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Popgun 6th Oct 2010 23:14

Merged: Senate Inquiry
 
All,

The industry meetings and work undertaken by many individuals and organisations, including the unions and Senator Xenophon, have been successful in winning a Senate Inquiry.

Don't waste this rare opportunity to have a say in the legislative process of the Australian Aviation Industry.

Put (constructive) pen to paper and submit your thoughts by 28 October in accordance with the instructions below. Submissions may be made in-confidence by attaching a covering letter outlining the reason/s for requested anonymity.

IMHO, failure to make a submission to this critical inquiry is bordering on professional negligence...and it certainly means an individual has no grounds for further whining on PPRuNe.

Lets all participate and keep the momentum going!

Cheers,

PG



Inquiry into pilot training and airline safety

I am writing to advise you that on 30 September 2010, the Senate referred the following matter to the Rural Affairs and Transport References Committee for inquiry and report by 17 November 2010.

(a) pilot experience requirements and the consequence of any reduction in flight hour requirements on safety;
(b) the United States of America's Federal Aviation Administration Extension Act of 2010, which requires a minimum of 1500 flight hours before a pilot is able to operate on regular public transport services and whether a similar mandatory requirement should be applied in Australia;
(c) current industry practices to recruit pilots, including pay-for-training schemes and the impact such schemes may have on safety;
(d) retention of experienced pilots;
(e) type rating and recurrent training for pilots;
(f) the capacity of the Civil Aviation Safety Authority to appropriately oversee and update safety regulations given the ongoing and rapid development of new technologies and skills shortages in the aviation sector;
(g) the need to provide legislative immunity to pilots and other flight crew who report on safety matters and whether the United States and European approaches would be appropriate in the Australian aviation environment;
(h) reporting of incidents to aviation authorities by pilots, crew and operators and the handling of those reports by the authorities, including the following incidents:
(i) the Jetstar incident at Melbourne airport on 21 June 2007, and
(ii) the Tiger Airways incident, en route from Mackay to Melbourne, on 18 May 2009;
(i) how reporting processes can be strengthened to improve safety and related training, including consideration of the Transport Safety Investigation Amendment (Incident Reports) Bill 2010; and
(j) any other related matters.

The closing date for submissions to the inquiry is 28 October 2010.

The committee invites you or your organisation to make a submission addressing all or some of the issues identified in the bill.

The committee encourages the lodgement of submissions in electronic form. Submissions can be lodged via the Senate online submission system at https://senate.aph.gov.au/submissions, by email to '[email protected]' or by post to:

Committee Secretary
Senate Rural Affairs and Transport References Committee
PO Box 6100
Parliament House
Canberra ACT 2600
Australia

Please note that submissions become committee documents and are only made public after a formal decision by the committee. Persons making submissions must not release them without the committee's prior approval. Submissions are covered by parliamentary privilege but the unauthorised release of them is not.

Please ensure that any submissions or attachments you wish to remain confidential are clearly marked as such. A covering letter, clearly outlining the specific reasons for requesting confidentiality, should also be attached to the submission. Please contact the Secretariat if you require further advice on any issues with regard to confidentiality.

In the event that the committee determines to hold public hearings for the inquiry, the committee's website will be updated to provide advice on dates and locations.

For further information about the inquiry see Parliament of Australia: Senate: Committees: Rural Affairs and Transport Committee: Pilot training and airline safety or phone 02 6277 3511.

Yours sincerely,



Jeanette Radcliffe
Committee Secretary

Mr. Hat 7th Oct 2010 00:29

Not everyone reads pprune.
 
Suggest encouraging your union to advise/encourage all its members to be involved. Put it on the notice board at work call/email/sms/mms your friends.

An important moment in our industry. Here is the chance we all wanted.

Frank Burden 7th Oct 2010 10:10

There are some facts in life that are irrefutable. I wonder if Alice is talking about Australia and the Queen is talking about our region.


`Well, in our country,' said Alice, still panting a little, `you'd generally get to somewhere else -- if you ran very fast for a long time, as we've been doing.'

`A slow sort of country!' said the Queen. `Now, here, you see, it takes all the running you can do, to keep in the same place. If you want to get somewhere else, you must run at least twice as fast as that!'

Alice in Wonderland, Chapter 2

We are becoming a small fish in a much bigger sea and regardless of how big the 'tanty' we shall certainly see major changes. Interesting!:)

Frankly, I don't give a damn.

grip-pipe 8th Oct 2010 06:27

Well here is your chance everyone, the terms of reference is broad enough, and the current Senate is not hostile to having a real go with Government now a minority government you will never get a better chance.

