There seems to have been a blanket of silence since the departure of TLS.
Wonder if the deck is now being re-shuffled.

ZNA positioning Bne-Syd today.....

Is that a tech stop on the way to the USA?

Had to fly to Sydney first to ensure a full complement of management pilots could then operate the US sector :}

Didn’t Management say it would be a “ Longest Since “ decision process for the noble ferry cause ?
Surely all the seagulls have more pressing issues to attend to, than a States jolly followed by a forced quarantine induced Netflix binge upon return ?

Really who cares. Makes sense to use anyone that is still current rather than put someone through the sim etc just to do one sector. I say let management do it. They are on the payroll and probably current so good luck to them.

If it was offered to me I would turn it down. Couldn’t be bothered getting current and then the quarantine implications.

Valid point, except the 4-6 weeks pay (paid for Quarantine remember), equates to about 4-6 months pay for the minimum wage casual jobs outside of aviation that many of us currently find ourselves doing.

Derfred

Apologies to all for mentioning the war again (ie: what year increment does a CR return on)

Thanks for the tips from previous week & the well intentioned effort etc

My view was that EBA10 is a plain english document & that as nothing is mentioned re: CR & what year service level
you return on , that you would return on year 1 & then B scale SO if A350 is ordered. So unless QF have stated in writing something different
ie: that your years of service will be credited in a similar way to medical terminations , then nothing to discuss

Maybe there is some case law that gives credence to a different argument & that's all very interesting for QC's go to Federal courts , frock up & jump around. Not sure how that will assist guys who get re-employed after CR , who get told take it or leave it mate. Thought the efforts of AIPA should be focused on securing a better deal for CR & also LWOP , VR also instead of getting heads on the telly re: the pilotkeeper concept. Very surprising AIPA didn't try to lock QF in to better deals in the event of CR (ie: priority for "group jobs", years of service credited, no B scale) ; must have just slipped their mind

People have made their choices my view was that accrual of annual leave & lsl & yearly service increments over 3 years on stand down as an upside
wasn't worth the risk of CR & coming back years from now on year 1/B scale. If somebody rolls the dice & wins well all power to you , that's great
just not the kind of bet I would take

I know guys keep repeating "there is no surplus"(to me it just sounds like the virgin guys who kept repeating "we have 1/1.4 billion cash) , I see all the parked aircraft so I don't subscribe to that viewpoint & I note AJ talked about AC & ANZ reducing fleet size by 50% & 30% respectively on four corners. Still think a pretty good chance of CR unfortunately, QF have followed
the process outlined to the letter up to this point, firstly offer VR & lwop & early retirement, then you can move to CR

Does anyone think another VR would be offered prior to any CR ?

I don't think many would have predicted Australia segmenting as it has, I don't think any significant domestic this year (hope I am wrong)

You should probably read the EBA mate.

Qantas identified the numbers. Which is well publicised. The VR & ER package dealt with that longer term surplus.

The LWOP & bypass conditions deal with the short term surplus Qantas have now. As TLS put it - ‘variabilisation’ of the costs. 5% costs for 5% flying as we scale up.

If Qantas announce that more aircraft will be retired, another number of surplus positions will be announced. VR packages will be offered + LWOP and then if that fails to address the numbers, CR will commence.

There is presently no identified surplus and the previous one has been dealt with.

So stop trying to scare people. The rest of us are realists. If our number comes up and we end up on the retrenchment list. Such is life sometimes.

Well that might be your view that there is no surplus , I don't accept that & think surplus is around 500

& that is based on the fact that the WB are all parked & don't look like flying anytime soon. I don't accept it is
a "short term" surplus. & NB going at most 10% of normal

Not really interested what ex-employees did or didn't say . QF management have pretty much called everything wrong to date,
it's been guesswork , they(like everyone else) just don't know

No problems you expressing your view , but you are just speaking for yourself , so you should drop the royal "We"

Have read the eba many times , still reckon any CRs come back on year 1 or B scale. Not sure so many will be as nonchalant as
you & Ned Kelly if they come back on half current pay , all for the sake of continuing to accrue leave. But that is your right to have that perspective

Nice day

For what it’s worth Telfer, when you first raised the CR return issue, in my mind I agreed with you. When you are CRd you leave the company. So when you return it’s at the bottom in what ever capacity the company chooses. I haven’t read anything that changes my mind. So yes, if an A380 SO was CRd, they could face a significant salary drop.....In theory. I do agree with you.

