TAAE about to bite dust?
Join Date: May 2000
Location: honkers
Posts: 166
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
my sources tell me that the disbursement of "management fees" and some other large amounts referred to in section 7 of the report will require further investigations. by the administrator. if these prove to reveal any missappropriation of funds then it will not be AITK that will have sleepless nights.
Guest
Posts: n/a
OK , I give in , Pilfered, Bled Dry and siphoned were not the words used by the Administrator. But I think they were the words he WANTED to use !
The report is in wide circulation - every creditor got one - that’s about 50 companies. Get a copy and make your own mind up. Its black and white that money was leaving the company on a weekly basis ( nearly $17,000 every week sent to the Singapore company plus other lump sums of $50k here and there) so much so that the administrator felt it necessary to point this out in detail ,and then go on to say that it required further investigation. It was accounted for as "management fees" . This being on top of a $250,000 salary.
I unreservedly apologise if there is a legit reason for this money going out the door like this , but I suspect that if there was , then the Administrator would have been satisfied with the answers and would not have needed to bring it to everyone’s attention. As I have here in this forum .
Sleepless nights - nah , not me.
The report is in wide circulation - every creditor got one - that’s about 50 companies. Get a copy and make your own mind up. Its black and white that money was leaving the company on a weekly basis ( nearly $17,000 every week sent to the Singapore company plus other lump sums of $50k here and there) so much so that the administrator felt it necessary to point this out in detail ,and then go on to say that it required further investigation. It was accounted for as "management fees" . This being on top of a $250,000 salary.
I unreservedly apologise if there is a legit reason for this money going out the door like this , but I suspect that if there was , then the Administrator would have been satisfied with the answers and would not have needed to bring it to everyone’s attention. As I have here in this forum .
Sleepless nights - nah , not me.
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: AUS
Posts: 356
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
AITK
Don't get me wrong, I sympathise. However having pored over more than one administrators interim report to creditors from the wrong side of the fence, so far so ordinary.
Of course money was flowing all over the place. Thats what money does. Was the law broken technically enough to ever see charges laid?. Who knows, I don't, you don't, the administators don,t. They just make motherhood statements as a matter of course to soothe fevered brow's.
All I am saying is that what you wrote above is by any measure grounds for a threat to sue for defamation.
Don't get me wrong, I sympathise. However having pored over more than one administrators interim report to creditors from the wrong side of the fence, so far so ordinary.
Of course money was flowing all over the place. Thats what money does. Was the law broken technically enough to ever see charges laid?. Who knows, I don't, you don't, the administators don,t. They just make motherhood statements as a matter of course to soothe fevered brow's.
All I am saying is that what you wrote above is by any measure grounds for a threat to sue for defamation.
Join Date: Aug 1998
Location: ...second left, past the lights.
Posts: 1,101
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
I'm hearing a Shorts "Belfast" is soon to be here?. (Heavylift)
34 tonne payload, 105 tonne MTOW and with 4 of the ol'Rolls Turbines (Tyes), noisier than a Honeymooners bedhead...
Bringing over a B727 fuselage? or to be launched into the night freight runs?
34 tonne payload, 105 tonne MTOW and with 4 of the ol'Rolls Turbines (Tyes), noisier than a Honeymooners bedhead...
Bringing over a B727 fuselage? or to be launched into the night freight runs?
Thread Starter
AITK
I think your safe, there's no way known Griffin and Brown would want to test their integrity in a court and that's the only way to challenge you.
They have a few other skeletons in the closet!!
I think your safe, there's no way known Griffin and Brown would want to test their integrity in a court and that's the only way to challenge you.
They have a few other skeletons in the closet!!
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: nomadic
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Just came back from long service leave and encounter the sad news and assorted comments on TAAE.
However I received the true guts from a close friend who heard it from his next door neighbor’s uncle - who just happened to be familiar with the goings on at National Jet where his old man worked - who in turn was told by a reliable source – the hangar cleaner – that the truth was revealed by a taxi driver with strange eyes – probably from the drugs supplied by his mate’s sister who is now in jail – which is a ****** because she sold them and herself pretty cheaply – that TAAE will be purchased by Aeroflot.
Last night it took me three reads to get the story worked out. And some of the opinions are good. Then – it all looks that way after a full bottle of red.
Today I phoned another source of information - sometimes reliable – sometimes way off beam.
