Doorless A330 in Sydney
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Doorless A330 in Sydney
Can anyone shed some light on an apparent door vs Aerobridge incident on one of the A330S at Sydney this morning ?
Just curious if it did happen and how it happened.
Just curious if it did happen and how it happened.
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from Sydney Airport Message Board:
I was on QF409 SYD MEL 0700 0825 this morning FRI 4th April, 2003 (A330-200). During pushback the aircraft suffered some damage to 2nd passenger door on the left side. The aircraft was at Gate 11 (dual aerobridge)
The aircraft was set for push back prior to doors being set to Auto. Unusually the passenger door was then reopened for additional material to be carried onboard. With the aerobridge still attached the push back commenced and continued for about 5-10 seconds before being halted. The result appeared to be some minor damage to both aircraft and aerobridge.
I am pleased to say there were no injuries to Cabin Crew, Ground Crew or Passengers. The Qantas Cabin crew onboard acted professionally throughout. The Captain advised the flight would be cancelled. Passengers were then transferred onto other flights.
======
G'day Chris
Apparently, Load Control realised the aircraft was out of trim, and asked for the door to be reopened by the ground staff (presume so they could give the crew the new loadsheet... although, having said that, wouldnt they normally be updated via ACARS?). I guess the Tech crew were unaware, and commenced pushback. Whoops!
Regards
Luke/PER
==============================================
I was on QF409 SYD MEL 0700 0825 this morning FRI 4th April, 2003 (A330-200). During pushback the aircraft suffered some damage to 2nd passenger door on the left side. The aircraft was at Gate 11 (dual aerobridge)
The aircraft was set for push back prior to doors being set to Auto. Unusually the passenger door was then reopened for additional material to be carried onboard. With the aerobridge still attached the push back commenced and continued for about 5-10 seconds before being halted. The result appeared to be some minor damage to both aircraft and aerobridge.
I am pleased to say there were no injuries to Cabin Crew, Ground Crew or Passengers. The Qantas Cabin crew onboard acted professionally throughout. The Captain advised the flight would be cancelled. Passengers were then transferred onto other flights.
======
G'day Chris
Apparently, Load Control realised the aircraft was out of trim, and asked for the door to be reopened by the ground staff (presume so they could give the crew the new loadsheet... although, having said that, wouldnt they normally be updated via ACARS?). I guess the Tech crew were unaware, and commenced pushback. Whoops!
Regards
Luke/PER
==============================================
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......roll up, roll up, roll up to see the door VS the aerobridge
I don't have any idea of what happened in the incident, but I can honestly tell you that if I was a betting fellow and they had a line on it at Star City, I would've put my money on the 330 coming second.
Sorry, I know it's a w@nky post to submit
SixStarAnsett
...well, I'm an idiot, take pity on me............
Sorry, I know it's a w@nky post to submit
SixStarAnsett
...well, I'm an idiot, take pity on me............
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We will be seeing this in CRM courses as a repeat "swiss cheese" model, also some personel in firing line over SOPs.
Captain not informed by ground staff or CSM re door reopened, change in loadsheet trim requiring pax movement after acars final loadsheet, engineer not notice aerobridge reconnected?, and crew not see door light/ eicas msg [not know scarebus system]
The "astronauts" ding their first.
Captain not informed by ground staff or CSM re door reopened, change in loadsheet trim requiring pax movement after acars final loadsheet, engineer not notice aerobridge reconnected?, and crew not see door light/ eicas msg [not know scarebus system]
The "astronauts" ding their first.
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Not familiar with the A330, however IF (I repeat IF) it is the same as the A300-600/A310 the Crew will NOT get a warning. 
On the A300-600/A310, once the Crew initiate MES mode (main engine start) other messages, yes even door messages, are inhibited.
Compass nearly ripped off a door in the same circunstances, and the Crew did not even know until told, why the pushback was stopped. NOT their fault, they had NO indication.
On the A300-600/A310, once the Crew initiate MES mode (main engine start) other messages, yes even door messages, are inhibited.
Compass nearly ripped off a door in the same circunstances, and the Crew did not even know until told, why the pushback was stopped. NOT their fault, they had NO indication.
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Assuming a level of commonality with the rest of the Airbus types, would not the DOORS page come up on ECAM, with the offending door highlighted in amber? Is this inhibited during pushback/start procedures?
Kind regards,
TheNightOwl.
Kind regards,
TheNightOwl.
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They are doing well with the A330s - I saw them practising the tug and towbarless pushback off B23 in MEL the other day.
