Did You Fly The Vulcan?? (Merged)
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Gainsey,
Not quite right. All the blanket stackers worked 7-13, the Bomber Wing worked 7-17 plus flying after that.
We had a vote at one point to work shorts on Monday, Wednesday and Friday but Zebbedee Sutton at Epi made us work longs on Mon and Fri. No fool he.
He realised that letting someone miss a half-day on Monday or Friday was more likely than taking a 10 hours day off.
He also tried to confine aircrew to the base but was told that short of arresting them all he couldn't.
A typical liver-in working week was:
Monday 1400, slide in from Kyrenia, brief, fly, land, sleep in.
Tuesday 1200 show face on sqn, check mail, check programme, swim.
Wednesday, full day 0830-1230 with an hour or so up at the NAAFI. (Not IX they worked 7-13).
Thursday volunteer for last sortie of the day - swim in the morning, fly, slide off to Kyrenia.
3 nights at Akrotiri and 4 in Kyrenia.
Not quite right. All the blanket stackers worked 7-13, the Bomber Wing worked 7-17 plus flying after that.
We had a vote at one point to work shorts on Monday, Wednesday and Friday but Zebbedee Sutton at Epi made us work longs on Mon and Fri. No fool he.
He realised that letting someone miss a half-day on Monday or Friday was more likely than taking a 10 hours day off.
He also tried to confine aircrew to the base but was told that short of arresting them all he couldn't.
A typical liver-in working week was:
Monday 1400, slide in from Kyrenia, brief, fly, land, sleep in.
Tuesday 1200 show face on sqn, check mail, check programme, swim.
Wednesday, full day 0830-1230 with an hour or so up at the NAAFI. (Not IX they worked 7-13).
Thursday volunteer for last sortie of the day - swim in the morning, fly, slide off to Kyrenia.
3 nights at Akrotiri and 4 in Kyrenia.
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As a first time poster and SLF (but lurker for a few years!) I saw this thread and realised I was potentially sitting on something I could contribute which may jog a few memories. I apologise if this post rambles a bit!
Before I continue, there is a bit of background to this... When at school I was an RAF cadet, and as part of a promotion I had to do a project on something RAF-related which ended up as Vulcan-related (long story, involving Biggin Hill and a rather "relaxed" rotation one day). I was taught at school by a former Vulcan Pilot - He was called Ambrose Stretfield, and when I researched it, he wrote me a detailed letter of his time as a Vulcan pilot. I have no idea if he is aware of this thread, but I hope he won't
mind me sharing some of his memories with you.
He was involved with Vulcans from 1957 to 1961, starting with 83 Sqn at Waddington in June 1957 on the MK1, where he was a Co-Pilot. After a captain's course he joined 617 Sqn at Scampton and remained there till 1960, when he returned to 83 Sqn (the first MkII Sqn) as a Flight Commander.
In the letter he remembers the Vulcan as a superb aircraft to handle "very easy and light despite the great size, because they were equipped with power operated control surfaces, which could be very easily moved with a small movement of the fighter-type control column" He goes on to detail the number of crew
and their responsibilities and talks of the MkII having the more advanced wing and more powerful Olympus engines and mentioned that the occasional sortie went up to FL600, and I quote "I didn't like it much it up there - there was very little margin to play with between your high cruise Mach Number (0.86) and the stalling speed. This was of course assumed we would go in at high level, but when Gary Powers was shot
down at FL800 we realised we'd have to go in under the radar"
He left Vulcans just before low-level training commenced.
He did have a few hairy moments while flying Vulcans - whilst on the MKI as co-pilot he was doing circuits (and after about 4 hours of training sortie and doing a number of "touch and go's") just after rotating, both Port engines more or less disintegrated. Apparently a number of the compressor blades came adrift in one of the engines (he doesn't say which) and bits of debris were sucked into the other causing a fair amount of damage. His Captain apparently didn't think anything of it as there was very little warning and very little swing. The first they knew was when the fire-warning lights came on. The Captain nonchalantly flew a circuit on the two healthy engines and then executed a perfect landing.
