She sounds desperate with this very immature response.:=
Simply out of her depth.

Read the comments on the article :{ we have a lot of ground to catch up.

Qantas pilots to make inflight IR pitch
 

Interestingly heard a somewhat similar pitch on American. Flying recently from SFO to HNL capt speaking objected several times to AA cutting the route "after 50 years". Urged pax to lobby against the cut and even provided email address! What next; berate SLF about carbon tax?

Unprincipled action
 

Qantas pilots are out of order with their proposed PA announcements. They are paid to fly the aeroplane, not spruik a particular industrial cause. I wonder how they'd react if the Company directed them to make an announcement deploring actions by for example the ALAEA because the Last Post was played at the end of their recent very childish one-minute stop work meeting?

Why of why aggravate what customer base you have left? If you have a fight with the Company, have it by all means but don't involve the customer. Pretty simple really but for industrial pygmies, nothing is too simple.

Note to all: I expect to be pilloried by the usual suspects as a result of this post so please don't waste your energy and bandwidth doing so. :ok:

Kenny Baby
 

Why Oh Why do you even bother wasting your bandwidth ?

Isn't this type of industrial action a bit 'childish'. I can understand a strict work to rule, or a mass walk out, but breaking uniform code and making PA's to the passengers about the campaign ??? Flights continue uninterrupted and without delay..... how is this giving management a bloody nose? :ugh:

Pardon my potential ignorance here, but with these PAs and such, aren't they simply doing what Qantas Management are already doing in the Media? Getting their side of the story out, something that doesn't seem to appear in any of the Mainstream Media out there?

Ixixly; bang on target - awareness. Get the message out there, how can this be so hard for people to comprehend?

I think it is a good idea, not childish.
Media and public picks up on the fact that pa's are a soft approach to get management negotiating without disrupting pax and damaging the bottom line.
Message spread by word of mouth.
Management needs to realise WE are holding the balls and CAN squeeze when it suits.
Game on:D

Management Trolls
 

They're baaaack !!!
No wonder Qantas is in trouble the quality of their trolls woeful

Ken we were directed to make PA's during that last engineer dispute and I can safely say that nobody followed that directive.

So in short we supported the engineers actions and refused to make PA's blaming the engineers for delays....

Maybe in the Qantas carpark then Ken at lunchtime? 1700 longhaul pilots would love to have a piece of Clifford, Joyce and Brucie!! Maybe you could turn up and help support your management mates!

Funny how Ken expects to "waste his bandwidth" having his say, but he recommends that others don't waste theirs having their say. Why is that Ken? You don't place any value in others opinions? Gee, sounds just like Qantas management, doesn't it? "We talk - you listen". Well, unlucky for you and your Qantas executives, because we are going to have our say - and you ARE GOING TO LISTEN!

Simple as this, Ken. It states quite clearly in the Qantas FAM (if you really are a management tool, then you should be aware of this - maybe you should do your job and take some time to read it...!), that Qantas pilots are EXPECTED to make PA's. So why then would you suggest that they are only paid to fly the aircraft? Well, thats not true is it? If we just did that, and paid no attention to customer service, then that could be considered to be "industrial action", couldn't it?

No Ken, I think it better that we comply with the FAM, and pay PARTICULAR attention to customer service. We should ENSURE that our customers KNOW THE FULL STORY.

You are a fool, Ken. Go away, because frankly, most on this site value your opinion about as much as you value theirs. Which aint much.

PA's to the passengers about the campaign .
The passengers could not give a rats arse they are not going look up some web site this is as weak as ALAEA 1 minute stoppage may as well not even bother Qantas managment would be laughing at this time has come to hire a professional negotiator arse kicker but a fear its to late.:ugh:

Ken, maybe you wouldn't be pilloried if you displayed a grasp of the facts.

As stated by ejectx3, we were instructed by Qantas management via a class 2 intam at flight planning to make PAs during the engineering dispute blaming the engineers for departure delays, even when it wasn't actually the engineers' fault!

No-one I know of made it. It was treated with the contempt it deserved.

Jethro - also a grasp of the facts would be helpful to you too. The engineers quite clearly stated that the 1 minute stoppage is to satisfy the FWA legal requirement to keep their PIA valid without having to go to another vote or apply for an extension.

C'mon management stooges. Surely working your way up to the dizzying heights of management requires the ability to do robust factual research before opening your mouth, doesn't it? Oh, wait a minute......just realised what I said! ;)

He's the only poster on that list. Man, it feels good!

Jethro, the one minute stoppages are just to ensure that some action is taken within the legally proscribed timeframe. If that action is not taken, another PIA vote is required. The real action will start shortly.

Meanwhile, QANTAS management continues to pay their strikebreaking engineers who are on expensive fixed term contracts.

They've already wasted two months worth of their six month contracts for nothing.