Heard a toot and looked up to see A330 + 2engineers wandering down the pushback line with tug (and attached towbar) stopped, tooting to get someones attention. Didn't look like a shear pin as all the parts of the bar were there, must remember to attach the towbar to the nose leg next time.
Heard a toot and looked up to see A330 + 2engineers wandering down the pushback line with tug (and attached towbar) stopped, tooting to get someones attention. Didn't look like a shear pin as all the parts of the bar were there, must remember to attach the towbar to the nose leg next time.
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TNO,
As I said I am NOT familiar with the A330, also NOT the A340 or A320 series.
However, trust me
, that is definitely how it is on the A300-600 and A310.
Once the Crew go to MES, all other warnings except those relating to the engine start are inhibited. You could open every door on the Aircraft, and even deploy the slides, the Crew will NOT know until they finish the engine start, then they would get a few messages.
That is how Airbus designed the Aircraft, when queried about the incident at Compass, Airbus said "why would anyone be silly enough to open a door during pushback?".
Best regards,
airsupport.
As I said I am NOT familiar with the A330, also NOT the A340 or A320 series.
However, trust me
, that is definitely how it is on the A300-600 and A310. Once the Crew go to MES, all other warnings except those relating to the engine start are inhibited. You could open every door on the Aircraft, and even deploy the slides, the Crew will NOT know until they finish the engine start, then they would get a few messages.
That is how Airbus designed the Aircraft, when queried about the incident at Compass, Airbus said "why would anyone be silly enough to open a door during pushback?".
Best regards,
airsupport.
"Cockpit to Ground - Doors off at time 15!"
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Hey guys thats nothing!!
Recently flew back to Oz on a CX A340 and reported a 'flapping' sound I couldn't identify to the crew.
They couldnt (or wouldnt) confirm the cause.
Sitting down towards the rear the noise became quite obvious at slow speeds.
Turned out a slide had deployed post despatch and was flapping in the slipstream!!!!!!
Now call me a liar but its true and was reported by the crew to the authorities according to my CX contacts.
PS: Not being an Airbus jock I thought their EICAM would report such a thing as it indicates when doors are armed etc.
Recently flew back to Oz on a CX A340 and reported a 'flapping' sound I couldn't identify to the crew.
They couldnt (or wouldnt) confirm the cause.
Sitting down towards the rear the noise became quite obvious at slow speeds.
Turned out a slide had deployed post despatch and was flapping in the slipstream!!!!!!
Now call me a liar but its true and was reported by the crew to the authorities according to my CX contacts.
PS: Not being an Airbus jock I thought their EICAM would report such a thing as it indicates when doors are armed etc.
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Can anyone advise if it was the first A330 delivered? If so it continues the hoodoo for the #1 unit of a given fleet carried over from TN and thankfully diminishing in seriousness as the years have passed.
Vickers Viscount 700 - VH-TVA - Lost at Mangalore on a training flight attempting 3 engine departure - killing several of TN operational staff passengering on the trial. Hull loss before entering service.
Fokker F27-100 VH-TFB - Lost off Mackay with all on board including a school group - allegedly bounceback off cloud cover onto a flat sea of the runway lights in very unuaual weather conditions - will never be known thoug. TFB was first delivered as TFA was being retrofitted with weather radar nose cone.
Boeing 727-76 - VH-TJA - Removed 8 feet from the vertical stabiliser of a CPA DC8 at Mascot on departure. Operating skipper was Jimmy James. Boeing experts came to Australia and inspected all flight data. The aeroplane had no way of getting airborne according to rhem, but Jimmy did it and returned safely to Sydney with $250,000 damage to the nose structure.
Airbus A300-B4 - VH-TAA - Aeroplane was being used for ground staff training at MEL during a pilot strike. Faulty pallet loading equipment ran away from the trainee and a fork lift prong ruptured one of the main airframe spars. I believe this was before it even entered service.
If this is the progression,it seems to be a dying hoodoo. Lets hope this is the case.
Best all
EWL
Vickers Viscount 700 - VH-TVA - Lost at Mangalore on a training flight attempting 3 engine departure - killing several of TN operational staff passengering on the trial. Hull loss before entering service.
Fokker F27-100 VH-TFB - Lost off Mackay with all on board including a school group - allegedly bounceback off cloud cover onto a flat sea of the runway lights in very unuaual weather conditions - will never be known thoug. TFB was first delivered as TFA was being retrofitted with weather radar nose cone.
