Non-competitive Air New Zealand
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
Thread Starter
Non-competitive Air New Zealand
Ever wondered why Air New Zealand are struggling?
A search of one of Japan's biggest travel agents might give some indication for the reason travellers shy away.
Below is a table to various N.Z. destinations from Osaka, highlighting how UN-competitve Air Sheep is. Prices are in Japanese yen:
NEW ZEALAND
AUCKLAND JUN. JUL. AUG. SEP.
Malaysia Airlines \55,000- \82,000- \92,000- \79,000-
Korean Air \70,000- \69,000- \85,000- \83,000-
Singapore Airlines \77,000- \98,000- \126,000- \126,000-
Thai Airways \84,000- \84,000- \111,000- \111,000-
Cathay Pacific \83,000- \85,000- \106,000- \95,000-
Qantas Airways \99,000- \94,000- \117,000- \117,000-
Air New Zealand \102,000- \102,000- \133,000- \133,000-
Showcase Malaysia (Air Ticket + Hotel) \70,000- \70,000- \70,000- \70,000-
CHRISTCHURCH JUN. JUL. AUG. SEP.
Singapore Airlines \77,000- \98,000- \126,000- \126,000-
Cathay Pacific+Qantas Airways \98,000- \100,000- \121,000- \110,000-
Qantas Airways \99,000- \94,000- \117,000- \117,000-
Air New Zealand \116,000- \112,000- \143,000- \143,000-
WELLINGTON JUN. JUL. AUG. SEP.
Cathay Pacific+Qantas Airways \98,000- \100,000- \121,000- \110,000-
Qantas Airways \99,000- \94,000- \117,000- \117,000-
Air New Zealand \116,000- \112,000- \143,000- \143,000-
For the record, QANTAS' prices to Australia were approximately median for the various airlines.
A search of one of Japan's biggest travel agents might give some indication for the reason travellers shy away.
Below is a table to various N.Z. destinations from Osaka, highlighting how UN-competitve Air Sheep is. Prices are in Japanese yen:
NEW ZEALAND
AUCKLAND JUN. JUL. AUG. SEP.
Malaysia Airlines \55,000- \82,000- \92,000- \79,000-
Korean Air \70,000- \69,000- \85,000- \83,000-
Singapore Airlines \77,000- \98,000- \126,000- \126,000-
Thai Airways \84,000- \84,000- \111,000- \111,000-
Cathay Pacific \83,000- \85,000- \106,000- \95,000-
Qantas Airways \99,000- \94,000- \117,000- \117,000-
Air New Zealand \102,000- \102,000- \133,000- \133,000-
Showcase Malaysia (Air Ticket + Hotel) \70,000- \70,000- \70,000- \70,000-
CHRISTCHURCH JUN. JUL. AUG. SEP.
Singapore Airlines \77,000- \98,000- \126,000- \126,000-
Cathay Pacific+Qantas Airways \98,000- \100,000- \121,000- \110,000-
Qantas Airways \99,000- \94,000- \117,000- \117,000-
Air New Zealand \116,000- \112,000- \143,000- \143,000-
WELLINGTON JUN. JUL. AUG. SEP.
Cathay Pacific+Qantas Airways \98,000- \100,000- \121,000- \110,000-
Qantas Airways \99,000- \94,000- \117,000- \117,000-
Air New Zealand \116,000- \112,000- \143,000- \143,000-
For the record, QANTAS' prices to Australia were approximately median for the various airlines.
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Its probably a bit why a dog licks its balls: because it can. All Japan/NZ Air NZ flights are direct,and, while I,m not absolutely certain, I suspect most of the flights you cite, M, are via somewhere else. People just can't be fcuked going via HKG, TPE, SIn, etc, to get to NZ.
edited, despite proof reading, for sp!
edited, despite proof reading, for sp!
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And the point being made is?
Fares adjust according to availability - as Air NZ reduced capacity, they must have increased the loads in the aircraft.
Also, how many of seats are pre-booked by tour ops who have consolidated ticketing - they will not be paying those fares. Our Japanese friends also have a habit of doing package tours. I remember being the only non Japanese passenger on a 146 from CHC - ROT. They fly into one centre, do the tour of each island and depart elsewhere (e.g. in CHC, out AKL)
As for Ansett.... history, that's all.
