This comment is accurate.

The threat pre Covid-19 was real that they’d outsource the flying to a new entity. And with lots leaving CX due to the issues in HKG it wasn’t a risk the pilots could take, especially as covid started to appear. Secure the plane first. Then fight it.

Bin Chicken Airlines WA was waiting to swoop in. QantasLink A350-1000 ULR 🤢 Award pay for a350 log book time. They were rubbing their hands. I seen it.

if you believed network could have done this flying you’re dumber than a one nail door stop

‘I seen it’…

I believe both fleets are working quite a lot at the moment, above min guarantee. But long term the company aims to keep hours roughly around MGH.

Perth and Adl go fairly junior too,

The only real wait was BNE, but just before Covid when recruiting was at peak that was just shy of 2 years.

Back in the “good old days” it would be closer to a decade for a BNE base FO slot, but that’s certainly a thing of the past now.

What’s your ballpark guess on junior widebody f/o in years to come with the bubble of retirements etc?

A large percentage of new hires go to mainline solely for the LH lifestyle, being the only such opportunity in Aus. So the suggestion that it's either 8+ years of making bunks (now on a B scale), or they can gleefully accept a SH FO slot on Day 1, to be flogged up and down the east coast doing 4-5 sector days, 5 days a week is hilarious.

If the condition aren’t to your satisfaction, you are free to join another airline.

Work harder get paid more? Yeah that’s how it works. In previous times there were 380 SOs on above $250k.

SO is an entry level job. The total package for new joiners with allowances will be around $140-150k, more than enough for a position that can be done with a bare CPL and 200hrs. You want more? Got to SH and make more.

It’s not the responsibility of the company to pay SOs $250k+ for a cushy lifestyle. Yes you should be paid much more for being in the front seat of any Jet than as a cruise relief pilot.

Just prior to Covid the most junior LH FO was 3 years. With continuous recruitment for any base LH FO should fall within 5-10 years.

Exactly!

Never said I believed it. They can't even properly crew their charter ops.

Doesn't mean some of their pilots there weren't getting excited over the idea. Oh, and over potentially taking Winton A321s.

so you are dumber than a one nail doorstop then

Many are and have.

Crappy conditions (B scale) just has the effect of lowering the pool of candidates.

For sure QF will always be able to have a deep hiring pool. But you have to admit, QF isn’t necessarily the envy of all Australian pilots given what else is on offer in the world.

I beg to differ. Those who have gone overseas, either went too early or didn’t make it with QF.
The 1% may have a genuine desire but you’re fooling yourself if you think otherwise.

I guess we are simply at an impasse then. The current conditions on offer are pretty sub-par compared to what is now on offer elsewhere if you take a snapshot of current conditions vs historic.

So the QF start date that I, and numerous others (that I know of) have turned down fits into which part of your first claim?

Most Aussies with a family simply don't want to live in a place like Dubai/ Qatar and don't want their kid's to go to school in the USA. Hong Kong is no longer a viable option either. There is no escaping that fact. QF will always have that advantage as the premier employer for pilots in Australia. What you might find is the people that are joining now are already jaded before they even start (especially if coming from inside the group).

And overseas isn't exactly the golden goose it's perceived to be. A lot of people are saying Atlas is a better option, having been sent a sample bid package for their 74F operation I'd beg to differ. 17 days per month of non stop work that traverses every time zone, usually 24 hrs or less free of duty everywhere, constant switching between days and nights, back of the clock 3 and 4 leg duties. I'm sure I'd personally be shattered at the end of one of those patterns, and that's without even factoring commuting in. I'd hope those guys are getting paid well because that kind of rostering is unsustainable in the long term IMO.

QF LH is without a doubt far less fatiguing.

The world is a magnificent place, and if want to see as many cities as you can during slip times, it’s probably best to go overseas as Qantas isn’t the job for you. The route network isn’t all that big, and never will be. If the actual flying stuff isn't that important to you, and you can live with going to London, Rome, or LA multiple times over a year, with the promise that home is really home, it may be a great fit. The conditions are good (even for new SO’s), and for me anyway, you don’t have to live with the fear that when the next recession hits, you are turfed out of the country for being a ”foreigner”. That probably won’t happen to those that choose overseas, and I wish them the best of Luck. I’m with dre though, that atlas gig looks far too much like hard work.

QF is still the best job in Australia, and I’d hesitate to reject a job offer, as I’m sure it only comes once, and eventually most will want to come home. You’re probably better off not applying at all until that day comes, if it comes at all.

QF long haul no doubt is less fatiguing. But you are either going to have to do 15 years in the sh*t show that is shorthaul or stay in a junior rank* for lots longer than most peoples' ambitions.

*not that there’s anything wrong with that.

Once upon a time I did rosters like the Atlas gig. I didn’t find it onerous at all. It would be interesting to cross examine a couple of Atlas senior people to get their take on the rosters.