The incident he remembers as the most dramatic was when he was flying from Goose Bay to Scampton after taking part in the World Congress of Flight at Las Vegas. They were mid-Atlantic when he noticed the No. 3 engine fuel was going down rather quickly. He got the AEO to look under the aircraft with the periscope. Unnervingly, there was a nice vapourised trail of fuel running for miles behind the aircraft. They had gone past the return point (especially as they had a nice 150kt tail wind) and called up Keflavik with the idea of an emergency landing there. You can imagine they were not best pleased when Keflavik mentioned they had a cloud-base of 300ft with driving snow... so it was a case of "let's press on to the UK". They transferred the fuel to the other tanks asap and after half an hour of transferring all was OK. On landing and after an investigation, it transpired that a rubber hose had burst just a few inches down-stream from the the high pressure pump, so "how we didn't have a fire, the good Lord only alone knows..."
He also mentions trials for "Scramble take off": 4 aircraft airborne from cold and says that they
eventually got it down to about 2 minutes, which "was designed to get most of your V-Force safely airborne before an ICBM arrived"
He also generously gave me a scale model of a Vulcan which he was given by Avro (1/72 scale) painted in the Blue-Steel "livery" (IIRC - the all white paint scheme) which I cherish!
Forgive me if this has been a bit long, but I hope that it adds to the stories/heritage so far.
CB
ed. for spelling
Before I continue, there is a bit of background to this... When at school I was an RAF cadet, and as part of a promotion I had to do a project on something RAF-related which ended up as Vulcan-related (long story, involving Biggin Hill and a rather "relaxed" rotation one day). I was taught at school by a former Vulcan Pilot - He was called Ambrose Stretfield, and when I researched it, he wrote me a detailed letter of his time as a Vulcan pilot. I have no idea if he is aware of this thread, but I hope he won't
mind me sharing some of his memories with you.
He was involved with Vulcans from 1957 to 1961, starting with 83 Sqn at Waddington in June 1957 on the MK1, where he was a Co-Pilot. After a captain's course he joined 617 Sqn at Scampton and remained there till 1960, when he returned to 83 Sqn (the first MkII Sqn) as a Flight Commander.
In the letter he remembers the Vulcan as a superb aircraft to handle "very easy and light despite the great size, because they were equipped with power operated control surfaces, which could be very easily moved with a small movement of the fighter-type control column" He goes on to detail the number of crew
and their responsibilities and talks of the MkII having the more advanced wing and more powerful Olympus engines and mentioned that the occasional sortie went up to FL600, and I quote "I didn't like it much it up there - there was very little margin to play with between your high cruise Mach Number (0.86) and the stalling speed. This was of course assumed we would go in at high level, but when Gary Powers was shot
down at FL800 we realised we'd have to go in under the radar"
He left Vulcans just before low-level training commenced.
He did have a few hairy moments while flying Vulcans - whilst on the MKI as co-pilot he was doing circuits (and after about 4 hours of training sortie and doing a number of "touch and go's") just after rotating, both Port engines more or less disintegrated. Apparently a number of the compressor blades came adrift in one of the engines (he doesn't say which) and bits of debris were sucked into the other causing a fair amount of damage. His Captain apparently didn't think anything of it as there was very little warning and very little swing. The first they knew was when the fire-warning lights came on. The Captain nonchalantly flew a circuit on the two healthy engines and then executed a perfect landing.
The incident he remembers as the most dramatic was when he was flying from Goose Bay to Scampton after taking part in the World Congress of Flight at Las Vegas. They were mid-Atlantic when he noticed the No. 3 engine fuel was going down rather quickly. He got the AEO to look under the aircraft with the periscope. Unnervingly, there was a nice vapourised trail of fuel running for miles behind the aircraft. They had gone past the return point (especially as they had a nice 150kt tail wind) and called up Keflavik with the idea of an emergency landing there. You can imagine they were not best pleased when Keflavik mentioned they had a cloud-base of 300ft with driving snow... so it was a case of "let's press on to the UK". They transferred the fuel to the other tanks asap and after half an hour of transferring all was OK. On landing and after an investigation, it transpired that a rubber hose had burst just a few inches down-stream from the the high pressure pump, so "how we didn't have a fire, the good Lord only alone knows..."
He also mentions trials for "Scramble take off": 4 aircraft airborne from cold and says that they
eventually got it down to about 2 minutes, which "was designed to get most of your V-Force safely airborne before an ICBM arrived"
He also generously gave me a scale model of a Vulcan which he was given by Avro (1/72 scale) painted in the Blue-Steel "livery" (IIRC - the all white paint scheme) which I cherish!
