Identity of Airliner with Stairs under the Tail

[barit1]

When Allegheny (a.k.a. Agony) A/L introduced the DC9-51, row 1 seats faced aft, and a folding table separated row 1 and 2. It made for a nice conference arrangement, which I took advantage of once or twice. (You and the dolly could both have window seats, and play footsie...)

[Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh!]

Southwest used to have some rearward facing seats in some classic 737s. I flew facing backwards and it was quite disconcerting on take off.

[WHBM]

Originally Posted by Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh!

Southwest used to have some rearward facing seats in some classic 737s. I flew facing backwards and it was quite disconcerting on take off.

Indeed. The BA Tridents I mentioned earlier had the forward half of the cabin facing backwards and the rear half laid out normally. Where they met in the middle, like in the Southwest 737s, the seats faced each other in a nice little group of 6 each side of the aisle. However unlike Southwest the BA seating allocation plan would try and put any groups of 6 in here.

Now a nickname for the Trident was the "Gripper" on account of its tendency to Grip The Ground, but that was quite an exaggeration, and when the most powerful Trident 3s came to the very short Manchester-London shuttle, with minimum fuel and cargo, they could go up at a very substantial angle. And so six of us boarded at Manchester one evening (must have been about 1984). Top Banana from client took the window, facing forward. Our Sales Director took the middle seat next to him, the rest of us filled in, and I got the window facing backwards. Down the runway, rotate, and I find I am restrained solely by my seat belt. T.B. looks at me, surprised but then amused. Sales Director looks at me with a definite "Don't fall into him whatever you do" type expression. And so I grip the armrests, possibly an alternative source of the nickname. I still recall it !

[evansb]

Ventral airstairs

TAA Convair 240

[Seloco]

Facing backwards

Southwest used to have some rearward facing seats in some classic 737s. I flew facing backwards and it was quite disconcerting on take off.

Some years ago I recall being allocated a centre seat in the second row of a 757 on a flight to Phoenix out of Orange County. Row 1 faced backwards and was empty, so naturally I asked the FA if I could move to the empty row. I was told in no uncertain terms that Row 1 had to be kept empty. "Why?" I asked. "You'll soon find out..." was the answer.

Sure enough, the max energy take off required of 757s out of John Wayne International - with its (seemingly) near vertical initial climb to the airfield boundary followed by throttle back to minimum power level flight to the coast - would indeed have made those rear-facing seats extremely uncomfortable, if not downright dangerous.

[Opssys]

1-11 Ventral Stairs and Rearward Facing Seats

Before Jetties became the norm, it was standard practise to use the ventral stairs for both embarking and disembarking passengers (especially if seat numbers pre-allocated it made boarding a smidgen quicker) Although it was also standard practise to ensure Passengers using the Ventral Stairs didn't duck under the wing by Posting either a Passenger Services Agent, or Cabin Staff Member at the Wingtip.

As I have just put built a Laker AIrways Tribute Album for Caz Caswell's Web Site I have a photo to hand :-)

Copyright Caz Caswell 1975 used with Permission.

As for rearward facing seats, all the 500 Series configurations I seem to remember included one row next to the overwing exits that was rearward Facing. 99Y 104Y, 114Y and the dreaded 119Y with Seat Back 'Catering' and the various sub-versions plus the 8F 80Y. OK its a long while ago and I may be wrong. Some Passengers on the Scheduled Service would chose the rearward seats even if seats in the Forward Facing row on the other side of the emergency exits were available.

As for the BUA/BCAL 1-11-200 series 79Y was standard although I remember a F Class Configuration was used I cannot remember details, or if either had a rearward facing row for the emergency exit.

Laker Airways were all 84Y for their 300/400 Series Aircraft and again I cannot remember if this required a rear facing row to allow for emergency exit clearance.

[Retired Redcap]

If the airline was Aer Lingus then it would be a 1-11. The PCF configuration however would have been a 737-200 as I cannot ever recall them operating the 1-11 in this configuration.

[PaperTiger]

a 757 on a flight to Phoenix out of Orange County. Row 1 faced backwards

Really ? A 757 ? Never heard of that before, which airline ?

