rex pilots to commence industrial action
 

can anyone shed some light on the proposed industrial action?
you guys have been without an eba for some time now I believe.

No industrial action - yet.

Feedback meetings pending with the troops to ascertain acceptability of the offer. If unacceptable, negotiators may go back to the company, or commence protected industrial action.

AFAP to notify a bargaining period. The first step towards P.I.A.

Good luck.

They were offered 3%. Anyone who votes yes to that rubbish is a fool! :ugh:

3% seems to be the norm in the aviation industry.Inflation is now 5% and rising and thats what you should be aiming for or better.

Now, most here would know my thoughts on the standard of REX wages and Regional Airline incomes in general. As well as an offer of 3% though, the company have put out for consideration a 5% (I'm assuming P/A) offer, but with no profit share. The profits of REX were down this year, and I think it's safe to say it will become a continueing trend. Not so much because of any economic downturn, but as the lower end of the seniority list now contains pilots (and Cadets if they ever surface) that cannot be upgraded to command, every Captain that resigns will put further pressure on the company to reduce the schedule. Smaller schedule, smaller profits, smaller profit share.

What's the CPI at the moment? A little over 5% I think!

What a joke!

Thank's satos, beat me to it.

It should be remembered that a lower than average CPI pay deal(s) over the past decade or so has led to this point. The gradual nibbling away over the years has resulted in REX pilots being some 20% behind their Qantaslink counterparts, and now well below what most GA operators are paying their turbine drivers on even smaller equipment.

Whatever form the industrial action takes, I think REX management must bear responsibility for the outcome. But of course, they'll do what they always do!

What?.... Industrial action?.... Do the Feds know about this?

I'm sure this can all be sorted out with a stern letter from the Feds to the Singaporeans.......:}

bbbbbbbbbbbzzzzzzzzzbbbbzbzbzbbzbzzzz

Good luck guys,

it's about time a stand was made against that little sing pr!ck.

I agree. Hit management hard and fast with decisive PIA.

Time to get paid what we are worth...accept nothing less.

:D:D:D

I heard that the M**air EBA was voted in with a substantial pay increase in the order of 20%.

Hell, if REX offered 20% the EBA would be a shoe-in! That won't stop pilots leaving though, and it certainly won't address the root cause of the "shortage".

Problem is, it would take 40% just to begin to turn the tide. It's now gone way beyond what the company should/could have done. REX have signalled loud and clear that the retention of experienced crews is not an option for them. Pretty soon we will see the wholesale poaching of upgradeable pilots by other operators, and not necessarily the majors. Not pretend poaching like JD refered to, but real advances by competitors!

Think it won't happen? 50-100-150 cadets and 200 hour wannabe's will only add to REX's crewing issues (surplus to requirements). Captains and upgradeable F/O's are now in serious short supply. How many years does it take for a pilot to aquire the mins for command at REX? But first you have to convince a generation of young Australians to take up the profession in the first place! In the meantime, if your airline is to have any chance at growth or even survival, you only have one option, scramble for what's left!

Armchairs and popcorn.

Gotta agree Mate! If they are serious about crewing their planes...and about safety, it's time to pony up the dough to keep you around!

I feel for you guys seeking decent wages that ought to be paid without having to fight for it. Hypothetically I wonder what the response would be from REX management if ALL REX pilots simply stopped work 'till they where offered something decent?
Didn't we have a similar situation back in the late 80's? That got ugly but is there that strength (in numbers) that we saw still somewhere out there? To put it simply what do you guys/gals really need to do to get a fair pay? I wish you lot well with whatever action you take:ok:



CW

It wouldnt even take serious p.i.a all you guys need to do is stop working RDO's and extending duties and after about a week the board would have to make a decent offer otherwise the cancellation of flight would be enourmous all because guys/girls are actually using their days off for days off.:ok:

Go for it!
 

I've heard that F/O's are being offered Commands before their probation is finished???!!!

I've also heard of Captains becoming Training Captains with less than 12 months service???!!!

Hell, they wouldn't have seen all the seasons yet! Flying to Orange in Summer is alot different than Winter.

This opinion that experience is over-rated is extraordinary!

1) Get rid of the Space Shuttle FCOM.
2) Campaign for a bidding system; anything is better than the current "surprize package" that is a roster.
3) Campaign for overtime payments.
4) And try for some better meals at MEAL TIMES.