Also, how many of seats are pre-booked by tour ops who have consolidated ticketing - they will not be paying those fares. Our Japanese friends also have a habit of doing package tours. I remember being the only non Japanese passenger on a 146 from CHC - ROT. They fly into one centre, do the tour of each island and depart elsewhere (e.g. in CHC, out AKL)
As for Ansett.... history, that's all.
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
Thread Starter
Almost without exception, checking other destinations, airlines operating direct to their home base, are the cheapest - which is logical, as operating costs are reduced immensely.
Yet if you compare Air New Zealand's fare structure on the routes indicated, they are at least NZD200 more than the next most expensive.
I have travelled several times (on the clapped out 767's, with the wafer-thin, one-piece seats), and at those times the load factors were around the 75-80% mark.
My point is kev, Air New Zealand is NOT competitive wrt fares.
Their reputation (for service) isn't anything special, so why drive customers AWAY, with exorbitant ticket prices?
Perhaps the same logic that had ANZ rush in and buy Ansett (when they couldn't afford to) is the one used to determine ticket pricing!
Yet if you compare Air New Zealand's fare structure on the routes indicated, they are at least NZD200 more than the next most expensive.
I have travelled several times (on the clapped out 767's, with the wafer-thin, one-piece seats), and at those times the load factors were around the 75-80% mark.
My point is kev, Air New Zealand is NOT competitive wrt fares.
Their reputation (for service) isn't anything special, so why drive customers AWAY, with exorbitant ticket prices?
Perhaps the same logic that had ANZ rush in and buy Ansett (when they couldn't afford to) is the one used to determine ticket pricing!
Kap, if so bad why fly with them?
Also could you give us the source of these prices and load factors you list?
Just had a quick look at SYD-AKL-SYD (being the home bases) Date picked at random.
Leaving on the morning of 27th jul , returning next morning.
Internet fares from qf/nz web sites.
I dont think either include taxes.. Both in AU$ (return fares)
Air NZ
$ 1392.00 aircraft = 733 out and 763 back to syd.
QF
$ 1494.56 aircraft = 734 both ways.
I would rather travel in a 'clapped out' 767at least one way, than both ways in a sardine can.
Also could you give us the source of these prices and load factors you list?
Just had a quick look at SYD-AKL-SYD (being the home bases) Date picked at random.
Leaving on the morning of 27th jul , returning next morning.
Internet fares from qf/nz web sites.
I dont think either include taxes.. Both in AU$ (return fares)
Air NZ
$ 1392.00 aircraft = 733 out and 763 back to syd.
QF
$ 1494.56 aircraft = 734 both ways.
I would rather travel in a 'clapped out' 767at least one way, than both ways in a sardine can.
Last edited by CI300; 26th Jun 2003 at 19:01.
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Kap
After reading a number of reports from various websites it seems that the large majority of customers disagree with your comments about poor service on Air NZ.
From what I gather you seem to step on Air NZ with the intent of looking for the negatives. Guess what? Flying on QF is no picnic. They've just managed to draw our attention away from surly F/A's and groundstaff by installing PTV's etc.
Finally, why do you care how Air NZ perform? You seem to have it in for them from the start. Fly QF to ENZED if Air NZ is such a horror.
After reading a number of reports from various websites it seems that the large majority of customers disagree with your comments about poor service on Air NZ.
From what I gather you seem to step on Air NZ with the intent of looking for the negatives. Guess what? Flying on QF is no picnic. They've just managed to draw our attention away from surly F/A's and groundstaff by installing PTV's etc.
Finally, why do you care how Air NZ perform? You seem to have it in for them from the start. Fly QF to ENZED if Air NZ is such a horror.
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All airlines charge what a route/market will stand - why give seats away if you can get a premium for them ? If ANZ is doing smart business on its Japan route, good on them. If Kapitan M doesn't like ANZ - and it seems to sneak through that he has some baggage in this regard - then he has freedom of choice.. (no puns intended)
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Hey Buster, I suggest you ask Newscorp for some money regards Ansett. They are the one's who raped it and then suckered Air NZ at top dollar. Or you could even ask the Oz politicians for some money, as they are the one's who backed out of the open skies deal forcing Air NZ to look at Ansett. Amazing how short some memories are
Evertonian
Yes they did, but they weren't the ones holding the hot potato were they?
