Tu104
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Tu104
The mention of the TU104 Braking Chutes in the Caravelle thread
caused a serious nostalgic attack.
I liked doing the TU104 turnrounds at Gatwick, the Cabin staff pressing soft drinks and pin on badges (USSR, Aeroflot) on us and Cockpit Crews taking photo's of themselves with the Ground girls. The Cabin with it's Orient Express feel, the Pressure bulkhead to the Cockpit. The Loading staff really didn't like them much, the near bomb bay type holds being high and difficult. BAA were always unimpressed when a chute was dropped (this was summer at Gatwick and the airport was quite busy, actually very busy).
The occasional note from the MOD telling them to stick to flight plan in future. The fact they would NOT let us do the Loadsheets and finding Loadsheets in the ships papers from the tech stop which showed a trim envelope so narrow and some weights which caused raised eyebrows (I never kept one, wish I had).
However the questions are when did:
Aeroflot stop using the TU104 internationally?
Aeroflot stop using the TU104?
Who was the last TU104 Operator (if not Aeroflot) and when
was the last one retired?
I cannot remember when the TU134 and TU154 took over completely, too much Harveys Ale over too many years but it is now causing me angst so any help appreciated
DIH
caused a serious nostalgic attack.
I liked doing the TU104 turnrounds at Gatwick, the Cabin staff pressing soft drinks and pin on badges (USSR, Aeroflot) on us and Cockpit Crews taking photo's of themselves with the Ground girls. The Cabin with it's Orient Express feel, the Pressure bulkhead to the Cockpit. The Loading staff really didn't like them much, the near bomb bay type holds being high and difficult. BAA were always unimpressed when a chute was dropped (this was summer at Gatwick and the airport was quite busy, actually very busy).
The occasional note from the MOD telling them to stick to flight plan in future. The fact they would NOT let us do the Loadsheets and finding Loadsheets in the ships papers from the tech stop which showed a trim envelope so narrow and some weights which caused raised eyebrows (I never kept one, wish I had).
However the questions are when did:
Aeroflot stop using the TU104 internationally?
Aeroflot stop using the TU104?
Who was the last TU104 Operator (if not Aeroflot) and when
was the last one retired?
I cannot remember when the TU134 and TU154 took over completely, too much Harveys Ale over too many years but it is now causing me angst so any help appreciated
DIH
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Can't help you with the 104, but the 154 still operates into Manchester. I was showing a group around the Concorde when I noticed something very smokey and fast on short final for 24R. It was a 154 and everyone stopped what they were doing (you couldn't hear anything anyway) as it reverse-thusted on the runway, then vacated and taxied past us on its way to the stand.
SSD
SSD
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Hmm!
TU154M First Class Frankfurt-Novosibirsk-Frankfurt November 2003 14th-28th, my only flights in a Russian built Aircraft and as a passenger I was extremely well looked after (Very belated thank you to S7). Off my own topic but Siberian Airlines are good people and their Operations Department includes ex-AN2 Pilots from Aeroflot's old siberian division. Anyone who flew in the conditions they accepted as normal deserves respect. Before disappearing down my own thread ex AN2 guys have dispersed to unexpected places including SITA in Hayes (Aviation is a small world).
Rambling over (dried frog pills taken)
DIH
TU154M First Class Frankfurt-Novosibirsk-Frankfurt November 2003 14th-28th, my only flights in a Russian built Aircraft and as a passenger I was extremely well looked after (Very belated thank you to S7). Off my own topic but Siberian Airlines are good people and their Operations Department includes ex-AN2 Pilots from Aeroflot's old siberian division. Anyone who flew in the conditions they accepted as normal deserves respect. Before disappearing down my own thread ex AN2 guys have dispersed to unexpected places including SITA in Hayes (Aviation is a small world).
Rambling over (dried frog pills taken)
DIH
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very smokey and fast on short final
Have been in TU-134's and TU-154's. Without exception all have been shabby inside (one always crosses the fingers that the shabbiness does not carry over to the safety critical stuff). Much prefer the TU-134 because, despite the shabbiness, there was in each one I flew in a vaguely old fashioned stateliness.
On topic, at the bigger Russian airports there is always a big collection of old aircraft pushed into the corner and, in many cases, almost overgrown. Cannot be sure if I have seen TU-104's in amongst that collection, although it would not surprise me if some still do exist in that state. When did they stop flying or, and nothing that happens in Russia would surprise me, are any still flying?
