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Professor...Arrogant Ignorance
When younger did you have a diet rich in Aluminium?
The cost cutting at qantas has seen service and safety levels plummet. If Joyce makes any further cuts he will be responsible for a hull loss. Dixon has only just escaped that depressing eventuality by the skin of his sagging jowel. Qantas is an unhappy place now.Under Joyce it will become morbidly depressed |
Who knows? He might be able to balance the cost cutting with paying people what they are worth and re-engage the workforce. :ok:
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Anyone want to make a guess on what GD's Golden Handshake will be worth.
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The jury is out on Joyce for me as QF CEO, I'm going to have to wait & see what transpires.
He is no longer CEO of Jetstar, so his major obligations are now with mainline. So welcome to mainline Joyce, come & play with the big boys & learn to piss in the long grass with a premium operation & established unions to deal with. Dixon was worn down by the ALEA's engineers, so what better job could Joyce do? Unlike Jet*, Qantas is not a protected species hand fed by a parent airline. As to mainline being transformed into a LCC, I doubt it. I think, as has been in the past there will be a continous focus on cost. MC:8 |
Originally Posted by P51D
.........if you think the industry will go back to where it was, with fuel costs and carbon trading etc squarely on the agenda, get out and do something else.......
However Qantas will likely be a sh*t place to work under Joyce. He has absolutely zero respect for employees unless they roll over on everything he says and take it right up the clacker in every possible position. He is not interested in safety in the slightest (that info comes direct from an extremely experience flight-safety pilot who once applied for a high-level safety management position there, then withdrew after the conditions and culture permeating down from Joyce became apparent during discussions about the job). As for me, I don't need the money, so if Joyce destroys Qantas Mainline by shifting it to a LCC model and thinking Australian mums & dads will still take holidays on budget carriers during a slowing economy and difficult economic circumstances, it'll be sad, but won't have a significant effect on me. I have other things I can do. |
Seems a sensible choice to me. Right age; right background; already across the strategic issues; but like anyone else he'll need his share of luck.
Some of the comments here about JQ and Mainline QF miss the boat. The official, well-publicised, plan has always been to move marginal routes to JQ first, and then expand JQ to pull back market share by exploiting emerging Low Cost markets. Mainline growth was always forecast to be lower (but growth nevertheless ) . Nett result - group growth and increasing market share. Seems a sensible plan to me. It's only 787 delivery delays that have slowed it down. |
Wantabe pilot has own airline
Here's an extract of an interview he did with CNBC about half a year ago.
It'll be interesting to see how even applied to become a pilot many years ago:}, changes now he's to be in charge and responsible for the whole show or will the perceived balance of power Geoff vs Marg. reverse with Leigh vs Alan. How absolutely controlling will he be or will the board under Clifford be more hands on than perhaps missing in action in the past? Perhaps it'll be interesting to re-read this interview in six months time. CNBC PODCAST Welcome to Managing Asia I’m Christine Tung The low-cost airline industry is picking up here in Asia but so is competition. One late starter, Jetstar Airways, has managed to stay profitable from the start. Today we meet the man navigating the Australian budget carrier. Alan Joyce is a high flyer in every sense of the word, his familiar with airports flying at least once a week to oversee his companies operations, he is the CEO of Jetstar Airways, the low-cost subsidiary of Australian airline Qantas. Joyce who has been in Aviation for 19 years says he’s hooked on the industry, even applied to become a pilot many years ago. Joyce; I think when you get the smell of jet fuel in your nostrils you get addicted to the industry. I’ve now been 20 years just about in the industry and I started straight out of university and have never looked back. We have a benefit we believe in new aircraft Tung; Joyce didn’t make it as a pilot but his career took off. He worked for Irish airlines Air Lingus before joining Australian airlines Ansett Airlines in 1996, he left a year before it collapsed to join Qantas, but Ansett’s demise made a big impact on him and the countries aviation industry. Joyce; Absolutely at Ansett in its last few years wasn’t aggressive enough to protect it’s position. Didn’t get it’s costs out, didn’t manage it’s business effectively, and I think it teaches you in a business that you have to act decisively and fast and not underestimate your competition otherwise you could end up as a