V2 tipping
Hi Loki
That title sounds about right. It was of American origin. The "TwoDeaddogs" bit comes from the sound of one's tyres scuffing on tarmac upon touchdown being akin to the sound of a couple of poochs getting hit by a car. "arf,arf!". My first PPL instructor coined it and he clearly had a warped sense of humour.
Incidentally,the Americans tethered a captured Zero upon a huge wire mesh and fired the prototype shells at it. They wanted the fuse to fit the standard Navy 5in round. Later, they managed to fit the fuse into the Bofors 40mm round.
regards
TDD
That title sounds about right. It was of American origin. The "TwoDeaddogs" bit comes from the sound of one's tyres scuffing on tarmac upon touchdown being akin to the sound of a couple of poochs getting hit by a car. "arf,arf!". My first PPL instructor coined it and he clearly had a warped sense of humour.
Incidentally,the Americans tethered a captured Zero upon a huge wire mesh and fired the prototype shells at it. They wanted the fuse to fit the standard Navy 5in round. Later, they managed to fit the fuse into the Bofors 40mm round.
regards
TDD
Tonbridge, Kent circa 1944. Self walking up Deakin Leas (where I lived). Heard Doodlebug first and saw it scorching toward general London area my guess now around 1500-2000 ft with a Tempest about 300 yards directly behind it. Tempest let go with cannons and the Doodlebug blew up in a brilliant ball of flame and smoke.
Obviously the Tempest got away without being blown up itself, because it shoved off quickly. I didn't hear of anyone getting hurt on the ground although the explosion seemed directly over the marshalling yards. If there were no casualties, it was a miracle because it was one hell of an explosion.
Obviously the Tempest got away without being blown up itself, because it shoved off quickly. I didn't hear of anyone getting hurt on the ground although the explosion seemed directly over the marshalling yards. If there were no casualties, it was a miracle because it was one hell of an explosion.
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Are there records of where V-1s (and even V-2s) hit in and around London?
I remember being told that a number hit the Sutton/Croydon area (South London) back at school and was interested to know where.
I seem to remember there was a map that we were shown where there had been a hit and that I went to see one that had been up my road at the time to see 3 houses of much younger origin than the rest of the street. Mind you I was only 10 at the time so may have been twisting the truth a bit!
Also, where were the wildest places that anyone has heard of these things ending up? Did any go completely off course?
I remember being told that a number hit the Sutton/Croydon area (South London) back at school and was interested to know where.
I seem to remember there was a map that we were shown where there had been a hit and that I went to see one that had been up my road at the time to see 3 houses of much younger origin than the rest of the street. Mind you I was only 10 at the time so may have been twisting the truth a bit!
Also, where were the wildest places that anyone has heard of these things ending up? Did any go completely off course?
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Dr I,
My old man was about 17 at the time. Like many others at the time he lied about his age and joined up when he was 15.
He was an OLD sqn hack by the time he was 18.
My old man was about 17 at the time. Like many others at the time he lied about his age and joined up when he was 15.
He was an OLD sqn hack by the time he was 18.
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Are there records of where V-1s (and even V-2s) hit in and around London?
I remember being told that a number hit the Sutton/Croydon area (South London) back at school and was interested to know where.
I remember being told that a number hit the Sutton/Croydon area (South London) back at school and was interested to know where.
So Jerry obligingingly reduced the range .................I know that one hit our village church, out in the Surrey Hills near Dorking. Though it could have been flipped by a Tempest, I suppose.
You're right Ozplane. Shooting the things down was too dangerous. They were small, the reflector gunsights and gun harmonistaion were not optimised for such a small target. So the only way of shooting them down was to get bl**dy close - not a good idea!
The book regarding the developement of the proxy fuse is
"THE DEADLY FUZE"- Secret weapon of WW2 by Ralph B. Baldwin.
Published by Janes 1980. ISBN 0 354 01243 6.
Brilliant read and highly recommended.
"THE DEADLY FUZE"- Secret weapon of WW2 by Ralph B. Baldwin.
Published by Janes 1980. ISBN 0 354 01243 6.
Brilliant read and highly recommended.
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Two Dead Dogs:
One did wander off and land in Sweden, and no doubt our spies got some info. However, hardware was recovered from a crashed V2 by the Polish resistance and flown back to the UK aboard a C47.
