Disgusting Jetstar
 

I am DISGUSTED to see jetstar using the AFP to taser a man in Perth who just wanted to be seated with his infant and wife.
NO EXCUSES, Jetstar should have accommodated this man.
I don't care if they are worried about weight and balance, there is NO EXCUSE for separating a father from a new born.
All the dumb arse crew had to do to make it work was a seat swap with another passenger, or be fair and reasonable and re-calculate the W&B.
BUT NO ...... Jetstar megalomaniac crew in their complete lack of experience and professionalism and humanity, decided to call in the dogs and destroy this family with tasers.
PATHETIC JETSTAR. NO EXCUSES.
https://www.9news.com.au/national/bo...d-ae054bcf5767

Is anyone surprised?, welcome to Australia in 2023. He probably wasnt wearing the right mask or had the wrong papers so he "deserved" it !

People do not get tasered for being model citizens. Likely more went on than what was shown on that short video clip.

Other punters on board said he did nothing wrong (other than the seat issue)

Er... Criminals get arrested, or isn't that how things happen these days?

Yea, 3 hours apart from your family ain't going to be the end of it all. Get up, listen to the crew, sit where you are directed to. There is always a reason why they're asking you to move (even if you've done nothing wrong).

Jetstar issue
 

Perhaps Jet* should have said that it is important that a passenger assigned to a seat for take off and landing is on the passenger/seat manifest. If there is a prang they can know the details of passenger XX in seat YY. After take off then a seat rearrangement can be arranged.

I saw no mention of that by the cabin crew person. Did the cabin crew person know that?

The passengers don’t know aviation law so can’t be the judge on whether or not this guy did something wrong, which he did. Firstly he failed to comply with the lawful directions of the cabin crew on what seat he needed to sit in. Secondly he failed to comply with the police’s instructions to come with them off the aircraft.

Passengers don’t run the cabin and don’t arrange their own seat swaps.

It could have been weight and balance, or just the fact he swapped all on his own. Whatever it is, the CC’s instructions are lawful.

We also don’t know what preceded that conversation because the video recording only starts from when the CC told the guy he wasn’t going to be allowed to fly. As the video shows he is clearly being belligerent, whatever the cause, and is probably not going to comply with other instructions from the crew inflight.

Friends don't let friends fly Jetstar.

What happens now is there is a massive amount of disrespect for those in authority. Everyone wants to argue with you and think they know better. This situation got totally out of hand because of this. People need to suck it up and follow instructions. It’s the law.
I feel for young Cabin Crew who face this everyday.

Good lesson for all passengers. If you want to get to your destination with minimum fuss, do as instructed. You don't have to like the instructions but you must follow them.

Looks like this chap failed to get his family booked in seating together. Not sure how that is Jetstar's fault. He says on the video "Go and get the police, I will move when they come". So, how is this Jetstar's fault again and in which way is this pathetic or disgusting? I feel for the cabin crew who are simply following the instructions of their company and the regulator but also for the AFP having to deal with yet another individual putting themselves ahead of the collective.

Rules are Rules, If you don't follow cabin crew directions then you are breaking them. Whether you think it's right or wrong the crew acted within their boundary. It's not a bus, tram or Light rail, you are given a seat which is probably for a safety reason ( weight/balance) then you sit in it.

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....ba113cdf6.jpeg

You forgot to mention something about being a sovereign citizen and disregarding authority

Judging from your sensationalist, emotive language and your strategic use of Caps, I have little doubt that you’re a journo looking for some sort of response from an “aviation professional” that you can publish.

”Call in the dogs and destroy the family with tasers”. There’s a job waiting for you as a Republican White House press Secretary.

And FYI, Jetstar (nor any other Airline), have to accomodate ANYONE (see what I did there?).
The Crew acted completely within the powers given to them under the Regulations.

Back to Ambulance chasing for you.

This is a lose/lose situation for everybody. Yes, of course the CC, Police, Jetstar and Captain were operating within their legal rights.

Jetstar loses because they look like a totally unhelpful, nasty, cheap airline. Marketing fail. Many people swap seats; maybe not before takeoff though.

Cabin crew because the highest form of the CC art is to get people to do your bidding and enjoy it. Qantas CC used to be absolute masters of the game. Jetstar CC are now painted as aggressive little bullies.. They lost the minute they threatened the pax. Professionalism? Fail.

‘’The AFP - they have better things to do than extract idiots from aircraft - they should have been able to get this guy to understand what was going to happen. Professionalism- fail.

The idiot pax. Congratulations! You now potentially have a criminal record and a place reserved on a “no fly” list. You can forget getting a visa for the USA. You now have a traumatised wife and child as well.

‘’There is quite enough mud to splatter everyone.