dinosaur as Ansett did. Tung; Joyces big break came when Qantas appointed him to set up a low cost subsidiary in 2003. Joyce; We went in very skeptical because not full service airline had ever successfully set up a low cost carrier, so a bit of apprehension but great excitement at the opportunity that that created, it’s something you have to grab when opportunities like that only come across your life once so it’s something you have to grab when it does. Tung; In May of 2004 Joyce launched Jetstar Airways, he had built a business model from scratch, tapping on the experiences of seasoned players around the globe. Joyce; We went through every low cost carrier that we could research and we decided to look at what we thought were the best examples of what.. of the best low-cost carriers in the world and try to learn from them. At the same time we took all the failures and particularly the failure that were set up by full service carriers and tried to learn lessons of what went wrong so we didn’t repeat them. We knew we had to be the lowest cost operator and we targeted a ten percent cost level below Virgins. So how did we do that, we said lets look at every aspect of the airline and figure out how we could get an advantage, we developed what we called production driven scheduling where the aircraft returned to its home base every night and the aircraft is on minimum turns so we maximize the rostering of crewing and the aircraft and today we think our cost base is 15 to 20 percent below Virgins, its grown every year since our operation. Tung; You talk a lot about crew but one big part about how you control cost is to keep the wages of pilots low, that met with some opposition unions who said that this was eroding pay and conditions, how did you deal with this very sensitive issue? Joyce; Well one thing I’d say it wasn’t keeping the pay of pilots low, I think we pay the pilots a fair amount and some of the salaries and a Captain in Jetstar still can get paid, by flying over the 75 hours a month - when he gets overtime, still can get paid close to $200K dollars a year in salary. Tung; But these unions are very demanding. Joyce; But they are, and Qantas pays a lot more for the same aircraft. For our view was always that Qantas was overpaying and and and that was a legacy issue over a period of time and the market was very different. We work, we’re very engaged with our pilots, most of our pilots came from two organizations, Impulse Airlines and Ansett Airlines, and they they they knew what it was to go through a failed organization, that was our business. Now our Chief Pilot is an example, when Ansett, he came from Ansett, massive amount of experience of flying the A320 which we fly. When Ansett went bust he was gardening for a living, he was mowing laws and he was dumping grass into containers, um he did that for a number of months, couldn’t get a job. When Jetstar started and we paid decent wages, decent opportunities, um he was so engaged to get back into the employment field as most of our pilots are. Tung; So how did you get the unions on your side in the end. Joyce; We ended up going around, we do roadshows all the time to our staff we communicate to the staff about what the competition is like, why we need to be competitive on cost, why our market dictates to us if were not competitive on cost we could be out of business. We explain to them the logic of the returns we need to give to shareholders for investment. The explain to them the opportunities for growth, and their a sensible bunch of individuals, cleaver individuals, they listen, they understand your logic and the persuasion of argument and discussion and get them engaged in the business is the way we’ve always moved forwards. Tung; Since its launch, traffic has surged, gaining more than 15% market share within Australia. Joyce attributes a large part of Jetstars success to its independence from it’s parent carrier. Joyce; A lot of the failed low-cost carriers set up by full-cost carriers, failed because they didn’t get the right cost base and they ended up compromising, we call it death by a thousand lashes and the they compromises happen because you’ve decided you’ll get Qantas to do this and and little bits at a time. Tung; You didn’t want to get caught in that? Joyce; And we didn’t want to be caught in that, so we decided we had to be zealots, completely independent, different city, we’re in Melbourne, Qantas is in Sydney, um and you know that gave us a huge independence, has it’s own stand alone operation and it’s costs are real and that’s what we achieved. Tung; How do you balance the need to stay independent and yet still enjoy some of the synergies that your parent offers. Joyce; That’s that’s having the best of both worlds which I think we do. So when we buy fuel, er, we do that as a group activity because there’s a benefit to both so we go out there and put our our fuel purchases together and get a massive discount. But other things like Engineering, you know Qantas is a lot more expensive, so we don’t, when we tender it and find them expensive we