Identity of Airliner with Stairs under the Tail
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 113
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Identity of Airliner with Stairs under the Tail
Am I dreaming or is/was there a passenger aircraft which had rear stairs under the tail? Hard to describe, but passengers boarding the aircraft using these stairs would be facing the cockpit door - if that makes any sense. I thought it might be a DC-9 but can't find any photo evidence.
Gnome de PPRuNe
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Too close to Croydon for comfort
Age: 60
Posts: 12,634
Received 300 Likes
on
168 Posts
DC-9, 727, 1-11 and the Caravelle all had rear airstairs as I recall. 727 was the aeroplane of choice for the infamous US hijacker D B Cooper who used the rear airstair to exit by parachute with his loot...
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: norwich, norfolk, UK
Age: 75
Posts: 621
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
May I ask you to look at the caravelle, this had stairs under the tail, or am I also losing it ? Keith.
Last edited by norwich; 29th May 2008 at 22:50. Reason: added photo !
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 113
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Very interesting - thank you all.
The Caravelle picture is exactly the arrangement I'm talking about.
I'm dredging up a childhood memory so the DC-9 or BAC 1-11 are most likely in my case. The airline was probably Aer Lingus (don't think they had DC-9s).
I also remember travelling with Aer Lingus on a "combi" half pax/half freight aircraft, probably BAC 1-11 but I can't find any pictures. Unlikely to have been the same aircraft because I recall the front section being the pax section.
The Caravelle picture is exactly the arrangement I'm talking about.
I'm dredging up a childhood memory so the DC-9 or BAC 1-11 are most likely in my case. The airline was probably Aer Lingus (don't think they had DC-9s).
I also remember travelling with Aer Lingus on a "combi" half pax/half freight aircraft, probably BAC 1-11 but I can't find any pictures. Unlikely to have been the same aircraft because I recall the front section being the pax section.
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Garden of England
Age: 85
Posts: 165
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I flew to Jersey in 1965 in a BAC 1-11 with the rear airstairs. I recall that we boarded while both engines were running at idle, and that all of the passenger seats were facing the rear. This was considered a safer configuration in the event of a forced landing, at that time. I believe that the airline was BEA, or possibly BUA.
The One-Eleven probably had the APU running rather than both engines idling. The APU was directly above the rear stairs and its exhaust made a considerabe noise when in use.
I'm interested to hear about the One-Eleven with rear-facing seats as I didn't know any had these. In 1965 BUA was the first operator of the type, BEA didn't get the One-Eleven till several years later. Rear-facing seats were a requirement of the RAF for troop charters for a long time and so for airlines that did RAF work as well as commercial operations they would have their aircraft set out like this, but the requirement on chartered-in aircraft disappeared in the mid-1960s (the RAF continued with it on their own aircraft). BUA did a lot of RAF charter work at the time.
Not to be confused with those BA Tridents which for their whole life had a section of seating with rear-facing seats; this was an airline choice.
The concept that rear-facing seats were safer is open to considerable debate. Although pax may feel they are better supported in a forced landing or sudden stop, such seats expose the pax to greater injury in such circumstances from loose items such as hand-baggage or detached cabin fittings being thrown forward as projectiles, which a number of studies showed were actually a more likely and serious hazard.
I'm interested to hear about the One-Eleven with rear-facing seats as I didn't know any had these. In 1965 BUA was the first operator of the type, BEA didn't get the One-Eleven till several years later. Rear-facing seats were a requirement of the RAF for troop charters for a long time and so for airlines that did RAF work as well as commercial operations they would have their aircraft set out like this, but the requirement on chartered-in aircraft disappeared in the mid-1960s (the RAF continued with it on their own aircraft). BUA did a lot of RAF charter work at the time.
Not to be confused with those BA Tridents which for their whole life had a section of seating with rear-facing seats; this was an airline choice.
The concept that rear-facing seats were safer is open to considerable debate. Although pax may feel they are better supported in a forced landing or sudden stop, such seats expose the pax to greater injury in such circumstances from loose items such as hand-baggage or detached cabin fittings being thrown forward as projectiles, which a number of studies showed were actually a more likely and serious hazard.
Join Date: May 2007
Location: hertfordshire
Age: 49
Posts: 171
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Norwich, that caravelle brings back memories of seeing them fly into Luton when I was younger.
I do not know what operator used them out of Luton but they did look a very nice aircraft.
I wonder how easy they were to fly compared to the comet ?
With the horizontal tail lower down, I would image that Deep Stall is not a problem.
RD
I do not know what operator used them out of Luton but they did look a very nice aircraft.
I wonder how easy they were to fly compared to the comet ?
With the horizontal tail lower down, I would image that Deep Stall is not a problem.
RD
The only regular operators of Caravelles out of Luton appear to have been Sterling from Scandinavia, and the Spanish charter carriers (Aviaco, Transeuropa, TAE, etc) in the 1970s, when the Caravelles started to come down from mainline operations.
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: halifax
Posts: 175
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
rear facing seats
i once flow a DAN-AIR BAC1-11 which had the stairs in the rear. it also had a few rear facing seats, which were mainly centered around the emergeny exit areas over the wings, but only about 2 rows (i think the config was 2 - 3) suppose in hindsight, this gave a greater evacuation space should it be needed to depart the aircraft in a hurry.
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: It wasn't me, I wasn't there, wrong country ;-)
Age: 79
Posts: 1,757
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Rearward facing seats
We (BUA) only used rearward facing seats on the 1-11 for trooping flts to Germany. MoD Air requirement.