V2 tipping
to sail beyond the sunset
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Dublin
Posts: 81
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
No contact would be necessary, as the compressed air layer on top of the wing would be sufficient.
I have this on the best authority, a "Reader's Digest" article I read at about the age of 12!
A US jet pilot in the Korean War blacked out because of oxygen failure, and his wing men forced him back down to 10,000 where he could breathe again
Don't try this at home.
I have this on the best authority, a "Reader's Digest" article I read at about the age of 12!
A US jet pilot in the Korean War blacked out because of oxygen failure, and his wing men forced him back down to 10,000 where he could breathe again
Don't try this at home.
No contact would be necessary, as the compressed air layer on top of the wing would be sufficient. I have this on the best authority, a "Reader's Digest" article I read at about the age of 12!
A US jet pilot in the Korean War blacked out because of oxygen failure, and his wing men forced him back down to 10,000 where he could breathe again
A US jet pilot in the Korean War blacked out because of oxygen failure, and his wing men forced him back down to 10,000 where he could breathe again
Meyer used his wing tip to put Gallo into a spiral dive three times, getting him down to 9,000 ft where he recovered sufficently to resume control.
However, from reading Meyer's account, it seems that contact was made on each occasion.
Gnome de PPRuNe
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Too close to Croydon for comfort
Age: 60
Posts: 12,761
Received 398 Likes
on
218 Posts
Onan, that sounds like the 57 FIS F-94 Scorpion that was "shoved" back to Keflavik by a mate after flaming out over the decidedly chilly Atlantic. Allegedly!
Believe the pusher stuck his nose up the jet pipe of the pushee.
Believe the pusher stuck his nose up the jet pipe of the pushee.
I faintly recall a Bob Steven's cartoon of a sprog P-47 jock coming up on a V-1.
Caption--Now that's the kind of target I like -- one that doesn't shoot back!
I'll just get up real close so I won't miss!
Sign on V-1 -- Gefahr! Explosif!
I'll just get up real close so I won't miss!
Sign on V-1 -- Gefahr! Explosif!
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Nirvana South
Posts: 734
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Probably the best book I've read on the whole V weapon war is "The Mare's Nest" by David Irving. I have a very old "Corgi" paperback and it makes fascinating reading.
For years the British were looking for big tubes as they didn't know that the V2 had internal guide vanes in the rocket nozzle and just used a small blast plate to launch. They actually had a photo of a V2 in firing position on a plate but with the flattened curvature of the plate it looked like a standard British Army tent and it was dismissed! Phot recce also provided shots of the V1 but they were dismissed as small fighters.
There were two large concrete structures - one for the V2 and one for the V3 "High Pressure Pump" a multi-barrel sequential charge gun (charges in side chambers added to projectile energy) a la Bull gun for Iraq. Jo Kennedy Junior was killed in an attempt to fly a loaded bomber into one of them when it exploded prematurely.
Page 262 of the book shows the fall of V2s between September & November 1944 - all mostly London and to the East but another grouping around Norwich from Staveren in Holland.
For years the British were looking for big tubes as they didn't know that the V2 had internal guide vanes in the rocket nozzle and just used a small blast plate to launch. They actually had a photo of a V2 in firing position on a plate but with the flattened curvature of the plate it looked like a standard British Army tent and it was dismissed! Phot recce also provided shots of the V1 but they were dismissed as small fighters.
There were two large concrete structures - one for the V2 and one for the V3 "High Pressure Pump" a multi-barrel sequential charge gun (charges in side chambers added to projectile energy) a la Bull gun for Iraq. Jo Kennedy Junior was killed in an attempt to fly a loaded bomber into one of them when it exploded prematurely.
Page 262 of the book shows the fall of V2s between September & November 1944 - all mostly London and to the East but another grouping around Norwich from Staveren in Holland.
Self Loathing Froggy
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: elsewhere
Age: 18
Posts: 546
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Those of you driving to Calais for shopping could drive a couple more km further south to visit La Coupole (another link )
The thing that struck me most is the fact that the V2 was quite an unefficient weapon : there were more people killed in the Dora concentration labour camp (30000) that by direct hits (15000 in UK, Belgium and France).
The thing that struck me most is the fact that the V2 was quite an unefficient weapon : there were more people killed in the Dora concentration labour camp (30000) that by direct hits (15000 in UK, Belgium and France).
Gentleman Aviator
V2 was quite an unefficient weapon
... but of course the effect on morale of a weapon with no appartent counter may have been disproportionate to its actual effect.
Self Loathing Froggy
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: elsewhere
Age: 18
Posts: 546
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
LowNSlow
No doubt about that.
My point was that something like 500 brutes with sticks, handguns and gallows achieved a higher deathtoll than all that brand-new technology.
the Dora management regarded the deaths of their workforce as a success rather than a failure
My point was that something like 500 brutes with sticks, handguns and gallows achieved a higher deathtoll than all that brand-new technology.
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Nirvana South
Posts: 734
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Have to agree on the morale side. My father was on base when the Guard's Chapel at Caterham (?) was hit by one of the first V2s. Beleive the total fatalities were around 44 (one of the highest) but the effect on the troops was huge.