Back it up with letters to your favourite Senator asking them to make sure that this enquiry is not forgotten like the last one was.

Go for it one and all!

Fonz121 9th Oct 2010 10:34

Taken from this article....
Xenophon wins inquiry on safety and training | The Australian


Senator Xenophon said he had received a strong response to publicity flagging his intention to call an inquiry, with more than 60 emails from pilots worried that training standards were under threat.

Surely we can do better than 60! The hiring of cadets is a blatant attempt to save a few $ at the cost of experience, which in this country we have an abundance of. I know that, and you know that. Surely it can't be too hard to convince pollies of this as well.

Mr Baxter 11th Oct 2010 19:12

NZ CAA Pilot Requirements
 
Hi there,

Here is some information for people in Australia wishing to make a point when writing to the Australian Senate with regard to the impending inquiry.

Below is the current NZ CAA pilot minimum requirements with respect to Part 121, 125 and 135 and can be viewed in their entirety on the NZ CAA website under 'rules'. It is interesting to note that the Jetstar cadets will be flying domestic operations within NZ with experience far below these requirements. I understand that they will be operating under the Australian AOC, however I believe that this loophole will be viewed with much suspicion by NZ CAA. Jetstar NZ has already been instructed to utilise NZ CAA alternate minima requirements, rather than their Australian AOC alternate minima requirements that were significantly below those required by the NZ CAA.

Parts 121, 125 and 135 refer to the size of the aircraft and/or the number of passengers able to be on board (info avail on NZ CAA).

121.509 Second-in-command experience

Each holder of an air operator certificate shall ensure that any person designated as second-in-command of an air operation—

(1) is suitably trained and qualified on the aeroplane type; and
(2) is capable, in the event of the pilot-in-command being incapacitated—
(i) of operating the aeroplane safely under the prevailing and anticipated forecast weather conditions; and
(ii) of deputising for the pilot-in-command; and
(iii) of landing the aeroplane at the intended destination or a suitable alternate.

121.511 Pilot experience
The certificate holder shall ensure that each person acting as a pilot, other than as pilot-in-command, of an aeroplane, prior to commencing the training specified in Subpart I or Subpart M—
(1) has acquired at least 500 hours of flight time as a pilot, including at least 100 hours of flight time in air operations; and
(2) has acquired at least 25 hours of night flight experience; and
(3) holds a current instrument rating.

121.513 Pilot operating limitations
(a) Each holder of an air operator certificate shall ensure that, subject to paragraph (b), the pilot-in-command conducts each take-off and each landing.
(b) A second-in-command of an aeroplane performing an air operation may conduct the take-off and landing if—
(1) the pilot-in-command meets the appropriate requirements of 121.583, 121.585, or 121.587; or
(2) the second-in-command has completed the requirements of 121.571 and then accumulated at least 100 hours of flight time, or 75 operating cycles, in air operations, in the aeroplane type being flown; or

(3) the certificate holder has nominated the aerodrome as a general-category aerodrome in its exposition, and the appropriate take-off or landing report provided to the flight crew indicates that—
(i) the prevailing ceiling or visibility is better than the ceiling and visibility minima for that aerodrome when considered as an alternate; and
(ii) the runway to be used is clear of water, snow, slush, rubber accumulation, or similar conditions, that could adversely affect aeroplane performance; and
(iii) the crosswind component for the runway to be used is less than 50% of the demonstrated flight manual limit; and
(iv) windshear has not been reported in the vicinity of the aerodrome.


125.509 Pilot-in-command IFR experience requirements
Each holder of an air operator certificate shall not use a person as pilot-in-command of an aeroplane in an air operation performed under IFR unless that person has at least—
(1) 1200 hours of flight time as a pilot, including 500 hours of cross-country flight time; and
(2) 75 hours of actual or simulated instrument time of which 25 hours can be in a flight simulator approved for this purpose; and
(3) for night operations, 50 hours of night flight time.

135.509 Experience requirements for IFR pilots
A holder of an air operator certificate must not designate a person as pilot-in-command of an aircraft performing an air operation under IFR under the authority of the certificate, unless the person—
(1) has at least 750 hours of flight time as a pilot, including 150 hours of cross-country flight time which must include at least 50 hours cross-country flight time conducted under an IFR flight plan; and
(2) 50 hours of actual or simulated instrument time of which 25 hours may be in a flight simulator approved for this purpose; and
(3) for night operations, 25 hours of night flight time.

4dogs 12th Oct 2010 15:02

The most stringent rules apply
 
Mr Baxter,

Jetstar and everyone else has to abide by the most stringent rules - see s7(c) and s28BD of the Civil Aviation Act 1988 and Chapter 3 of ICAO Annex 6.