One did wander off and land in Sweden, and no doubt our spies got some info. However, hardware was recovered from a crashed V2 by the Polish resistance and flown back to the UK aboard a C47.
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Two Dead Dogs: Apologies for doubting you, you were right.
A. Cave Brown says on July 10th 1944 UK intelligence received info that a V2 had fallen in Sweden.
Menzies was given permission to buy the remains of the rocket from the Swedes for two squadrons of tanks.
Two Mossies were sent to Stockholm to bring these remains back to England.
gruntie: A German spy called Zigzag, who was to call the fall of the V1's, was captured and put to work passing back doctored info.
However, he was caught telling his story in a pub so his services were terminated, but the XX-Committee continued to pass false info re the fall of V1's.
The campaign was not entirely successful because although the Germans did shorten their range, many V1's, instead of falling in open country, came down in the working class areas south of the Thames.
The majority had previously been falling in the more affluent areas to the north.
A. Cave Brown says on July 10th 1944 UK intelligence received info that a V2 had fallen in Sweden.
Menzies was given permission to buy the remains of the rocket from the Swedes for two squadrons of tanks.
Two Mossies were sent to Stockholm to bring these remains back to England.
gruntie: A German spy called Zigzag, who was to call the fall of the V1's, was captured and put to work passing back doctored info.
However, he was caught telling his story in a pub so his services were terminated, but the XX-Committee continued to pass false info re the fall of V1's.
The campaign was not entirely successful because although the Germans did shorten their range, many V1's, instead of falling in open country, came down in the working class areas south of the Thames.
The majority had previously been falling in the more affluent areas to the north.
Cool Mod
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The V2 was the first ballistic missile. It reached the stratosphere where, of course, nothing could touch it. It was never seen or heard except for the sonic bangs when it fell to earth.
It is laughable to consider that AA guns could ever be considered as a counter to them.
It is laughable to consider that AA guns could ever be considered as a counter to them.
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I read a very interesting book on German wind tunnel testing and the V-2 project. The book is called "The Peenemuende Wind Tunnels" and is written by Peter Wegener. As far as I remember the V2 climed to a very high altitude (60-80 km seems to stick in my mind) and hit the surface at about Mach4. I could be wrong about the numbers, it has been years since I read the book. One thing is for certain though, it was almost impossible to shoot it down. A few V2s exploded prematurely during their long free fall (last few seconds before impact), and I don't think the engineers were able to slove the problem. That might be a reason to claims that V2s were shot down by AA or fighter planes.
7 7 7 7
7 7 7 7
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[thread hijack]
I went to the a V2 launch site once. It's was a gigantic block of concrete that the allies pounded night after night. There was even a huge piece of concrete that got dislodged from the roof, but still they kept using the facility.
Then along came Tallboy (I think). One raid with reasonable accuracy was enough to cause a ground tremor that dislodged the fuel tanks and they had to shut the whole place down.
Pretty interesting tour, though obviously the site is in some disrepair
[/thread hijack]
I went to the a V2 launch site once. It's was a gigantic block of concrete that the allies pounded night after night. There was even a huge piece of concrete that got dislodged from the roof, but still they kept using the facility.
Then along came Tallboy (I think). One raid with reasonable accuracy was enough to cause a ground tremor that dislodged the fuel tanks and they had to shut the whole place down.
Pretty interesting tour, though obviously the site is in some disrepair
[/thread hijack]
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Weren't there also He111/missile combinations floating around at about the same time? I can't recall whether they were air launching V1s or other derivatives of the Fiesler (?) design or whether they were Mistels.
They were launched from below radar coverage off the Dutch coast and the most effective counter was a standing Beaufighter patrol operating below, yes below, their launch altitudes. This at night and I have always understood to have been using sensitive altimeters rather than any form of radalt.
Anybody else know anything about this or am I just using my initials?
They were launched from below radar coverage off the Dutch coast and the most effective counter was a standing Beaufighter patrol operating below, yes below, their launch altitudes. This at night and I have always understood to have been using sensitive altimeters rather than any form of radalt.
Anybody else know anything about this or am I just using my initials?
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After the ground sites were overrun Heinkel 111's were used to air launch standard V1's.
Apparently this was the most inaccurate method and few launched this way reached London.
Apparently this was the most inaccurate method and few launched this way reached London.