don’t use them, we go else ware. And it’s that absolute commitment to using the lowest cost supplier in every category and what benefits the organization and we find that’s really important. Tung; By the time Jetstar took off, your domestic rival ,your biggest rival, Virgin Blue already had a four year head start, what did you have to do to catch up? Joyce; Well we started very big at the start and that did cause a few teething problems. Because we started with 15 aircraft, that was one of the important things, to get to that critical mass. And Secondly we had to spend, we spent a lot at start up, we spent 20 Million on marketing the brand, with in, and we got a lot of publicity, we did a lot of stunts, a lot of things to get publicity. And within a few months of operation we had a 98% brand recognition, unheard of, which really helped because we had to beat Virgin, such a great brand, we had to have something that was very well recognized and that would mean a lot of spending, a lot of commitment and we’d pay back the money within the first year. Tung; Today you own more than 15% market share of the Australian domestic market and you are facing new competition from Singapore’s Tiger Airways. What are you doing to protect your turf? Joyce; Well our turf is the low fares leadership and having the lowest costs to deliver on that low fares leadership. And we are doing everything in our power to make sure our costs are below those of Tigers so we can economically sustain delivering those airfares and that commitment. Um, it’s great having, um, more and more competition because I think it keeps everybody on their toes, it’s bought an air of excitement back to my organization, challenge is always very good. The new boy on the block always get the publicity but were very much focused also on Virgin because that’s still the bigger threat for us going forward. Tung; Today in Australia you fly to around 20 destinations, can you continue to grow without cannibalizing your parent Qantas business? Joyce; Yes, I think over- over the last few of years we’ve discovered with the flying community that is a relationship of how the two airlines work together to decide on routes, we, we have figured out how to use both brands, sometimes we’ve made a mistake like we used both brands on Hamilton Island and it did cannibalize Qantas and Jetstar wasn’t making money, it didn’t work. Qantas is no longer going to Hamilton. Recently we’ve had a major success in Honolulu, both carriers flying to Honolulu, both are making money, Qantas never made money on Honolulu. Qantas is just growing it , Jetstar is just growing it, our competition is suffering because we are both doing very well. So we’re learning as we are going, how to use this very successful pincer movement, two brand strategy to get the best for both airlines and it’s a very effective tool. Tung; In the last three and a half years you know Jetstar has tripled it’s size, carried over 22 million passengers, you now operate a fleet of twenty four aircraft, where do you see Jetstar three to five years from now? Joyce; Well we see it even being bigger, we’ll probably be in three to five years, we’ll probably be ten to twelve times the size when we originally started, we’ll be mostly an international carrier, most of our revenue will come from overseas. We’ll have a fleet of probably close to a hundred aircraft by that stage which will make us one of the biggest players in the region and there’s not many airlines in the world which are up to that size, we have the momentum to keep on growing at that rate and have a Pan Asian brand that’s equivalent of Ryan air of Europe or Southwest of the US. |
After all the chest beating and slandering of anyone and everyone at Jetstar, by the usual QF astronaut suspects, and for years now - this is truly poetic.
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The Qantas Culture
Joyce is an outsider.
He has no support group or friends in Qantas(apart from Dixon) There will be those who will seek to undermine him. Joyce will be fighting battles on may fronts. The resentment in Qantas may well make him a lame duck CEO. A general is impotent without the support of his troops. Making Joyce the CEO may awaken the sleeping giant of employee unity and fill it with a resolve Joyce may well find impossible to resist. Strap in...its going to be an even bumpier ride |
Jet_A_Knight,
Don't get too excited, Joyce was charged with setting up JetStar seemingly regardless of how it effected Mainline. Now he's to run and answer for the whole show don't think for a minute he'll be JetStar's friend if that business is not performing. Indeed, of anyone in the company, he must have the best idea of what sh*t is hiding in which JetStar cupboards. If the recent, unfortunate, job cuts in Adelaide are anything to go by then I wouldn't be gloating too much from the LCC side of the fence - Joyce would have been in the centre of the loop of that decision whilst at the same time negotiating this new position.:rolleyes: |
"Joyce didn’t make it as a pilot but his career took off".