It’s the me me me generation. If this guy does end up on a no fly list, how often do buses go from Perth to the Eastern States?

Are you seriously telling me that two passengers swapping seats is critical to weight and balance? If so that is not a plane I'd want to fly on!

Perhaps the argument that identifying people by seat numbers after a crash on take off is valid but in reality there will be far more important questions to answer and identifying people by DNA is available anyway so not really a valid argument.

Good PR for the company though. (I identify that as sarcasm as so many people seem to miss it these days!)

In regards to minor operational matters like seat issues, menu problems, luggage fees, overhead bin issues, if the crew give an instruction whether you like it or not, and whether one is more right vs the other, for the love of god just follow what they say.

I had an issue the other month, passengers kicked out of Row 1, yes, ground crew stuffed up as per usual, no surprises there, passengers upset, however my crew gave options, yet they didn’t listen to a single word we said. They just wanted to negotiate. Yes, we screwed them over, but it was now 15 minutes post departure. I told the crew to give them the stay or go ticket. Again wanted to argue. I asked the AFP to remove them for failing to take instructions from my crew. Amazed it didn’t make the news.

I believe cabin crew have the ability to swap allocated seats quickly and easily using their Ipad in their hand. I believe they do it all the time for able bodied passengers and it seems so quick and easy.

I have observed this as a passenger a few times.

If it is even swap, then it makes no difference to weight and balance.

I think some just love a good power trip. Thats all it was. They don't care about the people who pay their wages.

Sure it is a regulation that you must comply with instructions from cabin crew, but seems some just love to exercise this right to provoke and kick people out all the time. (From what appears on the news all the time).

Didn't Jetstar have free unallocated seating when they first launched?

I believe certain zones were blocked to keep within balance limits but otherwise sit wherever you want.

Suddenly now its a criminal offence and safety hazard if you swap one row.

Sorry John "I believe cabin crew have the ability to swap allocated seats quickly and easily using their Ipad in their hand"
Not correct.
The pax manifest held digitally at the departing station is the master doc and is a legal requirement. The crew ipad uploads from that, not in reverse. It serves for identification purposes in the event of "the sh1t really hitting the fan" and feeds into the weight and balance calcs (minor issue here on a 200 odd ton a/c)
The message is simple, do as you are bloody told or put on those Nike's and start walking.

So how did they get away with "free seating (unallocated)" when they first launched?

As I said, nobody ever cared about seating and identification purposes wasn't ever a consideration (CASA/the airline/the crew)

If it's a mutal swap (as I said), it has no effect at all.

Your argument is invalid.

The growth of bureaucracy in Australia
 

Of course it is true that the CC have the authority to enforce a seat allocation.

But from a safety perspective there are surely no W&B issues on that aircraft. It won't be loaded with any remote chance of being out of envelope at any stage if one person moves.
If the manifest seat allocation is wrong by one seat and there is a prang then that fact is most unlikely to inhibit the ATSB investigation.
So in reality someone moving seats on a 200 ton aircraft is a non event.

But Australian bureaucrats are progressively getting a greater control over the public with needless and excessive Bureaucratic rules. (Inherited from the Brits I suspect). Aviation is a major victim.

This is just another example, and every participant has lost.
SB.

Whatever happened to crew using their initiative?
Weight and balance of one passenger moving seats??? Are any of you actual pilots?

Why wasn't identity an issue back then?

Jetstar Free seating

Yes, perhaps to an airline more accommodating?

A mutal seat should easily be accommodated. I see this happen all the time as a passenger, including being asked to move myself.

It's not rocket science.

Situation: A father wants to be seated next to his infant child and wife.

Best solution: Taser the father into submission and arrest him.

Rules are for the guidance of wise people and strict adherence and enforcement of fools. Although I realise that there are always at least three sides to any story, it seems to me that there wasn't the necessary critical mass of wise people in the vicinity of this situation.

ait that the truth. It’s everywhere. Just yesterday I was walking my dog when some bloke dressed in navy blue with ‘Inspector’ on his very important epaulettes stopped me and demanded to see if I was carrying poo bags. Got the response he deserved, and it wasn’t polite.

He did ask for the police, but sill refused to comply. Obviously he is just a $#@&.

Happy to see he got what he asked for.

Let’s not forget it’s the Captains authority as delegated to a flightie. The flighties have zero direct powers. Had a similar situation myself the other day, one bloke assigned a seat away from his missus, flightie comes up “can I swap a to b and b to a” yes I say, let’s go……

it ain’t difficult………

Maybe cabin crew should be to never use weight and balance as an excuse. Just state it's company policy instead.
I do the same as PoppaJo. Always give the passenger the option. The vast majority of the time the passenger does not travel. Sometimes they do. An important aspect of all this is this is will this passenger cause further problems? What is going to happen during the flight? Do you want to wear that risk?