He confirms various aspects reported on PPRUNE.
It seems that d-concord’s comments that TAAE didn’t go titsup because of CASA – but despite them - are correct. And this is now becoming more obvious – and stated well by Aviator-in-the-know – “the company had been bled dry by the owners”.
However d-concord’s reporting reflects some considerable anger for the ex-CASA ex-Ansett now Chief Pilot at TAAE. It would be interesting to know more about what seem to be personal issues between d-concord and the CP.
The blanket statement by d-concord that “The management of this company is atrocious” may be coloured by whatever it is that upsets him with the CP.
Now Wingnuts comments about “CASA compliance” as an explanation for TAAE going titsup also appears to be incorrect.
The “last two C Checks” overrunning budget is off the mark.
TAAE have been in existence for something like 12 months and their contract with AaE has been in place for about 9 months.
Under TAAE – there has been only one major check – and that was on VH-VLF (previously registered as VH-AUP) and involved a complete heavy check – up to a 10C. This check did not involve CASA requiring every component without a known history to be changed. The aircraft has been operating in Australia as a freighter for five or six years.
However one aircraft – being VH-TXH did undergo extensive maintenance in September 2002. But not under TAAE – as it did not exist then. This aircraft apparently come from the USA as a **** bucket and CASA required significant component replacement. This was not unexpected by the more astute observers at Aero Marine (the company that TAAE eventually took over). This aircraft was not inspected prior to its arrival and delivery was arranged by Trans World Leasing – the Company that eventually spawned TAAE.
The more recent aircraft – being VH-VLH and VH-VLI – were sourced from Europe and had numerous components changed prior to their arrival in Oz. But it is unclear whether these costs were borne by TAAE.
These aircraft have yet to undergo heavy maintenance by TAAE – and this may now not happen - with the demise of this Company.
Aviator-in-the-know – any chance of publishing the Report to Creditors on PPRUNE??
Sore-foot
However I received the true guts from a close friend who heard it from his next door neighbor’s uncle - who just happened to be familiar with the goings on at National Jet where his old man worked - who in turn was told by a reliable source – the hangar cleaner – that the truth was revealed by a taxi driver with strange eyes – probably from the drugs supplied by his mate’s sister who is now in jail – which is a ****** because she sold them and herself pretty cheaply – that TAAE will be purchased by Aeroflot.
Last night it took me three reads to get the story worked out. And some of the opinions are good. Then – it all looks that way after a full bottle of red.
Today I phoned another source of information - sometimes reliable – sometimes way off beam.
He confirms various aspects reported on PPRUNE.
It seems that d-concord’s comments that TAAE didn’t go titsup because of CASA – but despite them - are correct. And this is now becoming more obvious – and stated well by Aviator-in-the-know – “the company had been bled dry by the owners”.
However d-concord’s reporting reflects some considerable anger for the ex-CASA ex-Ansett now Chief Pilot at TAAE. It would be interesting to know more about what seem to be personal issues between d-concord and the CP.
The blanket statement by d-concord that “The management of this company is atrocious” may be coloured by whatever it is that upsets him with the CP.
Now Wingnuts comments about “CASA compliance” as an explanation for TAAE going titsup also appears to be incorrect.
The “last two C Checks” overrunning budget is off the mark.
TAAE have been in existence for something like 12 months and their contract with AaE has been in place for about 9 months.
Under TAAE – there has been only one major check – and that was on VH-VLF (previously registered as VH-AUP) and involved a complete heavy check – up to a 10C. This check did not involve CASA requiring every component without a known history to be changed. The aircraft has been operating in Australia as a freighter for five or six years.
However one aircraft – being VH-TXH did undergo extensive maintenance in September 2002. But not under TAAE – as it did not exist then. This aircraft apparently come from the USA as a **** bucket and CASA required significant component replacement. This was not unexpected by the more astute observers at Aero Marine (the company that TAAE eventually took over). This aircraft was not inspected prior to its arrival and delivery was arranged by Trans World Leasing – the Company that eventually spawned TAAE.
The more recent aircraft – being VH-VLH and VH-VLI – were sourced from Europe and had numerous components changed prior to their arrival in Oz. But it is unclear whether these costs were borne by TAAE.
These aircraft have yet to undergo heavy maintenance by TAAE – and this may now not happen - with the demise of this Company.
Aviator-in-the-know – any chance of publishing the Report to Creditors on PPRUNE??