So, because Newscorp "sucked" ANZ in, they bear no responsibility. Is that law in NZ? And because the politicians in Oz did a backflip & your gutless pollies were impotent to do anything about it, then that's AN's fault too?
Unbelievable!
Have a nice day at work.
So, because Newscorp "sucked" ANZ in, they bear no responsibility. Is that law in NZ? And because the politicians in Oz did a backflip & your gutless pollies were impotent to do anything about it, then that's AN's fault too?
Unbelievable!
Have a nice day at work.
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Why are we still carrying on with this Ansett Crap 2yrs on?
I was at Compass 1 & 2 and ten years on we still haven't been paid everything that we were owed.Ansett is dead and gone get over it and move ahead like the staff at compass did, they to believed that they had a good airline and stood behind them. They moved onto other jobs and got on with there lives it's about time some other tried the same.
I was at Compass 1 & 2 and ten years on we still haven't been paid everything that we were owed.Ansett is dead and gone get over it and move ahead like the staff at compass did, they to believed that they had a good airline and stood behind them. They moved onto other jobs and got on with there lives it's about time some other tried the same.
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Kapitan,
You stick to the driving old chap and leave the experts to do the pricing. Your analysis is exactly why pilots should not run airlines as it's a sure way to go under before you know it.
Please don't be offended - it.s yhe truth.
As TJ would say. 'oo roo.
You stick to the driving old chap and leave the experts to do the pricing. Your analysis is exactly why pilots should not run airlines as it's a sure way to go under before you know it.
Please don't be offended - it.s yhe truth.
As TJ would say. 'oo roo.
Evertonian
Ooops! Sorry, didn't realise I had to wait 10 years before I was eligible to complain!
Well, just like Compass staff, most people have gotten on with their lives, thank you for asking. However, I know of at least one Compass 1&2 staff member that hasn't been able to hold down a regular job since it collapsed. Don't make the mistake of assuming that everyone has the ability to just get on with their lives!
My beef is the fact that a parent company can just let a subsiduary collapse & virtually walk away without accepting any responsibility. Blaming Newscorp or the Australian Govt. for their actions can only carry so much weight.
All care, no responsibilty.....ANZ
Well, just like Compass staff, most people have gotten on with their lives, thank you for asking. However, I know of at least one Compass 1&2 staff member that hasn't been able to hold down a regular job since it collapsed. Don't make the mistake of assuming that everyone has the ability to just get on with their lives!
My beef is the fact that a parent company can just let a subsiduary collapse & virtually walk away without accepting any responsibility. Blaming Newscorp or the Australian Govt. for their actions can only carry so much weight.
All care, no responsibilty.....ANZ
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Buster.
Sorry but I think history will show that ANZ bought a poisoned chalice. if you'll excuse the mixed metaphor. AN was a s weak as water before NZ's outright purchase. With three or four domestic operators - Qantas, Ansett, Impulse and Virgin Blue - in a very small but competitive market, it was odds on the the weaker two would fall, This is what happened. The NZ shareholders are the ones to be asking the really hard uestions, as an employee you are just the hired help with few if any rights.
I know it's tough but it is really time to move on. How many employees of other Oz companies that have gone bust have had Govt support to protect their entitlements. Redundancy pay is paid when a company no longer needs you. When there is no company, why should anyone get redundancy? Don't be like the mob fom 1989. It's over. Finis. Sorry.
Sorry but I think history will show that ANZ bought a poisoned chalice. if you'll excuse the mixed metaphor. AN was a s weak as water before NZ's outright purchase. With three or four domestic operators - Qantas, Ansett, Impulse and Virgin Blue - in a very small but competitive market, it was odds on the the weaker two would fall, This is what happened. The NZ shareholders are the ones to be asking the really hard uestions, as an employee you are just the hired help with few if any rights.