I beleive there was a special Royal Engineers unit that watched for launches & were able to provide some warning however crude - at least people knew they were coming.
From my grandmother, who was in London then, the V1 "doodlebug" was almost a joke - if you could hear them they probably weren't going to hit you as the motor had to stop before they came down. Incidentally there were two gun rings around London with the fighters in the middle ring.
If you get to my neck of the woods (or prairies), check out the Kansas Cosmosphere. It has originals of both V1 and V2. They were restoring the V2 and found an original QA document inside one of the fuel tanks. They also have a very full description of Camp Dora, its role and the cost in human life. Included is a pencil sketch that was smuggled out showing the hills above the Camp which had a very unique profile in the hope that it would be bombed. It's quite a unique experience (for a US museum) to have the teenage docent explain exactly what lengths went on in Dora - don't think I ve heard anything like it except for the description of the death toll at Gettysburg.
I beleive there was a special Royal Engineers unit that watched for launches & were able to provide some warning however crude - at least people knew they were coming.
From my grandmother, who was in London then, the V1 "doodlebug" was almost a joke - if you could hear them they probably weren't going to hit you as the motor had to stop before they came down. Incidentally there were two gun rings around London with the fighters in the middle ring.
If you get to my neck of the woods (or prairies), check out the Kansas Cosmosphere. It has originals of both V1 and V2. They were restoring the V2 and found an original QA document inside one of the fuel tanks. They also have a very full description of Camp Dora, its role and the cost in human life. Included is a pencil sketch that was smuggled out showing the hills above the Camp which had a very unique profile in the hope that it would be bombed. It's quite a unique experience (for a US museum) to have the teenage docent explain exactly what lengths went on in Dora - don't think I ve heard anything like it except for the description of the death toll at Gettysburg.
Cool Mod
Join Date: Apr 1998
Location: 18nm N of LGW
Posts: 6,186
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From my grandmother, who was in London then, the V1 "doodlebug" was almost a joke - if you could hear them they probably weren't going to hit you as the motor had to stop before they came down. Incidentally there were two gun rings around London with the fighters in the middle ring.
It was no joke I can assure you.
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Asgard
Posts: 488
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My father was on the receiving end of the earliest V1 attacks. He saw about 4 on the first day and was at first under the impression that they were enemy aircraft which had been hit by anti aircraft fire, as they all had flames coming out of the back of them.
Later on, when their true nature had been established, he would apparently stand quite nonchalently out in the open with his father , and watch the things fly over near his home in East London. A relative visiting from the country was horrified at this, and would dive for cover as soon as the pulse jet was heard.
Later on, when their true nature had been established, he would apparently stand quite nonchalently out in the open with his father , and watch the things fly over near his home in East London. A relative visiting from the country was horrified at this, and would dive for cover as soon as the pulse jet was heard.
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Nirvana South
Posts: 734
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Pop,
All I can say is I'm glad you survived. Loki's tale just parallels my gran's in that the V1s rapidly went into the nuisance category for a lot of Londoners especially East Enders (she was in Woolwich I beleive). This may have been due to the relative success of the defences (especially the emphasis on tipping) and the intelligence war that gradually shifted the aiming point further & further East over the Thames Estuary.
I'm always amazed at the level of bombing that was taken in their stride by people duiring the war. My mother got caught on a train in an air raid. A sailor told her not to worry - they could hear the bombs - it was the one you didn't hear that would get you. After the real hell of the Blitz when, for example, Silvertown & the Isle of Dogs was set on fire from end to end; the effect of a single one tonne warhead once or twice a day was probably just an inconvenience - unless, of course, you were under it as you were Pop.
All I can say is I'm glad you survived. Loki's tale just parallels my gran's in that the V1s rapidly went into the nuisance category for a lot of Londoners especially East Enders (she was in Woolwich I beleive). This may have been due to the relative success of the defences (especially the emphasis on tipping) and the intelligence war that gradually shifted the aiming point further & further East over the Thames Estuary.
I'm always amazed at the level of bombing that was taken in their stride by people duiring the war. My mother got caught on a train in an air raid. A sailor told her not to worry - they could hear the bombs - it was the one you didn't hear that would get you. After the real hell of the Blitz when, for example, Silvertown & the Isle of Dogs was set on fire from end to end; the effect of a single one tonne warhead once or twice a day was probably just an inconvenience - unless, of course, you were under it as you were Pop.
Paxing All Over The World
It is true that they landed above the speed of sound. There was no warning - just the explosion. A quote from one who was there (my mother) "If you heard the V2 then you were alive."
I have not read the book but can attest to one arriving in Ashford, Middlesex on 28th October 1944, around 04:00. It killed the two people who would have become my paternal grandparents. The young man who would (but for a later and unrelated flying prang) have become my uncle, escaped because his bedroom was on the far side of the house, which was of a very solid construction. The house was repaired after the war and still stands but not with my family as occupants.
Page 262 of the book shows the fall of V2s between September & November 1944 - all mostly London and to the East