Sore-foot
Thread Starter
Sore Foot,
Let me clarify a couple of things.
When I refer to Senior Management, I certianly don't mean the CP. I'm sure he tried to do the best job he could and had nothing whatsoever to do with the demise of TAAE.
The issue with the CP is not a personal one. I've never worked for him, with him, socialisied with him or worked with any company he has any involvement in, including his time with CASA.
My comments about the CP were in response to the premise that CASA had something to do with the demise of TAAE.
This issue is that this company was cut more slack by CASA than any other company in this position would have been and I would suggest that was because of the appointment of this particular CP coming directly from CASA. I don't know his abilities first hand and I'm sure he is a capable person. He may even have been even able to fix the so called deficiencies of this operation given the right environment and support.
However that is irrelevant, CASA should still be consistent. If anything CASA should ensure that they cannot be questioned on their objectivity and err the other way.
I've got all the administrators documents on both companies in administration and then some. This whole situation is a disgrace.
Like I said before, there are a lot of people already hurt in terms of creditors and there are about to be a lot of staff out of jobs including pilots and engineers. Another sad event in aviation.
Let me clarify a couple of things.
When I refer to Senior Management, I certianly don't mean the CP. I'm sure he tried to do the best job he could and had nothing whatsoever to do with the demise of TAAE.
The issue with the CP is not a personal one. I've never worked for him, with him, socialisied with him or worked with any company he has any involvement in, including his time with CASA.
My comments about the CP were in response to the premise that CASA had something to do with the demise of TAAE.
This issue is that this company was cut more slack by CASA than any other company in this position would have been and I would suggest that was because of the appointment of this particular CP coming directly from CASA. I don't know his abilities first hand and I'm sure he is a capable person. He may even have been even able to fix the so called deficiencies of this operation given the right environment and support.
However that is irrelevant, CASA should still be consistent. If anything CASA should ensure that they cannot be questioned on their objectivity and err the other way.
I've got all the administrators documents on both companies in administration and then some. This whole situation is a disgrace.
Like I said before, there are a lot of people already hurt in terms of creditors and there are about to be a lot of staff out of jobs including pilots and engineers. Another sad event in aviation.
Join Date: May 2000
Location: honkers
Posts: 166
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
spotlight.....you say
well it appears that two of the creditors are not happy with that theory and have sought independent legal advice. not unusual and I agree, makes sense to get "second opinion" when you are owed a lot of money. however the legal firm they have engaged was the same firm that chased a paper trail from the defunct Compass Mk11. their investigations in that case resulted in criminal charges being laid against three of the eight directors in that company. another "motherhood statement" no doubt?
d_concorde i owe you an apology. your sources were closer to the mark than mine in the early days. things are warming up now and i think the creditors and staff may soon have the truth.
Of course money was flowing all over the place. Thats what money does. Was the law broken technically enough to ever see charges laid?. Who knows, I don't, you don't, the administators don,t.
d_concorde i owe you an apology. your sources were closer to the mark than mine in the early days. things are warming up now and i think the creditors and staff may soon have the truth.
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: nomadic
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Truth Seeker – the truth is still out there – buried somewhere.
Was in the pub with an old mate whose son happens to be doing contract work for TAAE at the moment – and he recited some thirty rumours and possibilities on the future of that Company. As you can imagine – I cannot remember much.
But firstly a brief summary of what I understand was reported at the creditors meeting held this Tuesday.
There are four interested parties to buy TAAE.
They are:
(1) National Jet
(2) Airflite (out of Perth)
(3) Qantas
(4) some unnamed party.
None of the bids were acceptable and the bidders will be asked to make a further more realistic bid.
The involvement of the administrators has been extended for a further 60 days.
One of the TAAE directors has been asked to further explain and justify the amounts he took out of TAAE and placed into another Company he owns. A couple of million involved – but some of this amount has been accepted as reasonable by the Administrator.
There may have been additional information – perhaps others can provide an update.
Then there are the more prominent rumours/news circulating around the place. As far as I can recall they are:
The Airflite bid is a cover for Patricks.
AaE are “pressurizing” the administrator to make a quick and cheap deal – with National Jet. To this end they have threatened to remove the indemnity for continued payment for the operation to TAAE. This has seen by the Administrator as a bully-boy bluff.