There is no room for the accountants running Jetstar or any other AOC to gain any competitive advantage through State differences. I am sure CASA would be auditing each Australian AOC for compliance with all foreign requirements as part of their audits of International AOCs....

except, of course, the one issued to fly more than 12 miles off the coast that begin and end in Australian territory within entering any other State's territory :ugh: :ugh: :ugh:

Stay alive,

Popgun 13th Oct 2010 00:58

I agree Fonz...60 is a disgrace!

The biggest threat to our industry in a generation demands action from EVERYONE!

Have your say guys...and encourage your mates to have their say as well. The time for lethargy, complacency and plain old laziness has passed.

If you've got the time to read this board, you've got the time to make a submission to the Inquiry.

PG

airtags 13th Oct 2010 23:05

.......................................and include examples where the 'manage it in house' approach has totally blindsided the regulatory process.

Risk ........Risk......... Risk....... are key themes and we ALL have to make sure that the pollies and the public see the likes of the JQ Execs advocating this nonsense to be nothing more than the Lady McBeths of aviation.

(gives the phrase "bloody Bruce" a whole new meaning eh!)

Get your submissions and letters in - we can do much better than 60!

AT
:E

Fruet Mich 14th Oct 2010 18:37

Mr Buchanan is responsible for the biggest resurgence in union membership. I would have to say that would probably have to be the only positive thing this knob has actually done for this industry.

He might not think his ideas will affect the industry right now, and it most probably won't, but it will definately in the future.

The only reason he is continually trying to cut costs in salaries and terms and conditions is because all other costs are going up and pilots are an easy target. The real reason that ge keeps going on about remaining competitive in the world is that the low cost model DOESN'T work! Even Ryan Air are saying they need to put their prices up to survive and they get paid by the airports to fly into them!

The senate enquiry will be great to expose this guy once and for all. He has no idea what the industry is like, he has no idea expats are being paid much more in these "Asian" countries that he needs to remain competitive with. This guy would have to be the biggest single twit that aviation in this country has ever seen! I bet you a pilot had shagged his missis and he's pissed at pilots!

Mr. Hat 15th Oct 2010 00:20

Deal sealed?
 
I have a prediction to make.

Most pilots are going to sit idle and not submit anything to the Inquiry. In the meantime, Big Business will hire the very best people to present compelling submissions. This will seal the deal forever and the last opportunity to reverse the downward spiral will be nothing but a distant memory.

Ask your union what they are doing. Have they encouraged members to put pen to paper? I've heard nothing from mine. Not a good sign people.




Jetstar backs Senate safety inquiry into pilot training | The Australian

Steve Creedy From: The Australian October 15, 2010 12:00AM

JETSTAR chief Bruce Buchanan welcomes a Senate inquiry into pilot training and incident reporting as a chance to get facts on the table.

Mr Buchanan said this week that the Qantas Group would be putting a submission to the inquiry that would cover Qantas, Jetstar and QantasLink.

It would also be happy to send representatives to the inquiry if required.

"It's good to get the facts out," Mr Buchanan said. "What we need to separate here is what's the union political agenda and what's the real issues on the table. And there are real issues and it's good to get them out on the table and debate and discuss them."

The Senate committee inquiry was championed by independent senator Nick Xenophon and will look at several issues hotly debated by pilots.

These include the consequences for safety from reductions in pilot flight hour requirements, as well as whether Australia should adopt recent US requirements that a pilot operating regular public transport (RPT) services has at least 1500 flight hours.

It will also look at how regulators are dealing with advancing technology, pilot recruitment, and whether pay-for-training schemes affect safety and incident reporting in Australia.

Mr Buchanan said some of the issues reported during the debate on training had lacked substance and were misleading.

He had no problem with changes if something was not right, but the debate so far had not pointed to "anything of substance that we can see at the moment".

He found that many of the matters being wound into the debate, such as a 2007 Jetstar incident and commentary about pilots reporting directly to the Australian Transport Safety Bureau, were bizarre. "That's what got us into hot water -- we copied word-for-word what the pilots reported to us and gave it to the ATSB," Mr Buchanan said.

"It was only internal checking that actually registered an anomaly. The concept of a pilot having free access to the ATSB was what occurred in this instance."

Mr Buchanan rejected inferences that it was somehow in the interest of airlines to bypass safety. He said the Qantas Group had always been a passionate believer that safety was the first priority.

Unions also have been expressing fears that Jetstar is using its pan-Asian network to slash wages and conditions.

Mr Buchanan called for debate about the broader prospects for Australian aviation and what that meant in terms of a strong local base.

