Vulcan XH 558 Threads (merged)
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Most of the photos show Vulcans in service as having a light coloured underside (grey?). Is the camouflage underside used for display purposes so the mighty one can be seen against the sky?
See Vulcan to the Sky Trust - Avro Vulcan Bomber XH558 - Vulcan To The Sky Trust
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As said, the Vulcan's undersides were (for many years) painted Light a/c Grey which looked almost white on the aircraft. Prior to using grey, the aircraft wore gloss white (with grey/green camouflage tops) and this was seen on all aircraft when they were first camouflaged, the underside grey beginning to appear on aircraft in the early 1970's.
The wrap-round camouflage appeared in the early 1980's and was only applied to a few aircraft. This was simply a continuation of the upper surface camouflage (a mirror image in fact) but the Medium Sea Grey was changed to Dark Sea Grey (combined with the Dark green) overall. Most Vulcan's were withdrawn before they reached repaint stage however.
XH558's story is slightly different. It started-off overall white (like all the other B2's) and then received Medium Sea Grey/Dark Green upper surface camouflage with white undersides. By this stage it had been converted into a MRR machine and it was later given a gloss finish, and the underside was changed to Light Aircraft Grey and it remained in this scheme until it was converted into a tanker and subsequently withdrawn.
After operational use, the aircraft was selected for air display use and it was flown to Kinloss where it was painted in the finish it now has. Although they opted to copy the wrap-round camouflage and colours, they applied a gloss finish (the operational aircraft had a matt finish) so the result looks slightly strange and more contrasty. They also gave the finish a slightly soft sprayed edge in parts and although this was often seen on MRR machines, the overall-camouflaged aircraft all had hard-edged camouflage, so again XH558's finish looks odd in comparison. So that's basically why she is as she is - it was simply a random paint scheme applied at Kinloss for air display flying. The ECM intake was removed when the aircraft was converted into a tanker but this was never replaced so again XH558 is unique in this respect.
It's a shame really that she doesn't look like an operational Vulcan but I guess anything is better than nothing! If I win the Lottery I think I'll be offering to get her painted in proper camouflage with a white underside and full colour insignia - and get that RWR box taken off the tip of the fin!
The wrap-round camouflage appeared in the early 1980's and was only applied to a few aircraft. This was simply a continuation of the upper surface camouflage (a mirror image in fact) but the Medium Sea Grey was changed to Dark Sea Grey (combined with the Dark green) overall. Most Vulcan's were withdrawn before they reached repaint stage however.
XH558's story is slightly different. It started-off overall white (like all the other B2's) and then received Medium Sea Grey/Dark Green upper surface camouflage with white undersides. By this stage it had been converted into a MRR machine and it was later given a gloss finish, and the underside was changed to Light Aircraft Grey and it remained in this scheme until it was converted into a tanker and subsequently withdrawn.
After operational use, the aircraft was selected for air display use and it was flown to Kinloss where it was painted in the finish it now has. Although they opted to copy the wrap-round camouflage and colours, they applied a gloss finish (the operational aircraft had a matt finish) so the result looks slightly strange and more contrasty. They also gave the finish a slightly soft sprayed edge in parts and although this was often seen on MRR machines, the overall-camouflaged aircraft all had hard-edged camouflage, so again XH558's finish looks odd in comparison. So that's basically why she is as she is - it was simply a random paint scheme applied at Kinloss for air display flying. The ECM intake was removed when the aircraft was converted into a tanker but this was never replaced so again XH558 is unique in this respect.
It's a shame really that she doesn't look like an operational Vulcan but I guess anything is better than nothing! If I win the Lottery I think I'll be offering to get her painted in proper camouflage with a white underside and full colour insignia - and get that RWR box taken off the tip of the fin!
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XH558's story is slightly different. It started-off overall white (like all the other B2's)
Last edited by forget; 6th Sep 2009 at 11:23.
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Well yes, if they were delivered late enough, but with regard to 558 it was delivered in overall white like all the others. The only unknown aspect really concerns the aircraft's intakes as one image exists of the aircraft at Woodford with the lower lips covered by a tarpaulin. This suggests that it might have actually been completed with the smaller B1-type intakes which the first B2's had, and had the deeper intakes fitted later. Haven't managed to find any proof of this either way though sadly.
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........ it was delivered in overall white like all the others.
The point of yours I'm correcting is that 'all the others' were not delivered in overall white.
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While we're on the subject of old schemes, can anyone give a definitive answer as to why the white and early camouflage painted Vulcans had the underside of the nose (painted?) black, while the later camouflage schemes didn't.
Possibly something to do with the radar?
I've heard varying possibilities given from people, but no-one has been able to give definite answer.
Many thanks.
Possibly something to do with the radar?
I've heard varying possibilities given from people, but no-one has been able to give definite answer.
Many thanks.
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It's an interesting point which I've enquired about as well and I've never found any official reason for it. Best guess is that it was simply deleted when the later paint schemes were introduced. It's interesting that 617 Squadron adopted a black-less radome whilst their aircraft still wore the grey/green and white paint scheme but this paint scheme was virtually unique to that squadron, so unless one imagines that their radar equipment was different to that used by all the other squadrons, it must have simply been a change in taste rather than being down to any technical reason. It might be worth noting that the VC10 fleet lost their black radomes too, and again I haven't seen any reason to suggest that this was down to anything other than aesthetics - or perhaps a desire to save a bit of money!