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There were a few interesting tries by the Luftwaffe with unmanned missiles. The Mistel project was nothing more than packing an old bomber full of explosives and tie it to a Me-109 or FW190. Once released in the air the bomber - now a cruise missile - would be flown into the target via remote control.
There were a few tries to tow V-1s with Ar234s. I have only seen one picture, and I am not sure that He-111s were used. He-111s were used to drop V-1s in flight.
The Fieseler project - a manned V-1 - was never flown. The idea was to pilot a V-1 into the target and the pilot would eject shortly before impact. For those who have not seen a "Fieseler Fi 103 Reichenberg IV" craft:
There were a few tries to tow V-1s with Ar234s. I have only seen one picture, and I am not sure that He-111s were used. He-111s were used to drop V-1s in flight.
The Fieseler project - a manned V-1 - was never flown. The idea was to pilot a V-1 into the target and the pilot would eject shortly before impact. For those who have not seen a "Fieseler Fi 103 Reichenberg IV" craft:
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According to R V Jones, Herbert Morrison opposed feeding the "V1's are overshooting story" to the Germans
as this would reduce the number falling on the "toffs" in central London without reducing the numbers falling on the labour voters in South London.
Who says political correctness is new?
Talking of political incorrectness, 35 years ago I worked with "Old Jasper" on a farm in Sussex
Jasper "See that field over there? There was one of they Eytalian prisoners of war ploughing it when one of they doodleybugs landed right on top of 'ee.
We never found one bit of 'ee. Did we laugh"
Didn't think too much of Eytalians, our Jasper
as this would reduce the number falling on the "toffs" in central London without reducing the numbers falling on the labour voters in South London.
Who says political correctness is new?
Talking of political incorrectness, 35 years ago I worked with "Old Jasper" on a farm in Sussex
Jasper "See that field over there? There was one of they Eytalian prisoners of war ploughing it when one of they doodleybugs landed right on top of 'ee.
We never found one bit of 'ee. Did we laugh"
Didn't think too much of Eytalians, our Jasper
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S7777:
The manned V1s were flown, but not operationally. Have been reading test pilot Hans-Werner Lerche's book and he describes some of the tests flying the mother He111, first with the V1s gliding without power, then with the PJ working. Hanna Reitsch was involved as one of the test pilots of the V1s. According to all written reports I've seen these manned V1s were to be suicide missions, even with some well-known pilots having volunteered. No ejections seats fitted, but a test pilot was recorded to have bailed out of one of the early powered flights. Other pilots suffered injuries and fatalities with later powered test flights.
BTW, my earlier post said they were hoping to get the radar and guns set up to have a pot shot at the V2s, however optomistic that idea may have been. No-one claimed to have even tried, never mind to have successfully shot one down!
The manned V1s were flown, but not operationally. Have been reading test pilot Hans-Werner Lerche's book and he describes some of the tests flying the mother He111, first with the V1s gliding without power, then with the PJ working. Hanna Reitsch was involved as one of the test pilots of the V1s. According to all written reports I've seen these manned V1s were to be suicide missions, even with some well-known pilots having volunteered. No ejections seats fitted, but a test pilot was recorded to have bailed out of one of the early powered flights. Other pilots suffered injuries and fatalities with later powered test flights.
BTW, my earlier post said they were hoping to get the radar and guns set up to have a pot shot at the V2s, however optomistic that idea may have been. No-one claimed to have even tried, never mind to have successfully shot one down!
Hi all
With regards to the He111s, I read an account of their operations whereby the RAF initially used Mosquitos to intercept the launch aircraft. The Mossies were too fast, of course, so the Beaus were sent in,because they could fly safely at the launch speed,around 150mph,of the missile. The Heinkels launched the V-1s and then carried out a steep diving turn thru 180 degrees to evade the night-fighters and run for home. The ultimate loss rate eventually forced them to end operations.
regards
TDD
With regards to the He111s, I read an account of their operations whereby the RAF initially used Mosquitos to intercept the launch aircraft. The Mossies were too fast, of course, so the Beaus were sent in,because they could fly safely at the launch speed,around 150mph,of the missile. The Heinkels launched the V-1s and then carried out a steep diving turn thru 180 degrees to evade the night-fighters and run for home. The ultimate loss rate eventually forced them to end operations.
regards
TDD