Although AaE have backed down (for the moment – while they look at plan D) they have obtained the withdrawal of one of the 727’s. But the ever cagey Administrator has put the aircraft to some other use – and secured short term work – not with AaE.
The identity of the unnamed bidder includes Singapore Airlines, Asian Air Express (operator of another B727 on the Australian register), a European consortium, Virgin Blue and possibly a local consortium (Fox and Lou??). But no mention of Aeroflot (pity).
That is about it.
Sore-foot
Was in the pub with an old mate whose son happens to be doing contract work for TAAE at the moment – and he recited some thirty rumours and possibilities on the future of that Company. As you can imagine – I cannot remember much.
But firstly a brief summary of what I understand was reported at the creditors meeting held this Tuesday.
There are four interested parties to buy TAAE.
They are:
(1) National Jet
(2) Airflite (out of Perth)
(3) Qantas
(4) some unnamed party.
None of the bids were acceptable and the bidders will be asked to make a further more realistic bid.
The involvement of the administrators has been extended for a further 60 days.
One of the TAAE directors has been asked to further explain and justify the amounts he took out of TAAE and placed into another Company he owns. A couple of million involved – but some of this amount has been accepted as reasonable by the Administrator.
There may have been additional information – perhaps others can provide an update.
Then there are the more prominent rumours/news circulating around the place. As far as I can recall they are:
The Airflite bid is a cover for Patricks.
AaE are “pressurizing” the administrator to make a quick and cheap deal – with National Jet. To this end they have threatened to remove the indemnity for continued payment for the operation to TAAE. This has seen by the Administrator as a bully-boy bluff.
Although AaE have backed down (for the moment – while they look at plan D) they have obtained the withdrawal of one of the 727’s. But the ever cagey Administrator has put the aircraft to some other use – and secured short term work – not with AaE.
The identity of the unnamed bidder includes Singapore Airlines, Asian Air Express (operator of another B727 on the Australian register), a European consortium, Virgin Blue and possibly a local consortium (Fox and Lou??). But no mention of Aeroflot (pity).
That is about it.
Sore-foot
Evertonian
Hmmm, the mysterious mystery bidder again! Do all administrators bring that old chestnut out, or is it limited to aviation?Geez, the opportunities you see when you've got no money!
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Metung RSL or Collingwood Social Club on weekends!
Posts: 645
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Mystery bidder ? Never in a million years Buster, you and I know it is SINGAPORE AIRLINES. Mentha & Korda are probably the administrators. Why is it every time an airline downunder goes into administration, SQ is always sniffing around?
Same bet goes for this outfit as with AN. A slab of VB says SQ won't have the aggetts to buy an airline down here in OZ.
Another slab says Collingwood to massacre Adelaide tomorrow night at the "Dome".
Keep the faith:]
Same bet goes for this outfit as with AN. A slab of VB says SQ won't have the aggetts to buy an airline down here in OZ.
Another slab says Collingwood to massacre Adelaide tomorrow night at the "Dome".
Keep the faith:]
Thread Starter
TSI,
No apologies needed here. Sorry for the delay replying.
Been away flying... shocking job but someone has to do it!! Must admit I appreciate the job even more when you watch this saga.
A little bit out of the loop of late however I know of one player not mentioned so far in the forum or at the creditors meeting. But I'm not sure if it is the so called mystery bidder.
They have previous extensive experience with 727's so are also not necessarily seeking Aeromarine for the AOC.
They did say they were frustrated with the administrator not responding and have started discussions with some lessors and others to establish what is there.
The reason I say they may not be the bidder is that they believe that there is really nothing that the administrator has to sell. No contract, no aircraft, a few assets worth ten cents in the dollar and an AOC that they can accomodate in other ways if needed.
I also understand that the creditors meeting tomorrow of Aeromarine may be pretty interesting as well.
Interesting times still to come I think. No matter what the outcome I suspect it's looking sad for most of the staff.
No apologies needed here. Sorry for the delay replying.
Been away flying... shocking job but someone has to do it!! Must admit I appreciate the job even more when you watch this saga.
A little bit out of the loop of late however I know of one player not mentioned so far in the forum or at the creditors meeting. But I'm not sure if it is the so called mystery bidder.
They have previous extensive experience with 727's so are also not necessarily seeking Aeromarine for the AOC.
They did say they were frustrated with the administrator not responding and have started discussions with some lessors and others to establish what is there.