Sort of says it all really. Astronaut hardly, but the chips on the shoulder that Joyce posseses have benefited those who also posess them. It is this acidic culture I had hoped would be a thing of the past. As for me I think the economic perfect storm will be far beyond the ability of the little fella. It is that ignorance and his repetition of the Dixon mantra that will in my opinion, mean the company is looking the wrong way when it gets swamped. |
Have to agree with you Mud Skipper.
Joyce's "charge" whilst CEO of J* was to do the best for J* & I all realise that was at the expense of QF mainline. Now in charge of mainline & knowing where the expenses are hidden, his obligation is to mainline & the board & the brand. Clifford is no dummy, Joyce wouldnt have been appointed if the way forward advertised by Joyce wasnt to Cliffords liking or indeed the future strategy not Cliffords own. MC:8 |
Another Impending Announcement
Joyce was annointed in late March.
The difficulty has been finding a suitable candidate to replace him at JetStar. In the next few days/weeks another announcement regarding Joyce's successor wil be made.. Prepare to be further surprised. |
May you (we) live in interesting times!:{
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Come - on Packrat - tell us......... this is a rumours forum - tell - tell all!!!!
Does it have anything to do with another person who has announced their retirement from QF within the last week? |
it looks like
there is a major restructuring coming. AJ certainly will bring some of his own trusted people along and dispose of some of the current qf crop. i think PG/JB may have to update their CV's. AJ is not a good communicator therfore it will be more difficult for him to engage/get respect from the current QF staff.
lets also not forget how much Leigh Clifford dislikes unions, therfore the GD style of confrontation will continue. Time will tell but it certainly wont be any better then before.:oh: |
Mav, you still got that number for that Bus driving school?
1-800-JETSTAR I think. :bored: |
Mstr Caution, the problem is that Joyce is not in charge of mainline and has no obligation to mainline, he is in charge of the Qantas group. His only obligation is to extract maximum profit from the group.
By appointing him as the new CEO, the board has telegraphed their intention that they believe the way forward is the continuation of the current plan of reducing mainline and growing Jetstar. |
How many of you Jetstar/Joyce haters are the same people who urged JQ pilots not to sign the EBA a few short months back. "You'll get a better deal if you stick with AIPA and wait a few months"......hmmm....and these are the same clowns telling everyone the sky is falling in because Qantas, the "Flying Sheltered Workshop and Airline Museum" has a new CEO.
Ho bloody hum. Advances in the airline industry and aviation as a whole have come from people who do....not featherbedded pilots who bleat. |
Wooby is right - expect more of the same with Jetstar expanding and QF shrinking. All part of the master plan to migrate Qantas mainline costs to a MUCH lower level.
Not a good move for any JQ drivers to become involved with the AIPA who will now be even more determined to try and protect their future. |
They'll need a new "welcome onboard" message...
Something like: "Welcome to Qantas, a wholly owned subsidiary of Jetstar Airways P/L".:*
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It's fairly obvious now as to what the "Dixon Plan " was/is.
JetStar to grow to a 100 fleet plus airline. Obviously at Qantas' expense. All very well, but where do you think all those pilots needed to fly those aircraft are going to come from? Forget 457 visas. The overall crewing establishment of a combined QF/JQ ,with forecast growth, won't change, only the mix will. It's obvious that for JetStar to grow Qantas must shrink and it's only logical that a large number of those "polluting Qantas pilots " will be working for the LCC offshoot? (Is that soon to be parent?) Is this what was meant by soon to be ex-Chief Pilot Manning when he waxed lyrically about how they ? (management?) had given up trying to convince Qantas Captains of managements vision. The future of the company lay in it's S/O's and F/O's. Just look at how the payscales in JetStar have been pitched. For a Qantas S/O or F/O to take an upgrade under a JetStar type contract will mostly mean the upgrade in rank without a corresponding upgrade in pay or conditions. Faced with the alternative I'd say most will jump. However Qantas Captains by and large will be looking at a sizable pay cut. Leaves you to wonder what if anything they can do. Leaving the present EBA open would be an obvious tactic to gain some form of negotiating leverage over the new management team and try and extract some sort of guarantees. No wonder management never expected to "win over" those individuals. This is going to make for some very interesting group dynamics. One question that springs to mind is the concept of a "group opportunity list" once there becomes no differences in cost. What sort of a seniority integration list will evolve? Interesting times indeed. Here's to the future, what ever it may bring. |
Qantas share price down....