I can't believe that in our country we have pilots flying RPT who are tired, hungry and poor!:{

This I haven't heard of.

This however I know of, on more than one occasion.

Keep an eye on Qantaslink over the next few months. They have a serious Captain shortage as well. They have a dozen new Q400's coming and although enough right seaters are in the pipeline, the expansion plans are in jeapody because they litteraly have no F/O's left that are suitable for command.

They'll have to get them from somewhere?

I guess they'll try to find some South Africans again?

Did the South Africans Jetstar recruited ever arrive?

they would be lucky to be checked to line as f/o's before they finish probation as the training backlog is huge for the sim.:}

The AustralianAugust 29, 2008
Steve Creedy, Aviation writer

Rex executive chairman Lim Kim Hai said

Well it seems lim kim LOW is a LIAR, as the afap has met directly with him & the rest of upper management, and all the company has to offer is 3% with profit share or 5% without profit share. Why is it so hard for him to offer the money that he has said he would be willing to pay in the above quote. Maybe you are just trying to talk yourselves up to the media! so as to look like the good guy's & make the crews look like a bunch of money hungry ars*h***s who really just want an honest days pay for an honest days work. Also maybe L K LOW should fly around economy class instead of first class & save some money! :ooh:it seems you might be two faced:rolleyes:


Crews have not been offered anything close to this money so how would he know! Check & trainers have worked out a deal which I believe is quite good, so put the 20% offer to the line pilots & stop wasting everyones time with the insulting offers & everyone can get on with the job in a better environment, so that they dont have to work a second job to make ends meat.


Steve Creedy & media why do you people always do half arsed reports on this industry, do a little research, get the facts, interview both sides to the issue instead of making it up as you go. If pilots as professionals flew in the same manner as the media/journalist report stories, we would be smoking aircraft into the ground daily.

PIA IS the only way Rex management will understand, hitting THEIR pocket harder than ours.

But please will everyone band together. There is always plenty of talk around... “I’m going to do this, I’m not going to do that...” but when it comes down to it, we are all professional pilots and strive to complete our duties with the highest standard.

If we all stop working our Annual leave, RDO’s and never ever extend without payment, (LM82 comments) the cancellation rate will be astronomical. Management surely would have to ‘take stock’ and readdress their very strong stand point on the EBA.

I’m all for industrial action, but I feel this alternative action must be attempted prior, but with EVERYONE onboard.

I know this is my first post, and I’m certain that alone will attract some criticism, but don't think that makes me green to the industry, I’ve gained quite a few years under my belt with Rex and KD.


So come on everyone, it’s your call, or not – don’t answer that next phone call

I do not think industrial action is the key here.

As others have said, for management to truly understand how bad the situation is, everyone needs to come together and not accept working off RDO and A/L. The cancellation rate would be astronomical, and this shock tactic would work.

Take action, let em park planes against the fence, VB will snaffle the routes with shiny red jets and will be looking for new drivers and presto you will get a pay rise AND drive a jet! Easy!:ok:

Stickywastegate,

Protected industrial action can include such things as not working on RDO's and/or Annual Leave! That is probably the type of action that would be being considered and would be most effective.:ok:

PIA, even if approved by the Commission, might not go ahead. Once the required notice of PIA is given, interested parties can lobby the Minister, who under the former Govt, had the power to over-rule the right to take PIA. I don't know if the legislation has changed in this regard with the change in federal govt, or if they plan to change it.

A mate of mine is close to a few people in ops and crewing at Rex. They told him that from their perspective, crew essentially working to rule - not working on days off and not extending etc - would lead to short-term pain for them but that overall they supported the idea. Reason being, only a skyrocketing cancellation rate would make the management committee sit up and take notice... and that would be the only chance of getting a strong EBA under which crew would actually want to help out. Short term pain for ops and crewing (and of course Rex pax), long term better off for all. Makes sense to me.

It MUST be consistant however. Pilots need to tell the poor sod from crewing who calls them for a casual day that "I am not interested because I believe we need a better EBA" or similar, so that when the other poor sod in Ops calls the Management Committee for 'approval' to cancel a flight due no crew and is asked by said MC why crew are not extending or coming on casual days, they can look 'em in the eye and say "because the crew want a better EBA".

I've said it before myself. It MUST be consistant. One in, all in. And the MC, the media, the union, other Rex staff and of course Rex passengers need to be aware that this is the real reason that their flight has no pilots.