Don't get me wrong, I am all for industrial action to 'sharpen' managements focus. It just seems to me that after all the effort of the ballot and all the chest beating to actually formulate this as a 'plan' is bizarre. Why not just have a series of 1 day strikes spaced two days apart over the period of 10 days. Back that up with a strong media campaign to get your point across. Making two 'PA's' on a 12 hour longhaul flight will only be listened to be a minority of passengers, I would be surprised if ANY pax then go on to actually look at the website. But hey, I wish you luck.

Very roughly, about half the pilots on the long haul award are flying domestically. So 4 sectors per day = 8 modified pa's per day per Captain.

Cost to pilots association = zero.

Disruption to passengers = only the time needed to make the modified pa's.

Motorolla,

So are you saying that in this 'fight' for the very future of Qantas jobs the top of the list when it comes to industrial action is to make sure it is 'Zero' cost to the pilots association?

Also, not everyone who disagrees with the manner in which IA is being undertaken is a management troll.

pukuOK Done that.
1 x Commodore and 1 x Falcon
Looking forward to your continued support, puku. Thanking you in advance.

first of all let me say congrats to the AIPA.....well done in your ballot and the result....But I am a bit lost about the "PA" to be made on friday,maybe the company will step in and stop it using some sort of PPM rule,and if thats the case you got your hour in the sun.But having travelled a lot,yes the punters do take notice when you guys/girls hit the PTT switch,but only to hear the if the flights going to bumpy and the flt time....anything more is lost......great idear and its already got the msg across........the rim

So you'd prefer the pilots to take harsher action that most certainly would impact flight schedules, etc? Aren't one or two short PAs explaining their situation better for the travelling public than flight cancellations and delays?

Personally, I would rather see a tougher fight, though I guess it may come to that yet...

Judging by the response from management on the evening news (via Olivia), I think they are very concerned!

The actions that I have heard mooted from friends at Qantas I think are very measured and should hurt the company without disenfranchising passengers.:ok:

You can afford the petrol & rego on TWO six cylinder cars????..... In Australia!!!!

**** me :eek:

I'll stick with my 10 yr old 318is Bimmer and 13 yr old Bulletproof Camry sh!tbox
(Which BTW for Bobby Browns benefit has an oil leak in the back of the engine, and it is cheaper for me to top up with oil than it is to lift the motor out and fix the seal!:}) Ha! it only sits in a staff car park in the sun, and goes to the beach anyway.....:ok:

The 318is is a damn pleasure in the hills though....and I am not a car person by any stretch!

All the best boys & girls!....though somehow I suspect a good deal of your pax fly mainline paid for by their companies, and their jobs may well entail looking to offshore jobs....suspect little sympathy from those that seek to benefit the same way as leprechaun & Clifford will do.....expect nothing form those who would prefer to fly mainline but can only afford the orange cancer either....

I fear the whole "Board a QF Flight Expect a QF Pilot campaign will resonate with very few...

Seriously, Puku?

I mean, seriously? This is what it has come down to? What car we drive?

If it's any help to you, I don't know many of my fellow longhaul pilots at all who are driving around in shiny new Mercedes or BMWs. Personally, I have a beaten up old 1988 Nissan and a Honda sedan for the wife to drive to work which I bought when the Falcon died (which in turn replaced the Torana).

Yes indeed, my excess is on display for all to see. And is there seriously something wrong with caring a lot about my own job anyway?

puku= internet/management troll. For those who don't know trolls are those who post just to make trouble.

2 posts in 6 months. Both talking about cars. This is a pilots forum, if cars are your thing maybe try another forum.

Back to the topic. Good luck boys and girls. Hope it all goes well. :D

Watch out Trent,you may be in for a visit from Russell Ingal and crew.
1 Ford + 1 GMH in the driveway!

Oh Ken it's so much fun when you pop into Pprune and make your churlish statements. Maybe you are a troll for Luke Skywalker's side of the debate, throwing up antagonistic lines, so that we can all wax lyrical!

"If you have a fight with the Company, have it by all means but don't involve the customer".
But hang on Ken, AIPA has had an ongoing "fight" (most prefer the word 'negotiation' in these mod times) for more than 9 months, and now the bastard child has been born. Is it a boy, is it a girl, nooooo... it's a new airline in Asia with the cheapest most inexperienced pilots on offer.

I can hear Management's parting words "Sorry boys and girls your jobs are now defunct 'cause wev'e found a bunch of wannabe cashed up pilots/high school drop-outs, with shiny jet syndrome. See ya later Australia. To be sure,to be sure...."

rim,
QF management are unable to interfere with the PA's as they have been approved by FWA. If management were to interfere then they contravene the FWA ruling and penalties apply.

Puku,

2 Commodores for me - the newest one is over ten years old.

Dipstick!!!!

