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-   -   Alan vs VA (https://www.pprune.org/australia-new-zealand-pacific/630815-alan-vs-va.html)

chookcooker 2nd Apr 2020 03:02


Originally Posted by non_state_actor (Post 10736304)
I'd take it as given there will be no bailout and unless the country gets moving by about July it will be all over. 'Senior Government Sources' is usually a euphemism for a Minister or the PM. Stand around demanding a direct quote if you like but I personally would take that as 'writing on the wall'.

Branson has gone all woke and will probably be glad that he is no longer responsible for increasing Global Warming. He'll just retire in the Caribbean with who knows how many Billions in tax havens.

Never demanded a direct quote at all, simply asking where the government had gone on the record.

which they haven’t. Not yet anyway.

Renton Field 2nd Apr 2020 03:20

If it’s not an attributed quote it could be literally anyone:PM,Minister,Public Service hack leaking,Q media or the journos imagination...pick one..

Progress Wanchai 2nd Apr 2020 03:28


Originally Posted by normanton (Post 10736283)
O'leary would hate it here. So many labour law protections and workers actually have rights.

Absolute nightmare.

The absolute nightmare will be Australia’s post COVID-19 labor laws.

If you think ScoMo and his merry band of conservatives are throwing money at the working class without expecting a quid pro quo when it’s time to rebuild the economy then it’s time for a reality check. EBA’s will become the exception with many companies unable to pay even the Award. Hiring and firing rules will be relaxed to the point of being irrelevant.

The Coalition is probably the best party to lead the government right now but the workers paradise that Australia used to be is probably gone for a very long time. It’ll make Jeff Kennett’s rebuild of Victoria in the 90’s look like a picnic.

Dragun 2nd Apr 2020 03:42


Originally Posted by non_state_actor (Post 10736304)
I'd take it as given there will be no bailout and unless the country gets moving by about July it will be all over. 'Senior Government Sources' is usually a euphemism for a Minister or the PM. Stand around demanding a direct quote if you like but I personally would take that as 'writing on the wall'.

Branson has gone all woke and will probably be glad that he is no longer responsible for increasing Global Warming. He'll just retire in the Caribbean with who knows how many Billions in tax havens.

Remember there is a political game at play here. The government can't be seen to be just saying 'yes' to any bailout immediately and definitely not until the 11th hour. "On the record" simply has not happened and "senior government sources" is a political play to dupe the masses - of which you appear to be one. I'm not saying it's a guarantee, but when they've essentially bailed out SMEs with $100k interest free loans, bailed out regional aviation last weekend, specifically excluding Virgin and Qantas, are now supporting food exports and have categorically stated, on record, that Australia needs two viable airlines on the other side of this, have a think about the probability that the news today is simply part of a political play.

I still think the odds are that Virgin will be granted an 11th hour reprieve. There is too much at stake, far more than the $1.4b in lost tourism revenue and flow on effects. The most important point is that this is simply not the demise of an airline as a result of bad business in isolation - Virgin were well on their way to the black prior to this. Also, the perspective is a little skewed given there is a direct comparison with an airline that has one of the strongest balance sheets in the world, an anomaly by world standards in terms of self-surviving this unprecedented situation. The government shut down the ability for the airlines to operate. The business operation isn't failing during a period of free market capitalism, it has been prevented from operating at all. A very different situation indeed to enable Joe Public to see out businesses like Virgin through for their own benefit and I think most people understand the different between this and Ansett and other airline failures like them.

Furthermore, what happens if in 12 months Qantas are struggling due to a still subdued international market and go cap in hand to the government then asking for a bail out, when Virgin was allowed to fail 6 months earlier? This is an eventuality they also need to consider. Qantas might be ok now, but based on projections by Air NZ for example (who are expecting an international business 30% of the size it was pre-COVID 19), Qantas are definitely not out of the woods yet and are probably likely to require assistance at some point too. These are eventualities that advocates for letting VA go need to consider. If one size fits all, then it will still fit in 12 months.

Yet to be determined of course, Virgin might go under. However if anyone thinks an airline from anywhere or a new operator is going to sweep in over the next 12-24 months and pick up the slack where Virgin left off, given that balance sheets world wide will be decimated, has another thing coming. The public will have to accept a monopolised airline industry in this country for a long time and the airfares that go with it. Or, lend VA the money on favourable government terms and keep a fully operational airline along with trained staff and infrastructure on standby for the recovery. Seems like a relatively easy choice, politics aside.

Time will tell.

chuboy 2nd Apr 2020 03:55

The other factor is the sheer uncertainty of the scale of the pandemic. It's one thing to bail out an airline one month into an at-least 6 month long travel ban, bailing out an airline that needs capital to restart operations when there is clear light at the end of the tunnel is another.

If Virgin can hold on until it looks like domestic operations will imminently return to normal, then never say never. Otherwise, sadly I can't see the government preventing the collapse of the company.

directimped 2nd Apr 2020 04:43


Originally Posted by Progress Wanchai (Post 10736363)
.

The Coalition is probably the best party to lead the government right now but the workers paradise that Australia used to be is probably gone for a very long time. It’ll make Jeff Kennett’s rebuild of Victoria in the 90’s look like a picnic.

what workers paradise would that be exactly? Definitely not outside aviation.

Highly casualised workforce, low wage growth coupled with rapid increase in living costs especially in places like Sydney, high levels of immigration into the capital cities to facilitate "growth".

For the record I think both major political parties are rubbish. If there has ever been an opportunity for social and political reform then this is it. If we miss this one then we may as well give up.

Progress Wanchai 2nd Apr 2020 06:16


Originally Posted by directimped (Post 10736422)
what workers paradise would that be exactly? Definitely not outside aviation.

Highly casualised workforce, low wage growth coupled with rapid increase in living costs especially in places like Sydney, high levels of immigration into the capital cities to facilitate "growth".

For the record I think both major political parties are rubbish. If there has ever been an opportunity for social and political reform then this is it. If we miss this one then we may as well give up.

Industrial Relations reforms have been on the wishlist of the Coalition for quite some time. If you think working conditions and labor laws have swung as far as they can go in favor of business, then you really need to get out more.

Voting in free market conservatives doesn’t come without cost to someone.

directimped 2nd Apr 2020 06:24


Originally Posted by Progress Wanchai (Post 10736462)
. If you think working conditions and labor laws have swung as far as they can go in favor of business

oh yes, they can go much much further.


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