Forgive me if this has been a bit long, but I hope that it adds to the stories/heritage so far.
CB
ed. for spelling
Last edited by Chris_B_SLF; 8th Mar 2004 at 11:14.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Beagle,
Your tale of an absolute A*se reminds me of a particular Cranwell captain from the days of Flight Cadets. Cranwell cadets were either young flt lts, sqn ldrs or very few old, and slightly bitter, flt lts destined to be stuck on level 6 of the pay increments with all the supplementaries sliding past them.
In this case, 2 minutes before the turn the nav in good V-force fashion, went "Plotter - Captain" .... "Shut up I'm trying to think."
30 seconds to go he tried again "Shut up, I told you I'm trying to think" The plotter duly shut up.
Some time later the captain asked what the nav had wanted. "Doesn't matter now" he said. "Common plotter what was it" "Just trying to give you the next leg details"
"Well give them to me" "Where do you want to go?"
"Heading for Stornoway of course, why, where are we?"
"Faeroes. Do you want a heading for Keflavik?"
Your tale of an absolute A*se reminds me of a particular Cranwell captain from the days of Flight Cadets. Cranwell cadets were either young flt lts, sqn ldrs or very few old, and slightly bitter, flt lts destined to be stuck on level 6 of the pay increments with all the supplementaries sliding past them.
In this case, 2 minutes before the turn the nav in good V-force fashion, went "Plotter - Captain" .... "Shut up I'm trying to think."
30 seconds to go he tried again "Shut up, I told you I'm trying to think" The plotter duly shut up.
Some time later the captain asked what the nav had wanted. "Doesn't matter now" he said. "Common plotter what was it" "Just trying to give you the next leg details"
"Well give them to me" "Where do you want to go?"
"Heading for Stornoway of course, why, where are we?"
"Faeroes. Do you want a heading for Keflavik?"
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
NBS etc
Complete the following table:
The bombing equipment was codified and used to describe different bombing techniques. When the equipment was not working properly limited procedures (LP) were practised. This is my stab at doing the table as I feel a complete one would be of use to Archimedes.
The NBS Was equipment 2. With the Blue Steel electronics it was equipment 3. The visual, T4 bombsight was 5 (I think).
An equipment 2 attack was a straight and level, high level attack.
2A was a high level evasive bomb run. It was obsolescent in 1964 although we planned to use it for a conventional stick of 21 in the far east. About 43 miles from the target the aircraft was turned at 47 deg AOB, 1.5g through 45 degrees. Wings were levelled for 15 seconds before a 90 deg turn in the opposite direction. Wings were again levelled 30 seconds before the manoeuvre was repeated. The next steady leg was 15 seconds before the aircraft was rolled on to its attack heading about 15 miles from the target. As the forward throw was 7 miles, bomb release was after 60 seonds straight and level. Hopefully this would defeat a single SA2 missie site.
2B was a practice run against an x-band jammer. The jammer was from old B50s.
2C was a practice run against multiple x-band jammers. By 1964 this was not used as we only had one jammer.
2D was an operational popup attack to about 25,000 feet for a Blue Danube (Valiant) or Red Beard Attack.
2E was an operational popup attack to 11,000 feet with a one minute run to the release point some 2 miles from the target. Exposure to SAM impact was 112 seconds but popup to bomb release was 120 seconds. This was abandoned and we used the 2H instead.
2F was an operational laydown attack. At first it was limited to the Vliant equipped with Big E and Little E. From 1966 the Mk 2 Vulcan carried the WE177B and able to adopt the laydown attack as well. The introduction of the Mk 117 tail unit for the 1,000lb bomb allowed the force to make conventional laydown attacks.
2G was an operational popup attack from a low level approach and a pull up to 8,000 feet for release of 21,000lbs of bombs. This was 1,000 feet above light tripple A. REALLY!
2H was an operational pullup attack similar to a loft. The aircraft was navigated to a precise point dependent on the mark of aircraft and rotated through a specific angle. In the case of the Mk2 Vulcan with was 18,350 yards and 15 degrees. The Mark 1 PUP was about 21,500 yards. Weapon release was as the aircraft passed 10,500 feet in the climb. After tests, the Mark 1 crews realised they could complete an automatic bomb run using the NBC. It had a lower limit of 7,000 feet and could easily cope with the 10,000 foot per minute climb. Exposure to Yellow Sun impact was about 103 seconds, comfortably ahead of the expected SA2 impact at 112 seconds.