I'll start saying 'No' from now on then, only a small start but I'm sure that the momentum will grow in time.. By the time we get the full go ahead, we'll be well practiced up in saying this particular key word :)

Well said Goatwhaker. If the management committee won't negotiate in a fair and meaningful way to resolve the EBA then pressure is the only way forward unless capitulation is being considered. The pilots will need to show the committee that they are serious about negotiating a reasonable outcome.

Surely working overtime is optional? They can't touch if you refuse I would have thought. Seem to work for the QF engineers

Dont answer your phone on days off or while on leave, that way there is no need to tell them anything!

mr flappy is right.

Politely decline the offer. The folks in crewing are just trying to do their jobs under increasingly difficult circumstances, and the Chairman and senior management don't give a rats'!

Don't tell them why, that's your business. They (crewing) will understand. Just be nice guys, believe me you're all on the same team!

Why would you need to give an excuse not to work on a day off or not too work free overtime anyway?
You guys are on another planet.

this all sounds good in theory, but speaking from experience, the spinelss pricks that reside in our ranks will fark it for the rest..

it has all been said before.......

management counts on this, and will again laugh all the way to the bank when the jelly back d!ckheads roll over and allow them to continue down this path......

on a final note, don't rely on the afap to get a better deal, just look what they did to the JQ pilots..

solidarity is a word that most pilots would not know the meaning of.!!!:ugh:

What do you get if you come in on your day off. Day in lieu or overtime?

'Muff' powerful words there but sadly true:bored: All Co's as you mentioned count on the fact that solidarity is dead. The notion of working to rule so to speak is terrific but as others have said to be effective it has to be done by ALL.
I'm not sure of what's written in the current EBA at REX but most Co's tend to write in that your expected to work a fair & reasonable O/T when asked, nature of the job, The word 'reasonable' is questionable & is open to abuse I guess.
Yr worth more guys/gals that's obvious if what's been said in here over the years is anything to go by but getting that point across to the management will take a huge effort by ALL.

Good luck


CW

Don't go blamimg the AFAP, they can only work on advice from the pilot group! I was recently involved with protected industrial action via AFAP and the result was favourable, but it is much easier to gain the support of twenty pilot's than it is three hundred!:ok:

enough nonsense
 

When you look at the night sky, you'll remember his name............THE NIGHT RIDER.

I am pretty sure that IF REX wrote "fair and reasonable amount of overtime" in it's EBA, then it would ALREADY be achieved by some of the duties it assigns.
OVERTIME.... by australian definition is anything over 8 hours per day OR 40 hours per week.
when pilots get rostered just ONE 11 hour day,per month, then I think that they are Deemed to have done the overtime that any court would expect to be a reasonable compliance with that. The fact that they are ALLOWED to roster duties in excess of 8 hours would MORE than make up for that one phrase!!!!
That phrase " fair and reasonable amount of overtime" in my opinion, has been ommitted from ALL Airline EBA's at managements request since Adam was a boy, due to CAO48 rules and requirements.
CAO48, whilst being the pilots friend, has also allowed for "flexiible rostering",which allows for the OCCASIONAL 11 hour day. It also ensures that when one IS rostered for an 11 hour ToD, that a pilot cannot be rostered for this ToD EVERY day!!!!!
THE GA EBA, and almost every other EBA allows that a pilot MAY work 11 hour days OCCASIONALLY, and thet they may also be rostered for 90 hours duty time per fortnight.... well in excess of the 80 required by law
I think that ANY airline challenging the " fair and equitable amount of overtime phrase will probably find that they will be up for millions of $$$$ in backpay for anyone who ever worked more than 80 (or 76) houirs per fortnight.
Anyone who worked LESS, will be deemed to have met the requirements due to the company publishing a roster.
I do NOT think that any airline would want this phrase brought against them.

Any news on the EBA front?

What's the feeling on LKH's latest comments in the FF's? At lot of us have already been making 'extraordinary sacrifices' for quite some time. Some specifics would have been nice...

can anyone clarify for me that although the pilots got the FINAL payrise in the current EBA, it IS still current thru to 30jun 09? and that negotiations have/should have started so that any new agreement will be signed, sealed and delivered ready to run on 1 july 09 ?

ie... any talking going on will not in fact have any bearing on conditions/wages till 01/07/09.

or am I wrong?