"We're in a business where we've got declining market share in international traffic and declining relevancy," he said. "That should be the bigger concern for the unions and the employees.

"We as a nation, if we're not careful, will cease to be competitive with the rest of the world."

He said competitiveness was not about safety, which was one of the Qantas Group's competitive strengths. "Competitiveness is about how we band together and create a stronger, viable business . . . and also the flow-on benefits to the rest of the tourism industry," he said.



Yep, I'd be laughing to if I were in their shoes.

Cactusjack 15th Oct 2010 09:44

They just played a game of 'who has the biggest wallet' !! Hard to tell who won ??

Bigboeingboy 15th Oct 2010 11:47

It says it all. This is what takes control when good men do nothing.

Popgun 16th Oct 2010 02:06

Don't let complacency win!
 
Exactly right BBB! So come on guys, don't allow complacency to win the fight.

We have less than 2 weeks to get our submissions in to the Senate Inquiry.

Challenge your mates and the guys/gals you fly with...ask them if they have submitted something...and if not, WTF NOT!!!

PG

Shell Management 16th Oct 2010 14:53

Probably that poor reporting culture amongst Australian pilots that the Senate are also investigating;)

crwjerk 16th Oct 2010 17:34

The Indian guy there has the biggest wallet by far!

CASAweary 19th Oct 2010 06:06

Regulatory affairs
 
Forget having an inquiry into airline safety. Go and read the Strategic thread. An inquiry into the australian regulator is more urgent and should come first.

Shell Management 25th Oct 2010 18:20

CASAweary

CASA only ever played at SMS and I'm not convinced they really have embraced the future of safety regulation


The safety risks of pilot P-platers and new style airline managers raised in Senate – Plane Talking


Australia’s largest pilot union has warned that the indifference of airline managements and young pilots to training standards and experience is dragging down safety from its previously high level in this country.
It has sent a Statement of Concern on Diminishing Flight Standards to senators in advance of the impending Senate Inquiry into these matters.
Headed Are we handing the keys of the Ferrari to a bunch of P-platers the paper by the Australian and International Pilots Association says the operational safety of the country’s major airlines is falling.
The president of the association, Captain Barry Jackson, said this morning that there was a ‘total disconnection between new managements at airlines and the high safety cultures of the past that Australians are lead to believe in today.’
The AIPA paper says pilot conditions and training arrangements are being made “the playthings of young MBAs trying to make their mark in the business world.”
The Senate inquiry, instigated by the South Australian independent senator Nick Xenophon, will consider tough new standards for pilot training and experience levels in Australia following the US reaction to the Colgan crash at Buffalo in February 2009, which killed 50 people after two badly trained and fatigued pilots lost control of a Q400 turboprop.
The US Federal Aviation Administration subsequently lifted the minimum experience level for a first officer flying for a major American carrier to 1500 hours, compared to as little as 250 hours in Australia.
In the paper, AIPA says :
“We must make a stand to protect the safety of the public and ourselves…There is growing evidence that we have stagnated at safety levels achieved in 2003 and may even be going slowly backwards.
“Very low air fares have increased the demographic pool of potential air travellers and created a significant demand for increased capacity that appears set to continue.
“However the expectation of the public is generally that the cheap fares come without any reduction in safety.”
AIPA says the current emphasis on streamlined and lower flight time progression to a pilot job with a major airline is fraught with compromises, exacerbated by shifting the costs to the would be pilots through courses run by third party training solutions providers who are compromised by the need to churn out ‘qualified’ pilots to the carriers who award them contracts.
The statement makes no secret of AIPA’s industrial agenda in terms of protecting Australian pilot jobs in Australia but also expresses what many have recently spoken about in recent times as serious failures in the cultural attitudes of new pilot recruits and the low cost carrier management styles of all the major Australian carriers, which despises and exploits those trying to fast track their careers in them.

Popgun 27th Oct 2010 08:21

Last Chance!
 
Get your submissions in...deadline is tomorrow.

PG

Kharon 27th Oct 2010 21:11

Yes but, Do we really need CASA.
 
Why not give the Federal Police an aviation related branch. At least investigations into an alleged 'breach' of regulation would be properly investigated, by trained professionals who are governed by code of conduct and ethical standards.

Why not expand the ATSB to oversight 'safety' related matters. At least we would get a logical, reasoned opinion as to why a thing is deemed 'unsafe'.

That only leaves the clerical details which could, with modern technology be done on a cost effective basis.

The only safety the present crew seem interested in is 'legally safe' prosecutions. They don't seem to able to do that very well either, looking down the long, sad and probably expensive list of judgements against them.