However, for many reasons covered previously by many, this situation is highly improbable....seniority, cost of CR, other VR options to name a few. There are more likely outcomes to chew over than that.

They (GMC) have relayed as late as today that they will need the crews into the future and that is why no more ‘redundant’ positions have been identified to date.

Doesn't an existing SO who transfers to the 787 (and I assume 350 too) only keep their existing conditions for 18 months before going onto the new T&Cs?

Interesting concept Dr , would have thought when you go on to the 787 you would get year 1 787 rates, as the years are "on category" aren't they , not years
of service for rest of fleet. The 350 rates look pretty healthy , that is for crew on the books now - if you get CR & get re-hired your hourly max as an SO is $115

No got that wrong there is pay protection for SOs going to the 787 , AIPA just forgot about pay protection for Pilots who get made redundant & come back on year 1 level & also B scale (if A350 ordered). But take huge win pay protection for 18 months if you transfer to 787 -that's the big picture stuff

Interesting comment above re: likely no CRs , - to expensive. The "back of coaster" calc I did , the CR is a no- brainer if QF want to preserve cash

The break even for CR vs stand down is at max 24 months (& you could argue even one year for A330 guys). The reason ,significant pay increments in early years as SO (at least on the A330), that alone(without even considering leave accruals) would pay for a CR for an A330 SO . The multiplier effect of getting a couple of years of service pay increments as a SO is very significant , especially for the A330 increasing approx 30% in first two years

Clearly a lot of guys here just foxing along , claiming you don't return on a B scale or year 1 after CR , "it's all in the eba" - sure it is , and a decree has been issued
stating there will be no CR - sure thing. Clearly the motivation is(or was) to keep as many people below them to absorb any CR

Ironic how AIPA didn't get current crew quarantined from the B scale

lwop/CRs ,even VRs might have been avoided or very much minimised if different strategy had been adopted , pay cut of "X" for certain number of years. AIPA
should have pushed this along , has worked so far at a number of other airlines, project pilotkeeper waste of time & energy

Incredible to hear guys state here , that is not something they would contemplate

They maintain A330 conditions (not 380) for 18 months, unless their seniority means they are essentially turning down a promotion, (obviously not an immediate issue!) in which case they would revert to 787 pay. Yr12 A330 vs 787 pay for people of that vintage. So you are right that it’s a drop either way but my point was that an A380 SO who was in theory CRd would not necessarily return as an A380 SO. But...yeah...it’s not going to happen imho so not worth more words.

Now there you go talking rubbish again. Your logic is not how the break even calculation is made for a liquid company when it comes to CR. Operational considerations/assumptions combined with cashflow are input with a 3-5 year timeframe. The logic is that it is almost always cheaper for a company confident of survival to offer VR than enforce CR over a 5 year time frame.

Additionally, globally there will be a massive strain on training resources. Where and when will all the new type courses be done? Do you remember or know about the 737 training nightmare a few years back...take that and put it on a global scale. Those company who can minimise type transfers etc will have much greater operational flexibility during the recovery. This factor, Telfer, also contributes to an operational break even decision (if actually needed).

It is why (with cost benefits obviously) overseas airlines desire to make redundancy based on type not seniority.

Maybe we should have voted no, left the EA open, had a heap of CR and then rehired on a Z scale 350 pay post covid

Telfer. What are your motives? Who do you work for? I’m pretty sure you do not have skin in this game at QF, but please correct me if you do?

Those pay rates that Telfer is talking about also presume that the A350 is enterIng service and we’re training people onto it. If that’s the case then there are likely to be lots of training/ promotion available on every other type in mainline. The re-hired S/Os aren’t going to have to worry about being on that lower pay rate for very long if that’s the case as they’ll have the ability to bid off it fairly quickly.

The official line on the webinar today was that Qantas “don’t know” what pay rate CR’d crew would be re-hired on as they’re not looking at any CRs at all in the short to medium term.

Further, Qantas are after EA variations to decrease the cost base as the fleets stand back up again. Therefore it could be relatively easy to ensure that any variation put to the vote confirms explicitly that CR’d S/Os return on their current rate when they are subsequently re-employed.So any commentary by Telfer about what rate crew would be re-employed on is quite premature unless Qantas makes crew CR within the next month or so- something they have said they will not be doing.