2J was an operational pullup attack to 2,500 feet for a release of 21,000 lb of bombs. It was below the lower limit of the SA2. The quicker of you will have noticed that it was nicely in the AAA envelope.
There was also an attack where the approach was at 45,000 feet followed by a rapid descent to 18,000 feet, above the NBC 2 lower limit of 17,200 feet, for a conventional, level attack. It would have been ideal in the Falklands where there was no medium level AD.
The Blue Steel aircraft would make equipment 3 attacks.
Equipment 3 was a convoluted, simulated missile profile with the aircraft following the Blue Steel guidance package. The difference being that the BS would have climbed to 65,000 feet and flown at 1.6 mn.
Perhaps a BS crew can follow up with the rest of the variations.
The LP profiles will be added later when I have got over typists RSI.
The bombing equipment was codified and used to describe different bombing techniques. When the equipment was not working properly limited procedures (LP) were practised. This is my stab at doing the table as I feel a complete one would be of use to Archimedes.
The NBS Was equipment 2. With the Blue Steel electronics it was equipment 3. The visual, T4 bombsight was 5 (I think).
An equipment 2 attack was a straight and level, high level attack.
2A was a high level evasive bomb run. It was obsolescent in 1964 although we planned to use it for a conventional stick of 21 in the far east. About 43 miles from the target the aircraft was turned at 47 deg AOB, 1.5g through 45 degrees. Wings were levelled for 15 seconds before a 90 deg turn in the opposite direction. Wings were again levelled 30 seconds before the manoeuvre was repeated. The next steady leg was 15 seconds before the aircraft was rolled on to its attack heading about 15 miles from the target. As the forward throw was 7 miles, bomb release was after 60 seonds straight and level. Hopefully this would defeat a single SA2 missie site.
2B was a practice run against an x-band jammer. The jammer was from old B50s.
2C was a practice run against multiple x-band jammers. By 1964 this was not used as we only had one jammer.
2D was an operational popup attack to about 25,000 feet for a Blue Danube (Valiant) or Red Beard Attack.
2E was an operational popup attack to 11,000 feet with a one minute run to the release point some 2 miles from the target. Exposure to SAM impact was 112 seconds but popup to bomb release was 120 seconds. This was abandoned and we used the 2H instead.
2F was an operational laydown attack. At first it was limited to the Vliant equipped with Big E and Little E. From 1966 the Mk 2 Vulcan carried the WE177B and able to adopt the laydown attack as well. The introduction of the Mk 117 tail unit for the 1,000lb bomb allowed the force to make conventional laydown attacks.
2G was an operational popup attack from a low level approach and a pull up to 8,000 feet for release of 21,000lbs of bombs. This was 1,000 feet above light tripple A. REALLY!
2H was an operational pullup attack similar to a loft. The aircraft was navigated to a precise point dependent on the mark of aircraft and rotated through a specific angle. In the case of the Mk2 Vulcan with was 18,350 yards and 15 degrees. The Mark 1 PUP was about 21,500 yards. Weapon release was as the aircraft passed 10,500 feet in the climb. After tests, the Mark 1 crews realised they could complete an automatic bomb run using the NBC. It had a lower limit of 7,000 feet and could easily cope with the 10,000 foot per minute climb. Exposure to Yellow Sun impact was about 103 seconds, comfortably ahead of the expected SA2 impact at 112 seconds.
2J was an operational pullup attack to 2,500 feet for a release of 21,000 lb of bombs. It was below the lower limit of the SA2. The quicker of you will have noticed that it was nicely in the AAA envelope.
There was also an attack where the approach was at 45,000 feet followed by a rapid descent to 18,000 feet, above the NBC 2 lower limit of 17,200 feet, for a conventional, level attack. It would have been ideal in the Falklands where there was no medium level AD.
The Blue Steel aircraft would make equipment 3 attacks.
Equipment 3 was a convoluted, simulated missile profile with the aircraft following the Blue Steel guidance package. The difference being that the BS would have climbed to 65,000 feet and flown at 1.6 mn.
Perhaps a BS crew can follow up with the rest of the variations.