Pressure bulkhead to the Cockpit
pin on badges (USSR, Aeroflot)
[Edited to correct comment without checking facts!]
Last edited by Evening Star; 26th Aug 2005 at 20:31.
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Evening Star.
The interior of the two TU154's I have flown in have echoes of the 'vaguely old fashioned stateliness' which you mention, but it made a pleasant change from the economy cabin of a mass transit wide body.
Whilst I don't know which Airlines you have flown TU134/TU154's with and I am aware that certain Airlines using Russian Kit do not 'present' their aircraft well, but the Siberian Examples were certainly not shabby.
I must admit I was hoping to see an Aircraft 'dump' at Novsibirsk, but my views of the ramp meant I only saw some late model IL86's TU154's and I believe a TU204.
Going back to the TU104. Real porcelain style toilets, heavy velvet window drapes. The cabin fittings seemed to be from the 1930's Orient Express school of luxury railway carriage design.
The interior was very different to the 1-11's, VC10's, 707's and DC8's which filled most of my day.
Aah the bulkhead door - Glass Nose - In the event of a pane going, the cockpit would depressurise but the cabin wouldn't.
Two pilots, Navigator and English speaking Radio Operator appeared to be standard, but I seem to remember 5 on occasion. Heavy crew.
Glass Nose useful for all sorts of purposes when flying over NATO countries, some having to do with Navigation (oh yeah), but on some Domestic and certain other routes probably did serve as very useful Navigation aid!
As for the Badges I think I have one somewhere, but it is reminder of my largely mis-spent youth, so it won't be for sale.
Pictures at Airliners net
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/561866/M/
This above is by Caz Caswell is from my time on the ramp at Gatwick
Plus it has a Donaldson Brit in the background and finally it illustrates the other feature of Soviet Aircraft the huge Radio Call sign.
But this one from Kjell Nilsson shows not only the chute deployed but the Glass Nose:
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/559018/M/
Both show the anhedral wing so alien to those brought up on Western Civil Design.
Finally BUA, then BCAL handled only Aeroflot Charters (so Schedule Service Diversions were BEA, then BA handled) so we only dealt with two Aeroflot Directorates: Moscow and Ukraine.
This actually meant three routes Moscow, Kiev and Simferpol.
Of these the most attractive to dispatch were those from Simferpol
Sorry, probably more than you wanted to know
DIH
The interior of the two TU154's I have flown in have echoes of the 'vaguely old fashioned stateliness' which you mention, but it made a pleasant change from the economy cabin of a mass transit wide body.
Whilst I don't know which Airlines you have flown TU134/TU154's with and I am aware that certain Airlines using Russian Kit do not 'present' their aircraft well, but the Siberian Examples were certainly not shabby.
I must admit I was hoping to see an Aircraft 'dump' at Novsibirsk, but my views of the ramp meant I only saw some late model IL86's TU154's and I believe a TU204.
Going back to the TU104. Real porcelain style toilets, heavy velvet window drapes. The cabin fittings seemed to be from the 1930's Orient Express school of luxury railway carriage design.
The interior was very different to the 1-11's, VC10's, 707's and DC8's which filled most of my day.
Aah the bulkhead door - Glass Nose - In the event of a pane going, the cockpit would depressurise but the cabin wouldn't.
Two pilots, Navigator and English speaking Radio Operator appeared to be standard, but I seem to remember 5 on occasion. Heavy crew.
Glass Nose useful for all sorts of purposes when flying over NATO countries, some having to do with Navigation (oh yeah), but on some Domestic and certain other routes probably did serve as very useful Navigation aid!
As for the Badges I think I have one somewhere, but it is reminder of my largely mis-spent youth, so it won't be for sale.
Pictures at Airliners net
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/561866/M/
This above is by Caz Caswell is from my time on the ramp at Gatwick
Plus it has a Donaldson Brit in the background and finally it illustrates the other feature of Soviet Aircraft the huge Radio Call sign.
But this one from Kjell Nilsson shows not only the chute deployed but the Glass Nose:
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/559018/M/
Both show the anhedral wing so alien to those brought up on Western Civil Design.
Finally BUA, then BCAL handled only Aeroflot Charters (so Schedule Service Diversions were BEA, then BA handled) so we only dealt with two Aeroflot Directorates: Moscow and Ukraine.
This actually meant three routes Moscow, Kiev and Simferpol.
Of these the most attractive to dispatch were those from Simferpol
Sorry, probably more than you wanted to know
DIH
Last edited by Opssys; 27th Aug 2005 at 14:08.
