I didn’t think they were that thick!

Different market, different business. The A320 capacity moved to Network has already been back filled in JQ.

As for thickness, to still consider the QANTAS still involves QANTAS and Jetstar as mutually independent entities need to move along. QANTAS is Australian Airlines, QANTAS International, Jetstar, Easten Australia Airlines, Sunstate, Cobham and Network......Hence the QANTAS Group. Implulse and TAA fit there somewhere as well.

I agree QF need some investment in heavy metal beyond the 8 x 787’s. However capital expense of the magnitude required will drive the share price down in the interim, so it must be segregated and stagnated.

If you want to blame someone or something, look at capitalism and the share market. Business is now looking to be the new far left.

This is a tough one. Whilst I agree with the theory, as a training captain you don’t generally get a ‘say’ in who you are training unless it’s ‘I no longer wish to train.’ So unfortunately it persists.

This I couldn’t agree with more.

I still believe that many pilots are jumping at shadows when it comes to network. The mail that I’m getting from people in the know is that the original plan was to have Jetstar operating these charter flights but the customer (Fortescue Metals Group) had too many cancellations last time JQ operated the flights, as they would prioritise their RPT flights over the charters and insisted they not be operated by JQ.

This goes against the naritive of a plot by qantas to undercut pilot wages.

I’ve heard all the rumours ‘I’ve got a mate, who knows someone who heard network are getting 10 A320s.’

Even if this were true, who’s to say they won’t be just to replace the Fokker 100s?

I’m not naive enough to declare that it definitely won’t happen, but comments like ‘you’re training your own replacements’ and suggesting that network is the next Jetconnect are quite premature.

Interesting perspective that goes right to the heart of the Orwellian 1984 argument. Massive bonuses and huge pay structures are _suppsed_ to eliminate that psychology, but I see the point - it's encouraged it. The longevity of the Company (any Company - or nation) is put at risk with the 'What's in it for me' mentality.

The problem is that this 'Management' group simply cannot be trusted to make sensible decisions - ie: those in the best long term interests of the Company. Ergo, they've made such monumentally idiotic decisions over now decades that anyone who trusts them to do something sensible is a fool. Or a short term QCCC injecting room mainliner.

It is highly probable that any decision that is made by 'Management' is driven by a simple desire to reduce not just terms and conditions but also the quality of the end product.

Even suggesting this isn't the case, the evidence over (again) now decades, suggests that as they have repeatedly driven down conditions of every group they can, outsourced and sacked employees wherever they can (to the extreme detriment of the Qantas product and brand); why WOULDN'T they want to continue? It's worked SO well for them in the past (NOT!) - and frankly, an entire company of cubicle dwellers have lost the skill to do anything else.

As far as visionary leadership goes, Qf management is as far from ept as I could possibly imagine.

To accurate not to include:

Not blaming anyone? Except management.
Qantas is made up of many airlines now as you say, why do you think that is?
If you think Jetstar is immune to the crap Qantas mainline has had to put up with re being undercut you really are thicker than I thought.

The mining work conducted by JQ was done exceptionally well. I would dispute the fact the client was not happy as commercial flights were pushed to conduct the mining charters. The distinct lack of Cabin Crew base in Perth for JQ (and its prior oversight from ADL to make ADL the centre of the Mid & Western bases Universe) and of course the lower cost base of Network ( hang on I'll just check my roster at 1700 to see what I'm doing tomorrow :rolleyes: ) has helped. I'd put a few muffins on it that the F100 operation provides clients more disruptions than the Jetstar operation to the Pilbara ever did.

.

Said aircraft doesn’t seem to have done much flying since arriving (to such great fanfare, remember!). Has it even done a mining charter yet? If it’s not flying, then neither are the crews endorsed on it, who’d still be getting paid... That can’t be doing much for the old ‘lower cost base’?!

Capitalism? What passes as modern markets are not capitalist. With interest rates at 5,000 year lows and over 10 trillion Government treasury bonds negative yielding debt and risk are not priced correctly.

Thus management prefer to buy back shares rather than invest in 'new metal' when 'share price' can be juiced by leveraging the company with cheap debt. Bonus prizes as the very same management incentives hit the stratosphere...

With Qantas using nearly TWO billion of shareholder's funds to reward themselves and boost the EPS with share buy backs, that 'new metal' you talk of is nowhere to be seen.

And it won’t be. Self enrichment and chasing Asian LCC windmills (which would have been themselves spun off) have destroyed what could have been.

I saw video years ago of a Drexel Burnham Lambert Christmas party (they did good parties) featuring the band ‘Starship’ playing a feature ‘We built this city on high yield bonds’.

Just so you do believe me, there’s only a tiny clip online from a BBC docco. Interesting voiceover - ‘destruction of the old corporations’.

If you liked the movie, you'll love the books... by Connie Bruck and by James B Stewart outlining the King of junk, Milkin and his collection of pliant raiders & inside traders.

Listen carefully to Gordon Gekko in Wall Street, that's the voice of Milkin, Boesky & his ilk on how it was done. Oliver Stone's father was a stock broker and he wrote one of the most deceptively intricate inside stories on how egregious business had become in the 1980's.

Since then it has only become more refined and white collar crime has been decriminalised [Corporations are now so big they represent a "Systemic Risk" to the system and therefore can't be touched]. Stone was a genius, historians only caught up to him much later.

And as Gekko correctly surmised and I paraphrase;

'Most analysts don't know preferred stock from livestock'..

Given Qantas selectively brief 'inside analysts' the critique of any management assertion is very light weight...

Qantas still need a new fleet.

It is perhaps worth noting as IFRS16 changes mean aircraft come on balance sheet, there may well be 'depreciable' life left in the Network air frames. Hence it is entirely possible given the schedules Qantas use that there are more aircraft than they know what to do with.

From sources at EADS it would appear the 99 A320 NEOP order cannot be cancelled....

What to do, what to do! Another distraction! :D

As General Melchett indicated one of those privy to the cunning plan is the Tortoise....Alan!

Preferred stock from livestock.... I’ve quoted that to bankers and their moron valuers. And they have proved the rule.... Chairman’s Lounge anyone???

Jetstar was unable to provide the flexibility demanded by the mining companies. You have to realize they pay a good deal to get a service and what they need is the ability to make changes at late notice. Jetstar wasn’t good at this, Network was despite the reliability issues with the Fokker. We don’t check our rosters at 1700 anymore.

Got acars turned on yet?

What, to check our rosters? No, acars isn’t active.

Was just asking😁

As it emerges that Qantas was the lead protagonist for the 457 skill shortage addition of 'pilot' so it appears that they now want five years.

Rumour is the same approach is considered for Network aviation. The salary being what it is has not attracted sufficient applicants (at least applicants meeting the standard). Thus a 'shortage' exists. Mr Dutton as sharp as a bowling ball would not dare ask what happens if you improve the salary, instead expect this to be the standard play from here on in...

The question Qantas pilots now need to ask is where is Wally? What is the union proposing some seven weeks after the SGM, are they still gathering information?

What do you propose AIPA do Rated De?

Perhaps something other than a good Malcolm Turnbull impersonation

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