The negative impact on aviation safety that this body has must be of serious concern to this industry. The total cost, including 'legal' fees measured against the minuscule positive safety based outcomes and improvements offered is truly staggering.

Now we have to fund the cost of yet another inquiry and probably a Royal Commission. They need to hang their collective heads in shame.

gordonfvckingramsay 28th Oct 2010 01:26

It will be interesting to see if enough people forwarded submissions to the inquiry to make a difference. Well done to those who did and good luck to all of us! This needn't be the end of it though as I am sure the Senator would still be appreciative of your thoughts, even after todays deadline for submissions has passed. this is the most positive step I have seen in my time in the industry and we have some momentum going now. Let's not drop the ball....GFR

Popgun 29th Oct 2010 00:32

Hear Hear GFR!

PG

Creampuff 29th Oct 2010 04:04

Parliament of Australia: Senate: Committees: Rural Affairs and Transport Committee: Pilot training and airline safety including consideration of the Transport Safety Investigation Amendment (Incident Reports) Bill 2010: Submissions Received Published Submissions

Fonz121 29th Oct 2010 04:55

Only ten?

The anonymous submission from a Jet* captain was good reading.

glekichi 29th Oct 2010 15:50

But the attachment was kind of cheesy :ouch:

morno 30th Oct 2010 03:49

Pretty sure there'd be more than only 10 submissions. The submission I put in isn't showing. So you can only guess the amount of others which aren't showing as well.

Quite damning reports there on Jetstar though....

morno

Rose_Thorns 30th Oct 2010 20:02

Senate inquiry – what chance change?.
 
Well, done my bit. Thought it out, wrote it down, edited, formatted, checked for spelling, syntax and all that stuff. Even tried to provide a reasoned balanced approach. (Got a headache and everything).

Then I did some serious research. Man, has there been a lot of heavy duty inquiries, reports, commissions, recommendations etc. and some very well informed, intelligent expert opinion on the current subject and related subjects. Not a whole lot of change has occurred, despite the time, effort, trouble and money invested.

Is the game worth the candle. I would like to think so, but I am concerned that by the time the back room boys, spin doctors, vested political interests the lunatic fringe and all the rest of interested parties have finished, we could end up with 'plenty a nuthin'. Again.

Oh well, that's enough serious stuff for a year; back to the party Joyce.
(No not the Greens you fool).


Sunfish 30th Oct 2010 20:51

Not a hope in hell of any real change, just some cosmetic makeovers.

IMO, it will take a major loss of life with maintenance and procedural implications before anyone looks too hard at CASA.

tail wheel 30th Oct 2010 21:07

As Joh Bjelke-Petersen once said: "Never hold an inquiry unless you first know the outcome."

Only time it failed him was the Fitzgerald Inquiry.

Monorail 30th Oct 2010 23:45

What we also need is one or two of the heavier-weight journalists to keep shining their light into the dark corners of the process and keep it alive in the press from time to time.

Rose_Thorns 31st Oct 2010 00:40

So then, how?.
 
How can we get some heavy weight "Polly's to support this, without killing an maiming some more folks.

How much longer can this industry support the current situation.

Is this xylophone fella fair dinkum, or is it just feel good, in the spotlight fluff ?:.

I expect time will tell.

Lets see, who would we pick to run the show.

Bill Heffernan, Greg Vaughan, Leroy Keith, Hannibal Lector, Dick Smith and ?

(perhaps the Muppet's. I reckon they'd do a job lot and sack them all).

gordonfvckingramsay 31st Oct 2010 00:57

Despite what happens now, they have been warned, and they ignore us at their peril. When the inevitable accident happens and there is loss of life worthy of an investigation, there are (unfortunately only) 10 submissions on the public record saying I TOLD YOU THIS WOULD HAPPEN!!! Legaly quite tricky for an airline when it comes time to explain why/how could this have happened, and hopefully that is food for thought. We've done the right thing here even if it feels futile now.GFR

gobbledock 31st Oct 2010 06:00

Achtung
 

Lets see, who would we pick to run the show.

Bill Heffernan, Greg Vaughan, Leroy Keith, Hannibal Lector, Dick Smith and ?

Or Terry Farquahson, Mick Quinn, Geoff Dixon, Anthony Albanese for the pick of a ****e bunch?
Or what about The Stig, Russell Crowe, Mark Latham, Ban Ki-moon or even better - - - Robert Mugabe, Muammar al-Qaddafi or Mahmoud Ahmadinejad !!

kimwestt 31st Oct 2010 07:15

Absolutely Achtung
 
What about the Fuehrer from YSBK??
Ve haff vays und meens to make zis zistem verk. Vot do you meen - you don't unnerstand? Und vile ve are about it, ve vill make ze BAL outlawed.:D
Quote:
Lets see, who would we pick to run the show.

