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Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Melbourne Posts: 226 At some point, a person on permanent stand down will look for a career elsewhere and have to resign from the airline. |
Well obviously they are not going to make many over 60s , or over 50s CR as the payout would be too high max out at 100 weeks or so, CR doubles VR
The CR for joiners from 2016 onwards is 3 weeks per year of service , so a CR is only 12 to 15 weeks, yes there is a 3 month notice period that "can" be paid out , but why would a company do that when staff currently stood down. The VR was way better than CR For those who joined 05 or so the VR about equals CR The stand down accrues leave costs (6 weeks) LSL ( 1 plus weeks) sick leave accrues (& some see that as an entitlement & will use it all) , other types of leave or benefits etc accrue?? You are nudging up towards ten weeks per year to keep people stood down - its a massive cost What do people think will happen another VR/Lwop push , nothing or CR & when Lets hope just hope flying and travel all start again , not so likely with what the border bosses are saying |
When jobkeeper ends, CR, just the national minimums initially, anything over and above that you'll wait for.
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Originally Posted by Ragnor
(Post 10867310)
One would have to think long term stand down is far better than the alternative, I don't really understand why everyone is having a problem with it (except for over 60ish you would want to be CR most likely). I for one prefer long term stand down it is costing me money but thats easily managed by getting a job and when domestic kicks off its just a simple email to me and off I go.
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Originally Posted by Telfer86
(Post 10867347)
The CR for joiners from 2016 onwards is 3 weeks per year of service , so a CR is only 12 to 15 weeks, yes there is a 3 month notice period that "can" be paid out , but why would a company do that when staff currently stood down. The VR was way better than It actually costs QF 51 days per annum to keep a pilot on stand down. (42 if less than 10 years but they’re still accruing the liability LSL albeit in 6-10 years time). Cheaper to keep the junior pilot stood down for 3 years than make them CR. In terms of SL most pilots in QF of 10+ years standing would have in excess of 6 months leave. Few actually use it. |
Originally Posted by Keg
(Post 10867503)
CR is a minimum of 26 weeks.
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15.10.4 Notice of termination due to redundancy (a) The Company must give a pilot at least three (3) months' notice of termination due to redundancy provided, that the combined period of notice and the redundancy entitlement specified in clause 15.10.5 will not be less than 26 weeks. Notice must, at a minimum, be in writing by way of letter to each respective pilot sent to his or her nominated residential address and placed in his or her Company mailbox. (b) By agreement with an individual pilot, a notice of redundancy may be paid out, varied or withdrawn. ‘ 15.10.5 Redundancy entitlement The following package will apply to a pilot who is made compulsorily redundant: (a) three (3) weeks' pay for each completed year of service up to and including five (5) years' service, with a minimum of four (4) weeks' pay; (b) four (4) weeks' pay for each completed year of service in excess of five (5) years; and (c) pro-rata payment for each completed month of service. Calculation of service does not include any period or periods of LWOP. The payments set out in this clause 15.10.5 do not include payment in lieu of notice. |
Ahhh ok thanks. Lets hope it doesn't come to it.
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Well that is an excellent policy then - the guy in the street would get that after 13 years
Virgin just give 2 weeks per year (stat mins ?) then caps at 16 weeks when you have done 9 years Why did they ever agree to that ? My understanding is that two weeks per year is mins , 4 weeks per year is exceptionally good (QF guys get) & six weeks per year is hollywood stuff - has occurred but very rarely LSL is a liability on the balance sheet , it gets paid out pro-rata on departure. Many other types of leave in the contract , so I don't think it is just as simple to look at annual leave. The various leave accruals also attract superannuation payments , by the time everything is added likely north of 80 days pa to keep someone stood down real cost of employing someone - take their wage & add 30 % , everyone has their hand in your pocket - state/fed govt taxes/charges , does the company have to pay super on top of the JK payments ? |
Originally Posted by C441
(Post 10867307)
Probably, but the difficulty is that neither the EA or Fair Work place any defined time limit on stand-downs, so it comes down to an argument over what constitutes conditions beyond the employer’s control unless another avenue can be found.
Originally Posted by Xeptu
(Post 10867377)
When jobkeeper ends, CR, just the national minimums initially, anything over and above that you'll wait for.
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Originally Posted by Telfer86
(Post 10867539)
does the company have to pay super on top of the JK payments ?
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Originally Posted by normanton
(Post 10867519)
Ahhh ok thanks. Lets hope it doesn't come to it.
Unbelievable. |
Originally Posted by dr dre
(Post 10867572)
Some form of Border restrictions (not necessarily closures but vaccine requirements or individual country restrictions) will probably exist for a few years. In any case FWA have said they’ll be allowing employers as much flexibility as they need to keep their business afloat, with probably no disagreement from the current government. So my guess is stand downs will be for as long as they need them.
The ending of Jobkeeper will have zero effect on whether or not further redundancies are enacted or stand downs are ended. Stand downs were announced well before Jobkeeper came into existence. Jobkeeper may be extended for aviation employees beyond March? But I think the announcement of it’s planned ending was to give affected employees plenty of time to organise alternative income well in advance of it’s cessation. |
Originally Posted by Xeptu
(Post 10867981)
Jobkeeper will end and there won't be any special deals for the airlines that are not available to any other stood down/unemployed australian.
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My 2 Bobs’
Sadly for all the suffering VA employees, Bain will enact their exit strategy once the reality of the future domestic market is without doubt. Qantas domestic will grow back slowly. Qantas International will be Nationalised by the Government. |
I should have said Airline Employees as opposed to Airlines
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As this Covid business seems it will drag on beyond Xmas . QF will likely go into Voluntary Administration early in the new year .
This would allow a full reset of EBA agreements and if you don’t like it leave scenario . It’s QFs best play to level the playing field and rebuild totally on their terms . |
Originally Posted by Rabbitwear
(Post 10868022)
As this Covid business seems it will drag on beyond Xmas . QF will likely go into Voluntary Administration early in the new year .
This would allow a full reset of EBA agreements and if you don’t like it leave scenario . It’s QFs best play to level the playing field and rebuild totally on their terms . |
Originally Posted by Rabbitwear
(Post 10868022)
As this Covid business seems it will drag on beyond Xmas . QF will likely go into Voluntary Administration early in the new year .
This would allow a full reset of EBA agreements and if you don’t like it leave scenario . It’s QFs best play to level the playing field and rebuild totally on their terms . Covid sanctioned Phoenixing ? The basis of every HR/IR wet dream ? |
Originally Posted by Xeptu
(Post 10868025)
And it can't be ruled out as a key strategy moving forward, one I was reluctant to post here myself
No company wants to go into voluntary admin, if this were the case every financial year every company with a unionised workforce would just 'reset'. There's a lot more at stake than just reputation going into voluntary admin, go have a read of the Virgin thread or better yet, go do an MBA and come back with some actual knowledge. Take off the tin-foil and head outside for your one hour of exercise please. Your garbage is clogging up this thread. |
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