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As an atca at Heathrow in the late 60s/early 70s, it was always a joy when the Aeroflot crew (the whole crew) turned up in flight clearance to file a flight plan. I distinctly remember them wearing medals, not just the ribbons like the equally distinguished BEA Trident and Vanguard pilots who normally frequented the place.
The last time I can recall seeing a Tu104 was post-accident at Nicosia Airport, late '73, or early '74. After landing it had departed the runway and bounced across the bundu, losing the starboard wing in the process. Fortunately I don't think anyone was seriously injured, and I believe a local Cypriot businessman eventually bought the fuselage, with the intention of converting it into a restaurant.
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The Tupolev book by the late (and sorely missed) Paul Duffy offers some answers:
Aeroflot Vnukovo Directorate began retiring them in 1973 and two years later the last one was withdrawn from Irkutsk.
Soviet military flew them until 1981.
Last known flight in 1986, from Sheremetyevo to Ulyanovsk for delivery to the Aeroflot museum.
I remember they often routed a 'bit off' Red One inbound to Heathrow, passing in the vicinity of RAF Wattisham, Wethersfield (USAF), etc.
Understand the fuselage of the Tu-104 at Nicosia is still there, but locals unfriendly to visiting photographers.
Aeroflot Vnukovo Directorate began retiring them in 1973 and two years later the last one was withdrawn from Irkutsk.
Soviet military flew them until 1981.
Last known flight in 1986, from Sheremetyevo to Ulyanovsk for delivery to the Aeroflot museum.
I remember they often routed a 'bit off' Red One inbound to Heathrow, passing in the vicinity of RAF Wattisham, Wethersfield (USAF), etc.
Understand the fuselage of the Tu-104 at Nicosia is still there, but locals unfriendly to visiting photographers.
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Though you chaps might like to see this.
I collect old aircraft display models and this is one in my collection.
Its a 1/24 CSA Tu-104 cutaway model, 66 inches long with a span of 57 inches, the interior lights up.
I think the model dates to the late 50s, its mostly made of metal apart from the outer wings which are wood, it weighs a ton.
Peter.
I collect old aircraft display models and this is one in my collection.
Its a 1/24 CSA Tu-104 cutaway model, 66 inches long with a span of 57 inches, the interior lights up.
I think the model dates to the late 50s, its mostly made of metal apart from the outer wings which are wood, it weighs a ton.
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Must be proud of that one Peter!
One thing I've always wondered is how noisy the cabin was in flight due to the proximity of the engines. Although I suppose the same question applies to the Comet
One thing I've always wondered is how noisy the cabin was in flight due to the proximity of the engines. Although I suppose the same question applies to the Comet
I flew quite a few times in the 104 when it did the LHR-SVO flights of old, and a few times within the Soviet Union. Yes, they were noisy, and there was always that strange smell on board. Many said it was boiled cabbage, but it didn't smell like any cabbage I'd ever come into contact with. Even in those days, they served chicken, with copious quantities of vodka, which helped to deaden the sound. Of course, there was always the additonal crew member - to keep his eye on the others...Although I've been told since that the radio operator was how can I put it - superfluous? That would explain your five crew Opssys - perfect description of the interior by the way - brought back a few memories!
The Comet was fairly quiet, quieter than the 104, which from memory (slightly clouded by all that vodka), had a high-pitched tone to it which was not present in the Comet.
The Comet was fairly quiet, quieter than the 104, which from memory (slightly clouded by all that vodka), had a high-pitched tone to it which was not present in the Comet.
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The smell as mentioned by Barry L.
The nearest I can come to describing it is, musty as if a room had be closed up for a very long time, but whilst from memory close, still not right.
I don't remember anyone giving an explaination as to why all TU104's had that smell and my only thoughts after all this time are probably fanciful.
As the Aircraft Spent a long time on the ground at home base they were deep cleaned and then sprayed with insectide and closed up.
After a very short while the 'scent' of the cleaning solutions and the spray permeated all those drapes, cloth covers, carpets , etc.
As the procedure was repeated at the end of each trip, the scent was replenished.
Probably a 'cr*p' theory.
I must admit that I envy Barry for having flown in them, although a combination of copious vodka and chicken would be a serious disincentive.
DIH
The nearest I can come to describing it is, musty as if a room had be closed up for a very long time, but whilst from memory close, still not right.
I don't remember anyone giving an explaination as to why all TU104's had that smell and my only thoughts after all this time are probably fanciful.