You could say the same about the Hercules, Phantom and Tornado for that matter. Or even pusser's Sea Vixens.
As for the 617th Bombardment Wing having different radar to the rest of the V-force, forget it. Although it might perhaps have helped them to obtain better BombComp scores, were it true.
As for the 617th Bombardment Wing having different radar to the rest of the V-force, forget it. Although it might perhaps have helped them to obtain better BombComp scores, were it true.
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You could say the same about the Hercules, Phantom and Tornado for that matter. Or even pusser's Sea Vixens
Fair point Beagle - I think it must have just been a fashion fad!
Wraparound Camouflage
The first airframe to feature wraparound camouflage was that flown by OC/RAF Det during Night Red Flag in Nov/Dec 79 at Nellis AFB (in fact known as Red Flag 80/1 for USAF budgetary reasons). Of the four aeroplanes used, it was certainly not XL 426 nor XM 606, but may have been XM 612; I cannot recall the fourth airframe.
As for 617's bombing pre-eminence during 1979-81, particularly over their Scampton Cowboy neighbours, it was simply down to better nav radars.
As for 617's bombing pre-eminence during 1979-81, particularly over their Scampton Cowboy neighbours, it was simply down to better nav radars.
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Originally, radomes were black because it was a special radome paint that needed less preparation and primer and had less attenuation effect on the ground mapping radar returns. Later developments in paint technology included coloured pigments. As to 617 having a unique paint scheme - I find that hard to explain as, during most of the time the Vulcan fleet were wearing camo on top with white undersides, the aircraft were allocated to the "Wing", were centrally maintained and were shared by all squadrons. In fact they swapped stations pretty often too.
As to matt finishes, although many Vulcans appear to have a matt paint finish in photographs, they actually came out of the paint shop in gloss, but it weathered very quickly to a matt appearance, a result of sixties paint technology - and an effect often seen on sixties motor cars, especially Vauxhalls! You would see much the same thing if you looked at a lot of photgraphs of VC10s during the sixties and early seventies at the time 10 Squadron were referred to disparagingly by the Britannia squadrons as "Shiny Ten". Shiny fresh out of a Major and already matt before the next Minor.
As to matt finishes, although many Vulcans appear to have a matt paint finish in photographs, they actually came out of the paint shop in gloss, but it weathered very quickly to a matt appearance, a result of sixties paint technology - and an effect often seen on sixties motor cars, especially Vauxhalls! You would see much the same thing if you looked at a lot of photgraphs of VC10s during the sixties and early seventies at the time 10 Squadron were referred to disparagingly by the Britannia squadrons as "Shiny Ten". Shiny fresh out of a Major and already matt before the next Minor.
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As I mentioned before, my view is that the radome black was dropped because it wasn't particularly effective (in terms of improving the radar picture) and therefore unnecessary. I've never heard of any other reason why it disappeared so I can only assume it simply dropped out of fashion!
As for 617's Vulcans, I have no idea why they opted for black-less radomes either. The grey/green finish with white undersides and a non-black radome wasn't unique to 617 but it appears to have been applied to all of their aircraft for a period (or at least all the ones wearing their markings) and I seem to recall there were one or two other units which had similarly-painted examples, but 617 seemed to be the main recipient. All very odd!
Camouflage; well yes, most of the early camouflage schemes were applied in gloss but the wrap-around grey/green was definitely applied in matt finish. I suspect most of the later Medium Sea Grey/Green/Light Aircraft Grey finishes were also applied in matt too as they contrasted starkly with the gloss-finished B2(MRR) aircraft - doubtless there were exceptions though! I would assume that gloss finishes were abandoned when they switched from grey/green tops with white undersides (and started applying Light Aircraft Grey) the only exceptions being the MRR machines.
As for 617's Vulcans, I have no idea why they opted for black-less radomes either. The grey/green finish with white undersides and a non-black radome wasn't unique to 617 but it appears to have been applied to all of their aircraft for a period (or at least all the ones wearing their markings) and I seem to recall there were one or two other units which had similarly-painted examples, but 617 seemed to be the main recipient. All very odd!
Camouflage; well yes, most of the early camouflage schemes were applied in gloss but the wrap-around grey/green was definitely applied in matt finish. I suspect most of the later Medium Sea Grey/Green/Light Aircraft Grey finishes were also applied in matt too as they contrasted starkly with the gloss-finished B2(MRR) aircraft - doubtless there were exceptions though! I would assume that gloss finishes were abandoned when they switched from grey/green tops with white undersides (and started applying Light Aircraft Grey) the only exceptions being the MRR machines.
May I temporarily hijack this thread to advertise next April's V Force reunion at Newark Air Museum. There is already a thread about this on Military Aircrew, but you can go direct to the reunion website via this link V-Force Reunion I dont know whether XH 558 will be putting in an appearance, obviously it would be tremendous if it did, but that will be a matter for NAM and Vulcan to the Sky. Anyway if the 2004 reunion was anything to go by it should be a great weekend for all ex V Force people, of any rank, aircrew and groundcrew.
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Maybe en-route to this.....
BBC NEWS | UK | England | Leicestershire | Vulcan bombing mission re-enacted
Nice video, but don't read too much into the text.
BBC NEWS | UK | England | Leicestershire | Vulcan bombing mission re-enacted
Nice video, but don't read too much into the text.