Bill Heffernan, Greg Vaughan, Leroy Keith, Hannibal Lector, Dick Smith and ?


Or Terry Farquahson, Mick Quinn, Geoff Dixon, Anthony Albanese for the pick of a ****e bunch?
Or what about The Stig, Russell Crowe, Mark Latham, Ban Ki-moon or even better - - - Robert Mugabe, Muammar al-Qaddafi or Mahmoud Ahmadinejad !!

4dogs 31st Oct 2010 07:25

More to follows, methinks
 
There are only 10 submissions published so far, I know of at least 2 that are not on the list...:ok:

Stay Alive,

Frank Burden 1st Nov 2010 09:40

My choice to return would be MQ as he has been there before and may remember the mobile number of evilC to give him a call to do all the work.

Otherwise, Kamahl - "Why are people so unkind!";)

But then again ....

Frankly, I don't give a damn!

gordonfvckingramsay 3rd Nov 2010 03:18

I have just received a reply to an e-mail I sent to the committee regarding the publication of submissions. They informed me that they have received a "bulk" of submissions and are awaiting a date for a private meeting of the committee. This date should be around mid November and the other submissions should be published in the third week of Nov. GFR

Rose_Thorns 3rd Nov 2010 04:48

Thanks GFR
 
For the update, much appreciated. Was just beginning wonder.

Perhaps the motto for the guys who cared enough about this game should be:-

'Nos es illegitimate permissum nos frendo lemma down
'.

Now we, the illegitimate grind them down. (near enough).
http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/sr...ies/thumbs.gif

Frank Arouet 4th Nov 2010 23:03


Lets see, who would we pick to run the show.
The Mafia. (you know exactly where you stand with them).:ouch:

chockchucker 19th Nov 2010 21:11

Boston Bruce and the Leprechaun
 
The sort of thing that 'Boston Bruce' and Alan Joyce desparately don't want federal regulators or the public to know...........




Fasten your seatbelts

November 20, 2010 - 3:00AM
Advertisement

WHEN a Rolls-Royce engine on a Qantas A380 was ripped apart by a turbine disc shattering inside it, the terrified passengers on-board were comforted by a soothing voice of experience emanating from the flight deck.

The flight crew of QF32 was a little different to usual. The captain was undergoing his annual ''route check'' - a check carried out by supervisory pilots on the standard of a pilot's flying and management skills. Sitting beside him was a first officer with more than 10,000 hours of flying time and an A380 command endorsement stamped on his licence. This command endorsement allows him to be in charge of the flight when the captain is resting during long hauls. Qantas's first officers routinely fly every second take-off and landing and must complete demanding simulator exercises to the same standard as the captains they fly with.

Sitting behind both were two experienced check captains - one conducting the route check, and the other ''checking the checker''; in effect clearing him to conduct further route checks on other pilots.

The fifth member of this crew was a second officer. Every pilot in Qantas starts as a second officer and works their way up through the ranks. Second officers do not perform take-offs or landings, regardless of their previous piloting roles, but act as relief pilots in cruise and as a vital pair of eyes and ears during critical phases of flight such as take-off or landing. They are also there to learn the tricks of the trade in preparation for future promotion.

There was more than 60,000 hours of combined flying experience present on the flight deck of the Qantas A380 during the emergency on November 4.

While full details are yet to emerge, anecdotal evidence suggests that even this highly experienced crew had its collective hands full as the shrapnel sent flying by the disintegrating disc severed wiring, electrical systems and fuel tanks in the aircraft's wing.

For two hours over Indonesia's Batam Island they methodically worked their way through multiple warning messages. They dumped fuel and figured out what aircraft systems would still be working for them on landing at Singapore's Changi Airport. That the subsequent landing was successful is a testament to the training and experience of the crew, and the design of the modern marvels they fly.

In July 2008, when a QF30 flight from Hong Kong to Melbourne experienced a rapid decompression after an oxygen bottle exploded in a cargo hold, the captain and first officer, with military and general aviation backgrounds and more than 25,000 hours between them, had initial memory checklists complete, oxygen masks on and the 747 descending towards the safety of lower altitudes within 15 seconds of the initial explosion.

In October 2008, the QF72 A330 incident near Learmonth in Western Australia had a US navy former ''Top Gun'' pilot at the controls and a highly experienced support crew for his back-up pilots. The aircraft landed safely after an unprecedented control malfunction caused by a design flaw in the aircraft's guidance computers.