The LP profiles will be added later when I have got over typists RSI.
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The answer to the topic question is: "no, never had that pleasure" but, going back to the CW days, did you tin triangle guys ever spare a thought for the Whistling Wheelbarrows who carried your bits to the dispersal sites?
We too would get the call in the middle of the night and end up in Mac or some other Godforsaken place. Mind you, the Scotch and kippers compensated.
Sitting here now in this Central Asian "-stan" with its crumbling red stars and reading this thread has rather made me think.....
Anyway: Did You Fly the Argosy??
We too would get the call in the middle of the night and end up in Mac or some other Godforsaken place. Mind you, the Scotch and kippers compensated.
Sitting here now in this Central Asian "-stan" with its crumbling red stars and reading this thread has rather made me think.....
Anyway: Did You Fly the Argosy??
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Hirstute,
As V-crew we never met the truckies. Only groundcrew had that priviledge. Anyway we had no sympathy for you as we always believed that you KNEW in advance when the call was going to come.
Sorry if it was as big a surprise to you too.
Those were the days.
As V-crew we never met the truckies. Only groundcrew had that priviledge. Anyway we had no sympathy for you as we always believed that you KNEW in advance when the call was going to come.
Sorry if it was as big a surprise to you too.
Those were the days.
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Swinderby passing out
I passed out from Swinderby on Wed Nov 2nd 83 and had a Vulcan as the flypast.
My mother still rememberd how we presented arms 5 seconds before the aircraft came over the back of the visitor's stand and roared over us at what felt like 200 feet.
Don't suppose any of you old sweats were flying the thing ?
My mother still rememberd how we presented arms 5 seconds before the aircraft came over the back of the visitor's stand and roared over us at what felt like 200 feet.
Don't suppose any of you old sweats were flying the thing ?
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BEagle. Many thanks for the kind words. They were great times on the triangular mean machine. A major prat you don't mention was the captain on 35, the self-proclaimed intergalactic in-door hockey champion, whose chat up line on the beaches of Malta was that he was leader of the Vulcan formation team! Have just written a piece comparing the Vulcan with the B-1B for AIR International. If only the RAF had gone for an upgraded Vulcan B.3.
As an aside, it was a Jerry Lee Lewis not Buddy Holly album, but what the heck! All the best.
As an aside, it was a Jerry Lee Lewis not Buddy Holly album, but what the heck! All the best.
Thread Starter
Flatiron - how the very devil are you? Good to know that you've taken to PPRuNery!
'twas my misfortune to fly with that person you recall - a real Walter Mitty. Barking b£oody mad he was - also claimed variously to have banged out of a Gnat, gone climbing mountains in Greenland - met him years later and he claimed he'd been a covert FAC in the Malvinas war..!
I stand corrected on the album featuring your cherubic smile! We had been drinking rather a lot at the time!
Must have a look for your AIR International article!!
'twas my misfortune to fly with that person you recall - a real Walter Mitty. Barking b£oody mad he was - also claimed variously to have banged out of a Gnat, gone climbing mountains in Greenland - met him years later and he claimed he'd been a covert FAC in the Malvinas war..!
I stand corrected on the album featuring your cherubic smile! We had been drinking rather a lot at the time!
Must have a look for your AIR International article!!
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BEagle. I got to thinking about some of the better characters on the Vulcan force. You are too young to remember Arthur 'Bootsie' Griffiths, but he was boss of 101 in the early Sixties. He was an awesome character, and even his own crew feared him. One day his Nav Al Capp rushed into the crewroom shouting, 'He spoke to me, he spoke to me.' 'What did he say, Al?' '**** off Capp.' The Griffiths crew were responsible for that wonderful scrape on Alert. They had set the B.1A for rapid start, locked the door and gone back to the crew room. When the hooter went, they all rushed out. On the B.1A the Crew Chief could start the engines via the Simstart trolley, and as the crew leaped out of the Crew Coach Bootsie shouted to the co-pilot, 'Give me the door key.' 'I haven't got it,' said Tony Woodford, 'you must have it.' 'I haven't ****ing got it,' replied Bootsie and so the altercation went on while a B.1A, fully laden with 33 tons of fuel, was bouncing up and down, held in place by nothing more than increasingly fragile chocks. In the end, they had to resort ot the fire axe. I got to know Bootsie later on when he was an AVM in charge of the RAF Regt!
