Sorry!
 

I humbly apologise; unreservedly.

I was completely unawares that Ausfic was joining the struggle also.

Good luck to all involved, I hope it makes the other side come to the table with a better offer.

Why all the fuss?
 

Griffo,

You may say 18%+ over three and half but I read the AVNET and I believe everything the CEO says:

"ATCs 4.3% per year". If that is true why did it take so long?

ER.

seeeeeeeeeeing is beeeeeeelieving
 

Ymmm C2173/09 Review C2159/09
Fac Domestic Hf Not Avbl
Due Industrial Action
As Per En Route Supplement Australia (ersa)
Gen Fis 7 Para 17.1 Use Of Mobile Telephones In Aircraft

Melbourne Atc Centre 03 93384032

Brisbane Atc Centre 07 32163127
From 03 270300 To 03 270700

The UFU deal is completely out in the open and clearly is a crock. The Fireies bought a pup!:sad:

The Civil Air deal is all hush hush with copious layers of bullSh1T COVER UP about needing gov approval before distribution. Utter rubbish.:suspect:

MR Russel says that the deal on offer to CPSU, CEPU etc is comparable to that offered to Civil Air and UFU. soooooooooooooooooooooooooooo........

WHAT EXACTLY is the civil air deal if it is so fair and reasonable for the organisations involved????:confused::confused:

LET US see it and LET US make that assessment huh!!!!!!

• 18.5% over 3.5 years
• RETENTION of UNLIMITED SICK LEAVE
• RETENTION of ANNUAL PERFORMANCE BONUS
• RETENTION of 36hrs week
• No sign on bonus BUT a Flatter structure - 13 layers compressed to 9 that sees ALL staff go up an immediate pay rise in excess of the former signon bonus ($2500)

....AND the REAL KICKER is that this "covert" secret squirrel under the table back room salary bonus now counts for salary for all purposes for evera and a day and therefore sees an instant winfall in SUPERANNUATION by a VERY considerable amount. 6-10 times in fact for a defined benefits avsuper memba.

bit more than the TOTAL ELIMINATION OF AN ANNUAL MAYBE PAYMENT OF 1% of salary if the company...yes COMPANY....the whole bloody COMPANY....performs dont you think???:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

THAT IS NO WHERE NEAR THE DEAL ON OFFER to the rest of the organisation.:yuk::yuk:

Oh, hang on, my mistake, this is the "better way of doing things"..... too bad we have seen all these tactics before.
:*:*:*

Sounds to me like you knobs should not have voted to go it yourselves now dosen't it?

Slugfest
 

There's always one tossa!!!!

That means EWE.

Slugfest
1 of your 5 dot points is just completely inaccurate.
The other 4 are exagerrated - ranging from slightly to more than a little.
And you left out some conditional/qualifying points that would put a bit of context on things.

uATC,

I await your context and specific corrections with keen interest.

Slugfest,
Don't expect any details of the civilair offer to appear here before it has gone through government processing. The process has been too long and drawn out. We are still waiting to see the full document and to have the opportunity to vote on it. No one on the civil air side wants to see that put in jeopardy!

Once due process has been followed I am sure you will see the detail. Until then I wish you well with your fight. If there was one agreement we would all be in this together, but that is not the way of our organization... they have divided and now seek to conquer, we must all stand strong. And part of that is to respect the wishes of other groups by not trying to antagonize each other or trying to find details of negotiations through spreading rumor (lest you be called a troll). So once again, patience!

And to the civilair members, congrats on the solidarity shown so far!!!

I just wish that the resolution of the agreement would also fix the staffing and training issues. :(

I don't accept that if details were to come out it would compromise the situation of Civilair. If someone were to release the draft document (which currently only the CivilAir president has) why would ASA suddenly pull the pin on the whole process?

There is only one reason why details are not being released into the public domain and that is so ASA can deceive corporate staff on the real deal that is being offered to ATC. End of story.

ASA management claim what is being offered is 'fair and reasonable' compared to other agreements but will not give any details of said agreements.

FBW,
Wrong.

Every member has access to the proposed ATC agreement, they just have to ask their delegates to have a look.

It is not AsA they are trying to keep it from; it is the politicians, the public, and other people that would try and play loose and free with the interpretations.
We dont want anyone to try and turn our hard fought agreement into a political football, or try and ride on our coat tails to use it for themselves.

Thankfully, we have a united membership that shows patience.

As soon as the Minister signs it off, I will be happy to send as many copies to you as you like.

I take your point, put it this way I don't like choking on the crap that is being shoved down the throats of corporate staff by management without having any real evidence to being able to throw back at them. They are engaged in deceptive and misleading conduct and it is a disgrace.

I am a member I have been asking for a copy for 3 weeks and no one will give me one. whats the big secret it sounds like a heap BS to me:confused:

Have you phoned your delegate and askeed them for a briefing over the phone?

FBW you do have the firies agreement up to compare with. Is that not good enough?

The point I was trying (unsuccessfully) to make was that if the overall offer is 4.3% per annum (which we know the overall increase isn't) then why would there be so much secrecy around it from management?

It's their usual divide and conquer strategy. Nothing new there.

FBW is correct.

Civil Air and it's membership have endured too much crap for too long in this CA 'negotiation' to have it jeopardised by it becoming a political football.

Anyone who is a member of Civil Air and does not know what is contained in the draft agreement by now hasn't tried very hard to find out.

I would suggest there are plenty of trolls here.

Slugfest,
I think enough people have already said it for me, but I will not be going into any details before Civilair says I can.
I just wanted you to know that your source may have not been as accurate or informed as they should have been.
If - as it appears - you are not affected by the ATC eba, I wish you well in your struggle - but please don't ask for details I'm not allowed to give you yet.

so how did no hf go today?