Australian pilots now fear, however, that the system that resulted in these outcomes to critical situations is under threat from airlines that seem to pay lip service to safety when it suits them, yet exploit any method at their disposal to cut pilot costs.

Ten years ago, if you wanted to end up in the captain's seat of a Qantas airliner the path was difficult but well delineated. Training costs were steep and either paid out of the trainee's own pocket or by a lengthy return-of-service as the price of military training.

The average cost of commercial training was $100,000, and military pilots were required to spend at least 10 years of their lives in the services. These pilots would spend those years carefully building the required time in command of multi-engine civilian and military aircraft before submitting their applications for analysis by a picky Qantas recruiting department.

If lucky, they would set about learning the Qantas way of doing things, a distillation of more than 80 years of experience, and 50-plus years of flying heavy jets around the world. Promotion would come with time, but was helped by the rapid expansion of the airline starting in 1985.

The idealised picture of Qantas, held by many who flew with them in the 1970s and '80s, riding the first 747s to Europe and beyond, no longer exists. Qantas in 1984 flew fewer than 30 aircraft, all 747s and only on long-haul international routes. Since then, the privatisation in the early '90s and the need for continual growth has seen the total Qantas Group fleet - including Jetstar, Qantaslink and JetConnect - grow to more than 250 aircraft.

Such a massive growth has required large numbers of pilots. This demand for experienced pilots was echoed in the creation of Virgin Blue. Needing experienced commanders from day one, Virgin employed many former TAA and Ansett pilots who had lost their jobs in the pilots' dispute of 1989.

In 2001, two events transpired that set the stage for what is happening now in the Australian airline industry. The first was then Qantas CEO Geoff Dixon's purchase of Gerry McGowan's struggling Impulse Airlines, and the second was the collapse of Ansett, three days after the tumult of September 11.

Dixon commented that the purchase of Impulse was ''for a rainy day''. And it now seems that a strategy was beginning to form at that time which threatens to change the way all Australian pilots progress through the system. The ramifications can only be guessed at.

Impulse Airlines morphed into Jetstar Airlines in 2004. One of the reasons that Jetstar was formed was as a counter to the low-cost carrier phenomenon introduced into Australia by Virgin Blue.

Qantas pilots at the time naturally assumed that the formation of another group airline would mean more opportunities for career progression, in the same way as they had flown for Australian Airlines for some time. Qantas management thought differently and effectively sidelined any progression of pilots into the airline, by an onerous set of preconditions and by the employment of many pilots who were caught up in the great Ansett diaspora of 2001.

Alan Joyce, then CEO of Jetstar, made a reference to not wanting Qantas pilots ''polluting the culture'' of the nascent airline. Margaret Jackson, then chairwoman of the Qantas board, also made reference to the desirability of ''internal competition'' for work inside the Qantas Group.

Many Qantas pilots looked at the enviable safety record of the airline and audibly wondered just how they were supposed to be ''polluting'' the culture of the orange start-up. Their wonder increased when the first reaction of Jetstar management to any adverse publicity, such as an aircraft incident, would be to invoke the Qantas name.

Eighteen months ago a Jetstar A330 flying from Tokyo to Australia had a fire in the flight deck. Many pilots were less than delighted to hear Jetstar spokesman Simon Westaway laud the fact that an ''experienced Qantas captain'', one of the few to brave the sideways jump into Jetstar, was the major contributing factor to the successful conclusion of the incident.

The A330's introduction into Jetstar was another example. When Jetstar launched its international arm in 2006, it was done using A330s drawn straight from the Qantas fleet. These four aircraft had been operating very profitably on routes in and out of Perth, contributing greatly to the Qantas bottom line.

The Qantas A330s arrived at Jetstar, but the Qantas pilots did not. Jetstar filled the pilot vacancies with many pilots from overseas - a lot of returning Australians but a good number of South Africans as well. The Qantas A330 pilots were assigned leave and even urged to take leave without pay so they would cease to be a financial burden on Qantas. Many barely flew for a year until replacement aircraft arrived, a huge cost to Qantas. In the meantime the Perth route was serviced with geriatric 747s.

These incidents served only as a precursor. Tasman flying was farmed out to another subsidiary called JetConnect. JetConnect pilots fly Qantas-painted 737 aircraft and dress in Qantas uniforms, but none of them has ever been employed by Qantas. They are paid in New Zealand in NZ dollars at a substantial discount to Australian pilots.

If Jetstar pilots thought they were immune, they were in for a rude shock. Earlier this year it was announced that two of their A330s would move overseas to Singapore to be flown by Singapore-based crews. Jetstar pilots were ''invited'' to take up the new positions, at a substantial pay cut and with none of the allowances usually afforded expatriates in Singapore. The possible outcome of not accepting this ''invitation'' is redundancy.