Another Vulcan CO who made boss of the Regt was Bobby Robson. Married to a Cadbury heiress, he didn't really need to care about careeer niceties, but he was an outstanding navigator. When he took over 27, they had just taken over the Maritime Radar Recce role. That involved long 7-hr flogs over the oggin, and the Plotters started to whinge (what else is new?) about the work load. Bobby went off one day, completed an immaculate chart in Lettraset while airborne, and pinned it up on the Sqn noticeboard without comment. End of debate.
Finally, one the great modern Vulcan bosses, John Prideaux. A native of British West Hartlepool, JP was a renaissance man. Great pilot, musician, raconteur. He also had a fond spot for the gee-gees. In the late 70s, RAF morale was low because we never got any real pay rises from Jim Callaghan, so John bought an old nag for £25, called it 'IX Sqn,' entered it at Market Rasen and took the whole Sqn off for a day at the races. The Daily Mail printed a story about rich RAF toffs and JP was in the dwang because the RAF hierarchy had been banging on about how poor we were. If you are ever near a royal and ancient golf club north of the border, and you want a laugh, drop in to see JP and ask him to tell you some Bushy Ward (another Vulcan boss) stories.
There must be many other stories about Vulcan characters. This is an excellent site to capture them.
Another Vulcan CO who made boss of the Regt was Bobby Robson. Married to a Cadbury heiress, he didn't really need to care about careeer niceties, but he was an outstanding navigator. When he took over 27, they had just taken over the Maritime Radar Recce role. That involved long 7-hr flogs over the oggin, and the Plotters started to whinge (what else is new?) about the work load. Bobby went off one day, completed an immaculate chart in Lettraset while airborne, and pinned it up on the Sqn noticeboard without comment. End of debate.
Finally, one the great modern Vulcan bosses, John Prideaux. A native of British West Hartlepool, JP was a renaissance man. Great pilot, musician, raconteur. He also had a fond spot for the gee-gees. In the late 70s, RAF morale was low because we never got any real pay rises from Jim Callaghan, so John bought an old nag for £25, called it 'IX Sqn,' entered it at Market Rasen and took the whole Sqn off for a day at the races. The Daily Mail printed a story about rich RAF toffs and JP was in the dwang because the RAF hierarchy had been banging on about how poor we were. If you are ever near a royal and ancient golf club north of the border, and you want a laugh, drop in to see JP and ask him to tell you some Bushy Ward (another Vulcan boss) stories.
There must be many other stories about Vulcan characters. This is an excellent site to capture them.
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V Bomber Photo
Have a very rare photo of Vulcan, Victor and Valiant in a V formation.
How does one post it to the site?
Have a very rare photo of Vulcan, Victor and Valiant in a V formation.
How does one post it to the site?
Thread Starter
Flatiron - presumably you got to know 'Bootsie' when you were having the odd morning cuppa with the lovely lady Campers on the Common a few miles down the A34 from this part of the world?
We certainly had some characters in the pre-IiP, PC, ERB, KPI days when fun was allowed, nay, encouraged! A far, far cry from the worried, little grey men of today who Hear What You Say
!!
We certainly had some characters in the pre-IiP, PC, ERB, KPI days when fun was allowed, nay, encouraged! A far, far cry from the worried, little grey men of today who Hear What You Say
!!
Last edited by BEagle; 17th Mar 2004 at 09:44.
The Unmanned Vulcan
FlatIron,
Not doubting you (you may have been there at the time), but I always believed that the perpetrator of the unmanned Vulcan incident was a 44 Sqn Flt Cdr, one Mr Primavesi, later to become Stn Cdr at Cranwell. Did Bootsie's copilot (Tony Woodford) later become Stn Cdr at St Mawgan (early '80s)?
YS
Not doubting you (you may have been there at the time), but I always believed that the perpetrator of the unmanned Vulcan incident was a 44 Sqn Flt Cdr, one Mr Primavesi, later to become Stn Cdr at Cranwell. Did Bootsie's copilot (Tony Woodford) later become Stn Cdr at St Mawgan (early '80s)?
YS
Gnome de PPRuNe
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Milt,
Email the V-force pic to me (I've PM'd you my address) and I'll secrete it on the company web-site.
Wonderful thread!