Could have something to do with Manila but the CEO selection has hardly been taken well by the market! Is this guy the answer to the QF problems? |
DJ Qantas CEO Geoff Dixon's Strategies To Be Continued - Joyce28/07/2008 03:02PM AEST
MELBOURNE (Dow Jones)--Qantas Airways Ltd.'s (QAN.AU) new chief executive-elect, Alan Joyce, Monday said he plans to continue the strategies forged by current boss Geoff Dixon. "This is a change of baton," Joyce, the current head of Qantas' budget offshoot Jetstar, said at a media briefing. "There'll be a continuation of a lot of the strategies that Geoff has employed and particularly the two brands strategy and the segmentation of the business which I think are important for our future." Joyce was anointed earlier Monday as Dixon's successor and will take up the role after the company's annual shareholder meeting on Nov. 28. Dixon, who has led the company since 2000, will stay on in a consultancy role until March 2009. Asked about the likelihood of increased consolidation in the aviation industry given the effect of soaring jet fuel prices, Dixon told the briefing he believes strongly in consolidation. "I think there will be consolidation at a much more rapid pace," Dixon said. "And personally, and I'm on my way out...I do not believe that Qantas will not, someway or another, consolidate with some other airline some time in the future." Joyce said he agreed that if the current high fuel price continued a lot of airlines won't be economic as stand alone entities. "I think Qantas will keep an eye out for opportunities," Joyce said. Commenting on trade, Dixon said Qantas was "doing better" than he would've thought given the fuel prices and turmoil in financial markets. "We're trading pretty well," Dixon said. "We're still pretty confident of the future but it's difficult times." |
The Ducks Are Lining Up
The pilot EBA almost completed
The LAME deal done CC EBA done and dusted for 5 years Dixon Departs Joyce arrives The decks are cleared. Now read the fine print in these new awards. The detail will provide some clues as to the direction of Qantas under Joyce. Some employees will be working under the JetStar banner whether they like it or not. Qantas is morphing into a new corporate creature. One that most of us wont like. |
All this Doom n Gloom!
Now let me get this straight....... Joyce gets the top job at QF. So what does he do? According to some of you lot he deliberately and with ruthless zeal destroys the airline thus biting the hand that feeds him. And all this because he thinks his pilots are overpaid right? Is he really that stupid?:= |
Every experienced GA/regoinal driver in the country should be stoked it's Joyce's trainset now! :D
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The crikey.com.au take on it all...