All this was seen as a harbinger for the arrival of the Boeing 787, and the savings that could be made by basing these pilots halfway to Europe instead of in Australia, and subject to Singapore's less rigorous industrial relations regime and reduced pay.

But the major concern is the trend towards circumventing the traditional methods of training and acquiring experience before joining an airline, via the airline pilot cadetship. Once again Jetstar leads the way in this as it recruits trainee pilots directly into the right-hand seat as a first officer, and not via the second officer method used by Qantas.

Jetstar cadetships now involve being employed and trained in New Zealand, and having the ''opportunity'' to take leave without pay to be employed by any Jetstar subsidiary, on New Zealand rates of pay. These are individual contracts, circumventing the Australian Fair Work system.

Pilots pay for their training via a salary sacrifice deal that means they must fly for Jetstar for several years until after the training is repaid. The airlines have a guarantee pilot positions will be filled for years.

These individual contracts state that personal illness is a reason for dismissal. With only five sick days per year accumulating to a maximum of 20 days, the safety implications that pilots will have no choice but to fly while unwell are obvious.

What is even more disturbing is the possibility that these 200-flight-hour cadets will be thrust into a situation such as the one that the crew of the QF32 was faced with.

How would they cope?

Most experienced pilots harken back to that stage of their own career and concede that the captain would be pretty much on his/her own.

Modern flight decks in an emergency work on the basis of a strict allocation of duties, with pilots cross-checking and supporting each other. One captain commented that a first officer is ''there for two reasons: one is to prepare for his own command, but by far the most important is to make sure I do everything correctly when the **** hits the fan''.

Most pilots agree and are concerned that airline managements seem to think that experience, and the ability to have spare brain capacity available in an emergency, can be instilled in a meagre 200 flying hours.

Other recent incidents point to the desirability of having seasoned professionals on the flight deck. When Captain Chesley Sullenberger was faced with the unexpected nightmare of having to ditch his A320 in New York's Hudson River last year, beside him was an extremely experienced first officer, Jeffrey Skiles, who continued his attempts to relight the stricken engines while simultaneously supporting Sullenberger in his attempts to find a place to set the aircraft down.

The ability to compartmentalise emotions and continue functioning as a crew in an emergency is something that most pilots agree cannot be instilled overnight.

ON FEBRUARY 12, 2009, in Buffalo in the US, 50 people died when a Dash 8 commuter aircraft crashed after the tired and poorly trained crew mishandled a wing stall caused by ice build-up. Safety issues examined during the accident investigation led the Federal Aviation Administration to issue a ''call to action'' for improvements in the practices of airlines. One of the main recommendations enacted in the US was the implementation of a minimum requirement for pilots to have 1500 hours' flying experience before they are permitted to occupy a control seat on an airliner.

South Australian independent senator Nick Xenophon has commissioned a Senate inquiry into the alleged decline in standards in Australian aviation. The terms of reference are far-reaching and similar to the FAA inquest. Pilots eagerly await the outcome of this inquiry.

Qantas pilots have a hard time reconciling Alan Joyce lauding his Qantas pilots as some of the ''best trained and most experienced in the world'' after a safety scare like the QF32, and his dismissal of them as potential polluters of the Jetstar culture in 2004.

They also point to continued attempts to prevent experienced Qantas pilots participating in the expansion of the group, on pure cost grounds.

This has resulted in career stagnation, and low morale among junior pilots who claim that after jumping through all the hoops to get the dream career with Qantas, that career is being sold off beneath them to the lowest bidder. Recruitment is also affected. The RAAF is experiencing record retention rates because military pilots see Qantas now as a dead end, and the pay and conditions of the low cost carriers as less than they enjoy now.

Junior Qantas pilots see their skills being under-utilised for cost saving reasons.

Captain Barry Jackson, president of the Australian and International Pilots Associations, summed it up as follows: ''The fear is that the trends we now see will place an over-loaded captain and an inexperienced first officer in trouble one dark and stormy night, and same as the Buffalo crew, not see the options available to avert a tragedy. It doesn't have to happen. Airlines need to decide whether experienced pilots are a cost or an asset. The Australian public had a safe aviation system in place; it is now being dismantled purely for reasons of cost. They deserve better.''

The author is a current Australian airline pilot. The Age has withheld the name.

........Certainly hope the current Senate enquiry can shine a bright light on these practices and the similar goings on within the maintenance side of things. The travelling public deserve the truth. Not the lip service they get from Bruce and the Leprechaun.:ok:


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