have been kinder, when we explained the double blow of missing both Christmas and the christening. They quickly changed our booking and accompanied us to the Jersey-bound 1-11 flight, which had just boarded and was about to depart, with the promise of a connecting flight to Guernsey when the wind abated.
On arrival in Jersey the wind was unchanged in Guernsey, so BUA put us up in a very decent hotel, and we finally flew in a Dakota to Guernsey the next morning. All ended well, thanks to BUA - what service!
So our baby daughter had her first flight at the age of 2 weeks, backwards, to the "wrong" island. (She is now a PPL, and living in the "right" island, I'm pleased to say.)
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merlinxx:
Rear facing seats may have been a MoD requirement, but it is not a requirement now.
We (BUA) only used rearward facing seats on the 1-11 for trooping flts to Germany. MoD Air requirement.