Dixon ejects as Qantas jumps for Joyce Ben Sandilands writes: While Geoff Dixon appears to have been ejected from Qantas faster than an oxygen bottle can burst through the side of a rusting jet, tips about an announcement of his successor were being made weeks ago. The shock however comes from Alan Joyce, the CEO of Jetstar, being named designate chief executive over the favourite Peter Greg, the CFO, and the second favourite, executive general manager John Borghetti. With hindsight there were clues from Jetstar people that Joyce was indeed the man, including jokes about how good the giant Airbus A380 would look in Jetstar colours. Dixon achieved incredibly good things for Qantas shareholders, and the Australian Government, since he turned into a taxpaying enterprise an airline that more than recovered all the losses it had incurred between being nationalised by the Chifley government upon the end of World War II and privatised in 1993. His critics, however, damn him for also diminishing the Qantas brand by under resourcing maintenance to the point where the airline stood more for unreliable and dirty jets than quality flight, and safety was eroded to the point where overflowing sinks nearly brought down a 747 when they shorted most of the electrical system. It is a controversial legacy, and it's a fair bet to say Dixon won’t give a damn. At the recent media conference announcing job cuts at Qantas he was challenged about the legacy he would leave when he left. He replied, "I don’t even think about my legacy." At that conference Dixon said he expected to leave around mid February, when the first half results for the current year are released. Joyce is very much a non-legacy man too. He has driven Dixon’s agenda for rooting out legacy mindsets and entrenched work practices in Jetstar in pursuit of a new mass market for low fares and undermining the old Qantas ways until, eventually, its procedures and standards would be those of the budget carrier. It had been widely expected that Jetstar will in effect take over Qantas. But not under Joyce. Coincidentally, there are signs of problems with the Jetstar model during high fuel prices and economic uncertainty. Dixon is on the record many times recently as saying demand was drying up at the low fare end of the market. And his critics had argued that he was also disguising the subsidising of Jetstar through the transfer of assets from Qantas. How Joyce deals with the new dynamics of high oil air transport is the big unknown. |
Whatever your view of the CEO elect is......it is the timing of the announcement that I find curious.
Is this an attempt to deflect attention from the aircraft in Manila or is this one incident/crisis too many for GD? Qantas, the "Flying Sheltered Workshop and Airline Museum" has a new CEO. However,if J* is lucky enough to survive as long as Qantas has and build a reputation as Qantas has then you might be in a position to make remarks like that in around 80 years or so... |
Now that Joyce has won the pot of gold ,so to speak ,and is now ,or soon will be, the "face" of Qantas, I wonder if maybe he could now afford some dental work along with some elocution classes mixed with some speech pathology!:}
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Can anyone confirm whether Alan Joyce is an AUSTRALIAN?
Could this be another example of Qantas outsourcing? |
Qantas. The world's most experienced f%$*UP!
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Can anyone confirm whether Alan Joyce is an AUSTRALIAN? |
AJ is a
dual citizen, aussie and irish. once again ben sandilands puts the Qantas story it in a rather good context.:zzz:
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CEO
Silver and Orange paint ????
I Hope they have lots of White and Red Paint for all the JQ aircraft that are going to be painted .... mark my words over nite JQ will become QF ......:ouch: |
Tough Challenge
It will be a very big challenge ahead for Alan Joyce now he is in charge of the entire Qantas Group.
He did a very good job in helping to get Jetstar off the ground and this is his reward. One also needs to take in to account that he had the benefit of Qantas backing when purchasing shiny new aircraft(at cheap prices) with well established infrastructure already in place provided by Qantas.Not many stand alone LCC's have this backing in the formative years. People are keen to draw quick comparisons to Michael O Leary from Ryanair. Let us not forget that Joyce has simply copied the Ryanair/Easyjet/Southwest model. He may well be a good manager but he is no visionary. A very good copycat perhaps.This does not make him a poor manager however. Mainline has an old fleet so it will be interesting to see how he will also handle the other aspects of the Group such as Frequent flyer/ Freight/ Holidays e.t.c. I think the doom and gloom prospects are overplayed.Jetstar is a low cost product that could not compete on premium routes as it is not a premium product.It has and will continue to have its place just as mainline will continue to. I wish him all the best for what will be a tough job ahead.If he treats his staff with respect then perhaps the outcome could be positive for all employees and shareholders. Lets give the man a chance. |
What is the perfered alternative ??
Dixon ? Gregg ? Borgetti ? Amongst those names, surely Joyce dosent sound so bad..... does it ?? |
The new CEO
http://www.tonyskansascity.com/tonys...Leprechaun.jpg and a look into the future http://www.rideagainstaids.com/DSCN0306small.JPG |
Does Joyce actually speak to staff, if so that's an improvement on Darth, if not, no change.
Darth has alienated the entire workforce - if Joyce wants the company to survive he needs the staff on side. |
At least he will assist the engineers to do dual safty checks
two be sure,two be sure |
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