As for weight and balance, the computer can put the aircraft right on the edge where one person moving will throw it out. Obviously there are safety margins which make it safe, but before departure if the computer says no then you don't depart.

When you book into Jetstar you are informed you may be separated from your travelling companions unless you pay extra to get allocated seats. It’s this money grab that irks me.

Surely if you have one booking for two or three people the seat allocating algorithm should be able to sit you together most of the time. Instead the airline uses a threat of separation to illicit extra payment for seat allocation.

It would be interesting to know if families are deliberately separated to incentivise the extra payment for future travel.

It never ceases to amaze me that there are so many pilots and flight crew out there who could (and perhaps have!) successfully manage an emergency in-flight, but apparently can't negotiate or de-escalate a difficult situation with a fellow human being. It indicates a concerning lack of empathy. As an aside - CASA seems to be obsessed with preventing autistic people getting a medical certificate, yet I've met many pilots who I'm nearly certain were somewhere on the spectrum judging by their inability to empathise and read social cues.

If you think that someone being tasered is an appropriate way to resolve a dispute over where someone is seated you should seek help. Obviously it's the AFP that have done the tasering, but the fact that the crew were unable to negotiate with a man that was reportedly not being aggressive or violent says a lot about how little emphasis is placed on customer service training and dispute resolution at Jetstar.

I wonder if the Captain or FO went down to have a reasonable discussion with him and to listen to his concerns? Not mentioned in the article.

He was not tasered over the seat issue. His refusal to follow the directions of police, dispute several warnings, lead to the forceful removal from the aircraft.

There's always one !!!!!!!!!

Better put a lock on the crapper then.
And cancel in-flight service.

Come on Capt Fathom, don't be disingenuous. How did the situation escalate to that point with someone who, according to witnesses, was not being aggressive or violent? That's the point I'm trying to make.

Numerous flights international and internal over nearly a decade, some years ago, and not once did I see an incident in the cabin. Now whether the ticket paying public have become more anti-social, less law abiding (yes, they have) or whether CC have become more megalomanic (yes, they have) is debatable on who threw the first rock. On that both sides fed of each other. There is nothing like an over-the-top Karen type person to cause an equal response.

I'm amazed you think the entire aircraft needs to wait while an idiot thinks he can negotiate with crew and police using brinksmanship. He obviously missed this life lesson back when he was four years old.

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

So there’s a few things going on here.

Regarding the issue of “should have paid to sit together”. Fine as a general statement but in reality no one on here knows when the ticket was booked, what was available at the time, etc. I also know from personal experience that I sometimes get stuck in a “loop” on the JQ website when trying to pay for seats, where the payment page sends me back to the seat selections page, then that sends me to the payment page, which sends me back to the seat selection page. I have reported it when I’ve had time to phone up to resolve (I think 3 times) and each time the call centre are “very sorry” and will “pass it on”.
So it’s not necessarily as simple as “should have paid to sit together”.

Now of course as widely known by those in the industry, crew directions are to be followed. However, when two pax both wish to swap (one to sit next to family, one being nice and permitting the person to sit next to their family) it is not as complicated as they are making it seem. I don’t work for JQ and never have. I use Sabre and swapping pax like this can be done in about 20 seconds, even if it involved re opening the flight. Maybe 60 seconds maximum for a new user. So, if two pax have swapped like this there are ways to resolve it that don’t need to involve the “I AM THE BOSS DO AS I SAY” attitude from the staff. Compassionate grounds to exist.

PR, Passenger Comfort, and OTP would have all been better by resolving this in a common sense (non red tape) way.

There is no doubt that the instructions from the crew SHOULD have been followed, but also no doubt that it WOULD have been quicker and easier to resolve by permitting and facilitating the swap. His actions were manifestly different to, let’s say, refusing to put out a cigarette.

As stated above - No one wins here unfortunately.

Sorry but you are all missing the point, the MOMENT a passenger refuses to obey a Cabin Crew instruction they have committed an offence. Now I realise we live in a world where individuals feel they are too ‘special’ to have pesky rules apply to them but it is against the law regardless. He was asked to move, he wouldn’t, he even admits he requested the police presence. Cabin Crew did NOT instruct the cops to use the taser, this idiot obviously wound the police up to the point they felt this was an appropriate use of force. If you side with the passenger then what next, allow people to vape? Sit with no belt on?……. Why should the crew spend time ‘facilitating the move’, there is a reason the terms and conditions say if you want to be seated together then you have to pay the $5 for assigned seating. He ticked that box and then thought he would be cleaver and arrange the reseating himself.