Kenneth be thy name
 

Ken Ken Ken, I see that you have taken a break from making coffee and cleaning custard stains off managements suits so you can post on Prune ?
I don't know what is sicker, your inflamed lust for management sphincter or the way you style your hair like your mentor Wirthless ?

Ken face the facts, you will only ever be a fan of management, you don't have the smarts to accomplish anything deeper than stare longingly at management as they bypass you blissfully on the way to the boardroom. Pretty much the same way you were ignored at school due to your penchant for fondling the tuckshop ladies flabby arms and playing with yourself at the same time. Then again, you were also ignored as a child because as your siblings were becoming educated and obtaining lucrative jobs you were still spending hours every day plane spotting at the end of Brisbane's runways, note pad in one hand eagerly jotting down aircraft rego's and again, your old fella in the other hand.
Which brings us to Prune and the continuation of a life long dream of yours - to be famous within aviation. Sadly, again, like a bastard child you lose. Nobody likes you, nobody considers you to be nothing short of a suckhole or a poorly educated ice-cream van driver. Ken, please find a very tall tree, take a thick piece of rope and do your best Michael Hutchence impersonation..

Always question motives of posters on public forums, such as prominent ones like PPrune who join specifically to disagree with you.

'puku' is probably just applying lessons learned in IR101 in his Tafe Cert IV, derail public comment by posting crap on a forum.

It's amazing the managers who think they are the only ones in the world deserving of wages in excess of $100,000.

After you are only employed under the title of 'Pilot' not

'Senior Advisor to the Executive General Manager of the Department of Quality Risk for the Management of the Operations of all aspects of the Treasury's Paper Supply'

One job manages a machine that if mishandled could kill up to 500 people+ in a single hit, the other carries out risk assessments on the possibility of a paper cut and the effect that could have on supply of a printing and replication medium.

After all, some people know they are important.. Others need big job titles to make them feel important, then post on PPrune to tell the important people how overpaid and undeserving they are.

Handbrake wrote

That's right. Basically QF can allow the ban to go ahead, or espond by lockout - would seem OTT; or not accept the ban - ala the left-hand LAMEs - and not pay pilots that choose to make the union PA announcements.

Pardon my ignorance folks, i'm just a curious kid with a quick question. Even if pilots get their way and QF agrees to secure jobs of pilots, what's to stop QF from recruiting offshore pilots in the future when all the new fleet starts coming in?. My understanding of all this is (and please correct me if i'm wrong), current QF long haul pilots want QF to agree that they will never retrench another pilot (mostly in the event QF employs offshore pilots on lower wages). Basically what i'm getting to is will this new agreement make sure that QF can't employ offshore pilots at all in the future?.... thanks in advance.

Em773ER,
The job security clause that has been put forward does not make Qantas pilots 'unsackable'. All it simply states that any Qantas flying done under a Qantas flight number is done under the Long Haul award OR conditions equal or greater.

Thanks carbonneutral. Could you (or anyone who can) please point out the "key" conditions from the Long Haul award that would state/imply QF pilots under this award must have such as the right to work/live in Australia, Australian licenses etc etc to name a couple... or did I just answer my question?. Thanks again, just trying to understand the whole story. Cheers :ok:

I thought this was worth posting on here as I believe this was a extremely good interview conducted by Nathan Safe, for AIPA. He got many runs on the board in a short space of time. Well worth a listen again.

Kudos Nathan :ok:

Em773ER,
As far as I'm aware those rules are covered by Australian workplace and Australian aviation law. Which is why Qantas is looking to hire outside Australia to bypass these rules. The job security clause, by stating that Qantas flights, regardless of place of employment, must be under the long haul award OR conditions equal or greater, takes away this incentive.

Billboard's on the M4 , Chats over the PA to the punters , I minute stop work meetings , lefthanded LAME's , and of course playing the last post .
Was this how we won the conditions we enjoy today , 38 hr week , LSL , Superanuation , Annual Leave , Workers Comp , Redundancy pay etc ? Real Unionists must be P*****G themselves at your antics , get fair dinkum and run a real campaign . No Pain - No Gain , but I forgot , you belong to Associations , not Unions . What a disgrace you are , you bring shame on the whole movement with your childish antics . Winning IR battles is not a popularity contest , you have to be prepared to shed blood . But carry on with your delusional "campaign" the punters on the M4 struggling to pay their petrol bills to get to work , couldn't give a stuff about you .They are worried about their own jobs and families and if needed they will get fair dinkum .

carbonneutral and Em777ER, you've finally taken us to the point!

There is nothing to stop Qantas from employing foreign/other pilots and basing them overseas

The job security clauses do not provide job security, because the document (LHCA) is only valid for an Australian based company. QantasAsia - or whatever it may be called - if wholly incorporated overseas, may be completely independent from Australian industrial law in the same way that Jetstar Asia, and Jetstar NZ is...

Unfortunately, that's the key battle here.