The reason I say they may not be the bidder is that they believe that there is really nothing that the administrator has to sell. No contract, no aircraft, a few assets worth ten cents in the dollar and an AOC that they can accomodate in other ways if needed.
I also understand that the creditors meeting tomorrow of Aeromarine may be pretty interesting as well.
Interesting times still to come I think. No matter what the outcome I suspect it's looking sad for most of the staff.
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: nomadic
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
d-concord,
a very interesting piece of information.
The only player that I can recall that would fit your comments would be Independent Air Freighters. They ran a single 727 operation between Perth and Melbourne – for Ansett Freight. That particular aircraft is now in the TAAE stable – and undergoing some heavy maintenance.
I agree that they would have some experience. But would not that AOC be defunct??
And these days – to obtain a new AOC is one hell of a process. Both time consuming and expensive. So why not make an offer for an existing setup – being TAAE??
Sore-foot
a very interesting piece of information.
The only player that I can recall that would fit your comments would be Independent Air Freighters. They ran a single 727 operation between Perth and Melbourne – for Ansett Freight. That particular aircraft is now in the TAAE stable – and undergoing some heavy maintenance.
I agree that they would have some experience. But would not that AOC be defunct??
And these days – to obtain a new AOC is one hell of a process. Both time consuming and expensive. So why not make an offer for an existing setup – being TAAE??
Sore-foot
Thread Starter
Sore-foot,
It's not IAF. From my converstion this is how I interprete their position ( and I could be wrong).
I think that as they are not looking to operate for AAE, they don't see the need to pay the inflated cost the administrators would think Aeromarine is worth. The only reason for buying Aeromarine is if you need continuous operations to service AAE. Otherwise why pay the price and still have to go though hoops with CASA. I'd almost guarantee that CASA are going to take the attitude that any significant change in the operation will require a relook anyway and that will include management, ownership etc.
The see the set up as something that needs to be redone and in terms of 727 ops a relatively minor cost in the overall scheme of operating 727's. They have done it before and have some of the necessary structure to accomodate the operation.
They do however see value in the fact that the aircraft are on the register and as we know the aircraft are not in the control of the administrator.
I also know they are concerned about the culture/morale that will have developed within TAA as a result of this little event and would rather have a greenfield site. That said, I'm sure they will probably pick the eyes out of the satff if they go ahead and are they are still available. However they also have number of staff that they will bring back into operation.
I believe they are speaking??? Meeting ??? with the administrators tomorrow but with reservations about there being anything that would come of it. My discussion indicated that they didn't think too much of the administrators.
In summary the parts they want they can get external to the administrator and that is my reason for doubting whether this is the so called mystery bidder.
It's not IAF. From my converstion this is how I interprete their position ( and I could be wrong).
I think that as they are not looking to operate for AAE, they don't see the need to pay the inflated cost the administrators would think Aeromarine is worth. The only reason for buying Aeromarine is if you need continuous operations to service AAE. Otherwise why pay the price and still have to go though hoops with CASA. I'd almost guarantee that CASA are going to take the attitude that any significant change in the operation will require a relook anyway and that will include management, ownership etc.
The see the set up as something that needs to be redone and in terms of 727 ops a relatively minor cost in the overall scheme of operating 727's. They have done it before and have some of the necessary structure to accomodate the operation.
They do however see value in the fact that the aircraft are on the register and as we know the aircraft are not in the control of the administrator.
I also know they are concerned about the culture/morale that will have developed within TAA as a result of this little event and would rather have a greenfield site. That said, I'm sure they will probably pick the eyes out of the satff if they go ahead and are they are still available. However they also have number of staff that they will bring back into operation.
I believe they are speaking??? Meeting ??? with the administrators tomorrow but with reservations about there being anything that would come of it. My discussion indicated that they didn't think too much of the administrators.
In summary the parts they want they can get external to the administrator and that is my reason for doubting whether this is the so called mystery bidder.
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Metung RSL or Collingwood Social Club on weekends!
Posts: 645
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
VTM ................maaaate ! I'm off to Victoria Park tomorrow morning to organise Grand Final tickets - we deserve it this year.
oh..... and I wouldn't put QF out of the race with this outfit yet, could be part of Dixon's master plan.
Keep the faith :] good old Collingwood forever.
oh..... and I wouldn't put QF out of the race with this outfit yet, could be part of Dixon's master plan.Keep the faith :] good old Collingwood forever.