Given that the issue has been bubbling away for at least 10 months, platitudes and pleas for patience hardly pass the pub test.

Qantas retain many of the top tier legal and financial firms, locking out their opponents. Find one, a new one, the best you can afford. The current external legal are a known quantity, this needs new eyes.

From Jetconnect, to Network to 457 visa and arguably a pilot school, Qantas are attempting to position, having ALREADY established a strategy. Such missives from unions about 'gathering and assessing', seems a dollar short and weeks late. Maybe the Union saw the 'ceasefire' as an end to hostilities, we don't pretend to understand the psyche.

Notwithstanding,

Qantas state openly:

Section 311 of the Fair Work Act 2009 has some interesting information with respect to assets (aircraft)
In fact s311-320 are very interesting.

1. The aircraft are not now NZ registered, Qantas relied on this in 2011.
2. There never was a transfer of ownership as there never was a LEASE in place.
3. The flight number convention has the flight originating in Australia.

There are some fascinating elements to the Operating Agreement and Financial Statements.


Then again, in ten months perhaps you are right and the union hopes Qantas will 'play fair'.


Apologies to Paul Kelly, but whilst there may be two sides out there only AIPA is playing cricket.



You are absolutely correct Neville:

Fingers crossed the pilots lack cohesion, because if Fair Work were required to re-visit this matter Qantas may lose control.

Wow... so your advice is to get new lawyers. Amazing.

The only change from 2011 is the State of registration. None of the other factors have changed that were referred to in para 48 of the joint judgement. Do you really think the rego is going to change the judgement?

Gambling with taking your EBA and giving it to a 3rd party is risky. The case law on arbitrated EBAs, and indeed applications to terminate EBAs, doesn't give me a lot of comfort in going there as an employee.

Interesting day In the cubicles Justin and Reality!

There are a couple of changes since 2011. The company has been even more grossly mismanaged, thrown even more money away chasing windmills, gay pride, and paying for black fellas to tend the Australian landscape exactly as they have for Millenia, painting aircraft at a truly bizarre cost in frankly offensive manner and Im sure a few other issues that makes me consider throwing up every time I think about working for these clowns. Then there is the fact the airline is SO badly mismanaged and long term staff are SO undervalued they really don’t give a flying cubicle anymore. The sand or Peking duck might not be as green on the other side but at least you know what you get!

Joyce is a tool. An incompetent thief. I take that back, he is a competent thief. But he’s an absolutely incompetent businessman. Among many other things. He (using term under advisement) has taken a hell of gamble with a billion dollar airline. Within 10 years or so there won’t be much left. Except enormous debt to try to fix the 20ish years of incompetence. Not much to lose when looked at that way is there?

Happy cubicling! Try a pterodactyl!!

There is plenty in the FW transcript and Senate inquiry regarding Jetconnect. An airline without a fuel bill is really interesting.
As is a CEO who doesn't know the structure of his board, claims the 'capital return' was a 'book entry' and the fact that Qantas claimed independence of operation thereby pushing Jetconnect beyond the reach of Australian workplace law, is now curiously lacking.

None of those things has much to do with lifting the corporate veil in respect of employment contracts. But then again you are supposedly in 'Europe', so maybe you have a different take on things :ok:

RD sure does. Anyone not mainlining Kool Aid in the Campus injecting rooms label it ‘reality:)’

BTW: Any answer on how clean, green QF Int is going to thrive whilst it burns 170,000kgs more gas per HOUR than any of its’ competitors? Network/JC is nothing but a pathetic sideshow, clasping at straws. Tragic, but true.

That's easy. You need to have a business case that stacks up to outlay the capital for new jets, taking into account expected revenue versus cost and in light of the ever increasingly competitive international market. The argument that Qantas is currently flying less fuel efficient aircraft versus its competitors is a separate issue to whether or not the numbers add-up to buy new jets. That won't stop plenty of pprune 'experts' from treating them as the same question though.

Tell me RC. Have you visited the planet Earth recently?

Why don’t you start with Pterodactyls?

I never realised Zero Hour or its’ copy, Airplane/Flying High was going to be a future documentary on QF Management briefings.

It's the really insightful responses like this that help to remind me who is actually making the decisions and who is writing irrelevant garage on the internet.

One of us is writing irrelevant garage on the interweb, the other is asking how the hell Qf can expect to compete when it’s burning 170,000kgs EXTRA fuel EVERY, SINGLE HOUR it is in the air when compared to its’ competitors.

That’s Joyce’s great contribution to an Australian icon and flag carrier. Debt, wasted opportunity, cash extraction and personal wealth.

Irrelevant garage. Says it all really. If it’s going to be irrelevent, you may as well garage it!

Jeez I crack myself up sometimes. ‘How much longer can QF remain competitive (with that fuel burn)? About half an hour less 45 minutes!’.

I really DID choose the wrong week to quit amphetemines!

V-Jet;

Mate, they are not interested in the long term viability of QF, all of them are "what's in it for me", or more specifically "how do I achieve my KPI's". New aircraft? Just how many aircraft has been ordered by Mr Joyce? It won't take much of an oil price increase...

How many aircraft are set for Network?
 

Rumours abound of more than 15 aircraft for Network.

As mentioned, this was received from a friend at Qantas..


Pilots ought ask themselves whether Qantas is telling you the whole story and is the union up on events because Mr Joyce already told the market:
So the question pilots at Qantas and indeed Jetstar, particulalry in the West ought ask is HOW many aircraft come off lease and where will they go?

It’s a no brainer that the 320s will replace the Fokkers. So you could imagine at least as many 320s as there is now Fokkers. The question is will they replace 737s?

The writing was on the wall when no one questioned propstar.

What precisely does the union need to gather and review options for?

The fact from a well placed source that Network cannot find pilots for the 'deal' to fly A320 will be lost as the pilots prepare a 'negotiation' to surrender more ground.

It is funny as what has been tried elsewhere eventually gets back down under...

A season or so ago, this was the play in many carriers...
With union executives at ILALPA conferences one must consider whether they actually ever listen to the experience of others...

Yep. Took your post for me to come up with QF’s mission statement. Best I got from HR was ‘Qantas is a great many things to a great many people’.

Yours is so simple - and 100% accurate. ‘What’s in it for me?’

Have to get that posted on the doors of QCCC (Qantas Cubicle Campus Central) in prison camp sized letters ASAP. Staff need to know their purpose each day.

I always thought this would be closer to reality

“Arbeit macht versklavt “

Perfect! And I had to look up ‘versklav’

Yep, replacing a 100 seat aircraft with a 170 seat one (on routes that can only just support 100 seats) certainly is a no brainier :}

When Mainline earns 265% that of Jetstar according to the last financial results(EBITDAR) and the decision is made to invest in Jetstar then it is quite clear that this is an ideological decision based on no financial evidence is insane. It reeks of the insanity that almost killed Rio. Remember Jetstar has more Aircraft than Qantas now. They have been lucky the fuel hasn’t doubled because the Mothership is fast running out of options and money(except to pay bonuses of course). These people make Bernie Madoff look like an amateur! Jetstar Pilots will be training their replacements just as Mainline did with Jetconnect. Wake up Aussie Pilots, you are fast becoming your own worst enemy. The Pilot shortage MAY save you!

Those planes are painted in qantas colours not JQ and they’re taking flying off QF. No one at Jetstar is worried about losing flying.