Thanks Folks,
Treadders
Email the V-force pic to me (I've PM'd you my address) and I'll secrete it on the company web-site.
Wonderful thread!
Thanks Folks,
Treadders
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Flatiron
"Bootsie" was indeed a formidable character! He had a phobia about his crews sitting around in the crew room doing sod-all (as he saw it). Not gifted with a great memory for names, he used to look into the 101 crew room and, if he found anyone sitting there, would point at him and say "You, F*ck Off!. It was indeed "Andy Cap" who burst into the crew room one day saying jubilantly that he had "arrived" because Bootsie had said "Cap, F*ck Off"! Bootsie carried the same habit on to when he was commanding Waddo. Great man. Everyone was sh*t scared of him, including most of the trogs at HQ 1 Gp. I was in his office one day when SASO came on the blower complaining that Waddo had only put up a few aircraft for what was a quite routine Groupex for which SASO had demanded maximum effort. Bootsie told him what he could do with his exercise in colourful Anglo-Saxon (or rather Celt as he was a red-haired Welshman). I seem to remember him finishing with something along the lines "If you think you can raise any more aircraft you can get your arse down here tonight and I will give you some spanners and you can f*cking well fix them yourself". And slammed down the phone.
"Bootsie" was indeed a formidable character! He had a phobia about his crews sitting around in the crew room doing sod-all (as he saw it). Not gifted with a great memory for names, he used to look into the 101 crew room and, if he found anyone sitting there, would point at him and say "You, F*ck Off!. It was indeed "Andy Cap" who burst into the crew room one day saying jubilantly that he had "arrived" because Bootsie had said "Cap, F*ck Off"! Bootsie carried the same habit on to when he was commanding Waddo. Great man. Everyone was sh*t scared of him, including most of the trogs at HQ 1 Gp. I was in his office one day when SASO came on the blower complaining that Waddo had only put up a few aircraft for what was a quite routine Groupex for which SASO had demanded maximum effort. Bootsie told him what he could do with his exercise in colourful Anglo-Saxon (or rather Celt as he was a red-haired Welshman). I seem to remember him finishing with something along the lines "If you think you can raise any more aircraft you can get your arse down here tonight and I will give you some spanners and you can f*cking well fix them yourself". And slammed down the phone.
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Walter Mitty
Ref: BEagle's Post.
If we are talking about the same individual, he also claimed to have played International Rugby for Wales, climbed in Nepal etc etc. If you believed him, and many did, he was quite a remarkable Walter Mitty! It just goes to show, if the fibs are big enough, you are believed and get on quite well! Sad fact of life!!
If we are talking about the same individual, he also claimed to have played International Rugby for Wales, climbed in Nepal etc etc. If you believed him, and many did, he was quite a remarkable Walter Mitty! It just goes to show, if the fibs are big enough, you are believed and get on quite well! Sad fact of life!!
Last edited by Dendmar; 18th Mar 2004 at 10:28.
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He also got so drunk at Goose Bay that our excellent Nav Radar (Mongo) had to invite Mac McG our crew chief to find a convenient 24 hour delay snag to allow time for the ar$e to sober up sufficiently. Crew loyalty meant that we kept schtum....
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I was at an air show in New Zealand yesterday, and I'm sure i heard that one of the pilots in the RNZAF CFS display team was a former Vulcan pilot. He had completed an exchange tour with the RNZAF and came back for good! Jim Pedley? Pegler?
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Herewith Milt's excellent V Force pic...
Says Milt:
"The photo attached is a formation in echelon and as far as I know was part of the only photo opportunity for getting the three Vs together.
All three were test aircraft at Boscombe Down in 1958. We were about to show them at various bases around the UK as part of Battle of Britain fly pasts.
I was flying the Vulcan and I suggested we also launch a Meteor VII with a photographer to capture a few shots."
Says Milt:
"The photo attached is a formation in echelon and as far as I know was part of the only photo opportunity for getting the three Vs together.
All three were test aircraft at Boscombe Down in 1958. We were about to show them at various bases around the UK as part of Battle of Britain fly pasts.
I was flying the Vulcan and I suggested we also launch a Meteor VII with a photographer to capture a few shots."
Last edited by treadigraph; 24th May 2007 at 18:26. Reason: Added Milt's V-Force pic back in after rediscovering it...