As the Aircraft Spent a long time on the ground at home base they were deep cleaned and then sprayed with insectide and closed up.
After a very short while the 'scent' of the cleaning solutions and the spray permeated all those drapes, cloth covers, carpets , etc.
As the procedure was repeated at the end of each trip, the scent was replenished.
Probably a 'cr*p' theory.
I must admit that I envy Barry for having flown in them, although a combination of copious vodka and chicken would be a serious disincentive.
DIH
Good description Opssys.
I don't think you're too far wide of the mark there. The Soviets had an obsession with disinfectant, and there was always the routine closing of restaurants (usually at about lunchtime!), and out would come the sweeping brush and dirty cloth to deal with the floor. The fact that the aircraft were not used much, (they would be locked up for days at a time), allowed the smell to permeate.
I would rather not have had to fly in the 104, but there sometimes was no choice. I preferred the Trident, with as I mentioned on another thread, the captain declaring on the way home 'We have now left Soviet airspace', at which time the G&Ts would start flowing, especially on that 'club four' arrangement with the rearward facing seats and the foldaway table.
Believe me, the vodka on the 104s made the thought of several weeks in remote parts of the Soviet Union slightly more bearable -I didn't touch the chicken!
I don't think you're too far wide of the mark there. The Soviets had an obsession with disinfectant, and there was always the routine closing of restaurants (usually at about lunchtime!), and out would come the sweeping brush and dirty cloth to deal with the floor. The fact that the aircraft were not used much, (they would be locked up for days at a time), allowed the smell to permeate.
I would rather not have had to fly in the 104, but there sometimes was no choice. I preferred the Trident, with as I mentioned on another thread, the captain declaring on the way home 'We have now left Soviet airspace', at which time the G&Ts would start flowing, especially on that 'club four' arrangement with the rearward facing seats and the foldaway table.
Believe me, the vodka on the 104s made the thought of several weeks in remote parts of the Soviet Union slightly more bearable -I didn't touch the chicken!
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Opssys: which Airlines you have flown TU134/TU154's
Peter Barron: Though you chaps might like to see this.
Buzz off with BAF!!
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I remember TU 104s at Gatwick in the 1960s.
Apart from the noise, they often suffered from 'wet starts'
on the apron, when sheets of flame would cause a spectacular
exodus of ground staff from the ramp.
Apart from the noise, they often suffered from 'wet starts'
on the apron, when sheets of flame would cause a spectacular
exodus of ground staff from the ramp.
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TU 104 book
Hi,
I have always been intersested in 104's having been a spotter in the 60/70s. I am now involved in aviation and have been since the 70s. I have been toying with the idea of producing a book on the 104 ,but getting information will not be easy.
I have a fair bit of ephemra and photos taken by myself, some good many not so good!
I dont think it will be a money spinner but a labour of love.
I was in Moscow last year and saw CCCP42507 preserved at the Tupolev rework facility along with a TU114! now that's another story!
Any thoughts!
SKI
I have always been intersested in 104's having been a spotter in the 60/70s. I am now involved in aviation and have been since the 70s. I have been toying with the idea of producing a book on the 104 ,but getting information will not be easy.
I have a fair bit of ephemra and photos taken by myself, some good many not so good!
I dont think it will be a money spinner but a labour of love.
I was in Moscow last year and saw CCCP42507 preserved at the Tupolev rework facility along with a TU114! now that's another story!
Any thoughts!
SKI
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Clint.
Very evocative of the era. Although somehow a sepia tint would
sort of sum up the TU104 'feel'.
If the above doesn't make sense, put it down to no sleep trying to pin down my two favourite Aircraft of all time ..
DIH
Very evocative of the era. Although somehow a sepia tint would
sort of sum up the TU104 'feel'.
If the above doesn't make sense, put it down to no sleep trying to pin down my two favourite Aircraft of all time ..
DIH
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Nice pic, brings back some memories of Gatwick in the early 70s...
What's that in front of the Dove? It looks a bit like a Navion.
What's that in front of the Dove? It looks a bit like a Navion.
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Mr Grubby
42398 is at Le Bourget (still nice though!).
SKI
The Tu-104 is a glaring hole in the many Soviet type books appearing at a rapid clip; I would be surprised if work was not underway on one. There is a lot of specialist information out there.
42398 is at Le Bourget (still nice though!).
SKI
The Tu-104 is a glaring hole in the many Soviet type books appearing at a rapid clip; I would be surprised if work was not underway on one. There is a lot of specialist information out there.