[Trident man]

WHBM,The Trident1 and 2 did have rear facing seats in the rear cabin and pullman seats in the front cabin this also included the Trident 3 as well,ill try and find a pic for all to see,here is the rear cabin of the 2E:

Trident 3B rear cabin:

and here are the pullman seats,these were located in the front of the forward cabin and the front of the rear cabin (pic)

[KeMac]

I seem to recall the first row of seats in the BEA Vanguards also faced rearwards with a table between the next forward facing row. My friend and I certainly flew in these seats from LHR to Edinburgh in the late sixties.

[Seloco]

Really ? A 757 ? Never heard of that before, which airline ?

I'm going to have to delve into the physical/mental archives; it was about 20 years ago! But since I have only been out of KSNA twice it shouldn't be that difficult.....and the second more recent time was with America West IIRC.

[philbky]

When the Trident 3s were on the Manchester Shuttle I often used to have to carry a large graphics bag which though measuring around 3 feet 6 inches by 3 feet was very light and was too fragile for the hold. I was always given one of the rearward facing seats, the bag sat nicely between the seats and the bulkhead. Wouldn't be allowed today of course - at least not without an extra charge.

[microlite]

If it was Aer Lingus then it was the 1-11

[evansb]

[Harry Clark]

You Youngsters !

Of COURSE the BAC 1-11 had "airstairs" at the back AND at the front ( the Laker Airways 300-series anyway ) VERY useful for a quick turn-round in Brindisi, when the Corfu runway was being repaired and CFU - LGW direct was "not on", as result. My own personal record was 8 minutes "engines off to engines on". Bet there's some-one out there who did better, but as Fred Burdick died last year, I doubt there's another still with us !

[ducksoup]

Harry,

The 1-11 did, of course have air stairs front and rear except for the so-called Super 1-11 of the well known Big Airways. Their air stairs were not fitted (at extra cost) and weights were put in their place for balance reasons. Apparently this was due to the step-pushers union having to be mollified. They were very powerful in those days. Neither did they have water injection, nor the drooped leading edge of other Operators 500s. Super?

There was also the alleged and allied story of Boeing not allowing BA to call their aircraft the Super 737 due to potential problems with other Operators! Just a spot of info I picked up from the BAC pilots course at Weybridge in 1970.

[Groundloop]

There was also the alleged and allied story of Boeing not allowing BA to call their aircraft the Super 737 due to potential problems with other Operators! Just a spot of info I picked up from the BAC pilots course at Weybridge in 1970.

As BA 737s carried the Super 737 titles for at least 6 years Boeing were not very successful! Also as BA's first 737s were delivered in 1980 how could it be discussed at Weybridge in 1970?

[Mechta]

Ilyushin 86

The Ilyushin Il-86 had airstairs which came out the left side of the rear fuselage. Once inside at the level of the baggage hold, one then turned left and up another set of fairly steep stairs into the rear of the cabin. Disabled access didn't appear to figure in the design, nor did the designer seem concerned about maximising the use of internal space.

I flew in one Heathrow to Sheremetzevo (Moscow) in December 1991, and the internal stairs, along with the humungous cast aluminium lever on the upstairs emergency exits and the 'take no prisoners' appearance of the Aeroflot hostesses, left a lasting impression.

Rear airstair:

http://cdn-www.airliners.net/aviatio.../1/1643137.jpg

Front Airstair:

http://cdn-www.airliners.net/aviatio.../6/0914613.jpg

A good shot of the steps stowing:

http://www.planes.cz/photo/1004/1004...e-prg-lkpr.jpg

This shows it well:

http://cdn-www.airliners.net/aviatio.../9/1267992.jpg

At an internal Airbus presentation in 2004-ish, the speaker suggested that the A320 replacement could resemble an Il-76 with a pair of rear-mounted engines (well, that's how I visualised his description). The reasoning being that budget airlines were not bothered about top speed. However, sitting on the ground waiting for the steps to turn up cost them money, so future designs would be low to the ground to minimise airstair height.

[ducksoup]

Groundloop,

Of course you are right about the 737 and my aged memory is up to something. Must be either alzheimers or dementia although the earlier remarks were correct I think.

[pppdrive]

rear airstairs

Earlier it was asked about Caravelle operators at Luton and one that is missing was Altair who based a Caravelle at Luton and one at Gatwick during the 80s.

Also the Monarch 1-11s (500s) were operated with 119 seats

Paul