I know it's tough but it is really time to move on. How many employees of other Oz companies that have gone bust have had Govt support to protect their entitlements. Redundancy pay is paid when a company no longer needs you. When there is no company, why should anyone get redundancy? Don't be like the mob fom 1989. It's over. Finis. Sorry.
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ANZ
ANZ! What a proud company. A country that's biggest tourist attraction smells like a fart and a national emblem's a bird that can't fly and an art forger prime minister. It's about time ANZ paid their dues.
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Why is it that some people have to take to ridicule a whole country because of the action of a then private company?
Alot of people in NZ believed that the Goverment should have let Air NZ fight for there own survival,but like the australian govt they could not lose face by having there national carrier go under. And will most likely do anything to ensure that it survives.
We could all trade insults and run down each others countries ,politians,sportspeople,businesses of which each of us has some that probably deserve it but come on I thought we are supposed to be professional people.
Alot of people in NZ believed that the Goverment should have let Air NZ fight for there own survival,but like the australian govt they could not lose face by having there national carrier go under. And will most likely do anything to ensure that it survives.
We could all trade insults and run down each others countries ,politians,sportspeople,businesses of which each of us has some that probably deserve it but come on I thought we are supposed to be professional people.
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
Thread Starter
The source of the prices, C1300 was the internet website of No 1 travel, on of the largest travel companies in Japan - the load factors were, as I said, my own observation.
It's a sad situation when valid, easily proven points are raised - in this case I have stated the Air New Zealand's pricing on the KIX-CHC/AKL sectors are the HIGHEST of all of those offered on this website.
And that the seats in the (old) Air N.Z. 767's are wafer-thin, and one piece (meaning when the seat back is reclined, the seat under your backside also slides). That may be okay for the short domestic sectors, but on a flight of around 10 hours plus, they are damned uncomfortable!
And so nzer, after having tried your national airline 3 times on this route (hoping that the 1st or 2nd time might just have been a one-off), I have done precisely what you advise, and DON'T fly with them.
Air New Zealand has thus LOST 3 customers.....oh yes, my family travels with me as well. I have no "baggage" to "sneak through" wrt Air N.Z. - I have never applied to work for them, and do not agree that it was solely their fault that Ansett collapsed - imo, Abeles and Murdoch were the main culprits there.
I flew with Air New Zealand (as a pax) when they operated DC8's, and was quite impressed by them then.
I don't believe it's any secret that ANZ is struggling, yet appear to be pricing themselves OUT of the market, when one compares the fares other companies charge.
As one who has a vested interest in New Zealand, and who travels there 3 or 4 times each year, I am keen to see the country succeed with revenue raised from the tourist dollar, and that means the national airline needs to present something far better than Air New Zealand currently offers, to grab those first dollars.
Kia Ora.
It's a sad situation when valid, easily proven points are raised - in this case I have stated the Air New Zealand's pricing on the KIX-CHC/AKL sectors are the HIGHEST of all of those offered on this website.
And that the seats in the (old) Air N.Z. 767's are wafer-thin, and one piece (meaning when the seat back is reclined, the seat under your backside also slides). That may be okay for the short domestic sectors, but on a flight of around 10 hours plus, they are damned uncomfortable!
And so nzer, after having tried your national airline 3 times on this route (hoping that the 1st or 2nd time might just have been a one-off), I have done precisely what you advise, and DON'T fly with them.
Air New Zealand has thus LOST 3 customers.....oh yes, my family travels with me as well. I have no "baggage" to "sneak through" wrt Air N.Z. - I have never applied to work for them, and do not agree that it was solely their fault that Ansett collapsed - imo, Abeles and Murdoch were the main culprits there.
I flew with Air New Zealand (as a pax) when they operated DC8's, and was quite impressed by them then.
I don't believe it's any secret that ANZ is struggling, yet appear to be pricing themselves OUT of the market, when one compares the fares other companies charge.
As one who has a vested interest in New Zealand, and who travels there 3 or 4 times each year, I am keen to see the country succeed with revenue raised from the tourist dollar, and that means the national airline needs to present something far better than Air New Zealand currently offers, to grab those first dollars.
Kia Ora.