Boeing 727-76 - VH-TJA - Removed 8 feet from the vertical stabiliser of a CPA DC8 at Mascot on departure. Operating skipper was Jimmy James. Boeing experts came to Australia and inspected all flight data. The aeroplane had no way of getting airborne according to rhem, but Jimmy did it and returned safely to Sydney with $250,000 damage to the nose structure.
Airbus A300-B4 - VH-TAA - Aeroplane was being used for ground staff training at MEL during a pilot strike. Faulty pallet loading equipment ran away from the trainee and a fork lift prong ruptured one of the main airframe spars. I believe this was before it even entered service.
If this is the progression,it seems to be a dying hoodoo. Lets hope this is the case.
Best all
EWL
Last edited by Eastwest Loco; 6th Apr 2003 at 18:18.
The Reverend
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Come now bulkhead, a slide deployed post despatch? You must all have been wearing oxygen masks all the way to Oz. I think you'll find the flapping sound was a door safety strap that got caught outside the door.
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For those not qualified on 320/330/340. The manufacturers SOP and checklist requires that doors be checked closed before proceeding to eng start. The "DOORS" page is not inhibited as suggested but is replaced by the "ENG" page when "IGN START" is selected. To start pushback without checking doors closed is a breakdown in cockpit procedures. Maybe QF will need to look at their procedures. Some years ago I observed potentially the same occurence with one of their 747's departing Singapore. Fortunately on that occasion the bridge was retracted.
As for the comment from "bulkhead" about flying with a slide deployed - I think not. The ECAM in the cockpit would be making all sorts of noises etc. The PIMs in the cabin will also be giving indications and besides with a slide deployed the door will not close. Therefore, I will call you "liar" as you seem to be demanding.
Have a nice day
As for the comment from "bulkhead" about flying with a slide deployed - I think not. The ECAM in the cockpit would be making all sorts of noises etc. The PIMs in the cabin will also be giving indications and besides with a slide deployed the door will not close. Therefore, I will call you "liar" as you seem to be demanding.
Have a nice day
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I do believe Cathay did have a slide deploy recently in flight. It was on the new A340-600 which has the escape slide for the overwing exit built into the wing not the door. This has somehow been faulty and deployed automatically.
A passenger did bring a banging sound to the attention of the flight crew. I do believe the Second officer went back to look and could also hear the noise. Later inspection from the crew showed that the slide had been ripped off.
A passenger did bring a banging sound to the attention of the flight crew. I do believe the Second officer went back to look and could also hear the noise. Later inspection from the crew showed that the slide had been ripped off.
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As a matter of fact, there have been some incidents on the A340-600 where the overwing slide assembly has separated from the aircraft in-flight. My understanding is that these slides are not attached to the overwing door, but are contained in an exterior compartment near the aft edge of each wing. Somehow or other, the whole lot departed the aircraft in-flight.
Oops, B787 beat me to it!
Oops, B787 beat me to it!
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Rabbit,
IF you mean what I said?
I did say I was NOT familiar with the A330, A340 or A320.
I assure you the A300-600 and A310 are as I stated. I thought maybe they used the same logic on the others.
The incident at Compass, where a door was nearly ripped off, came about because after all the doors were closed, and bridge was moving away, Aircraft was cleared to pushback. After checking door indications, the Crew initaited engine start, which INHIBITS door indications, and just about every indication unless it relates to engine start. The traffic person then reached over and opened the door again, luckily the pushback was stopped just in time, however the Crew were not even aware of the problem until told.
Airbus later confirmed this was as designed. As the engines are normally started on the ground, they purposely inhibit all other warnings during start.
It is similar to lots of other Aircraft where many indications are inhibited during takeoff, until the Aircraft reaches 100 or 200 feet altitude.
I am surprised that the A330 and A340 are not similar to the A300-600/A310, but I will take your word for it if you are familiar with these Aircraft.
Best regards,
airsupport.
IF you mean what I said?
I did say I was NOT familiar with the A330, A340 or A320.
I assure you the A300-600 and A310 are as I stated. I thought maybe they used the same logic on the others.
The incident at Compass, where a door was nearly ripped off, came about because after all the doors were closed, and bridge was moving away, Aircraft was cleared to pushback. After checking door indications, the Crew initaited engine start, which INHIBITS door indications, and just about every indication unless it relates to engine start. The traffic person then reached over and opened the door again, luckily the pushback was stopped just in time, however the Crew were not even aware of the problem until told.
Airbus later confirmed this was as designed. As the engines are normally started on the ground, they purposely inhibit all other warnings during start.
It is similar to lots of other Aircraft where many indications are inhibited during takeoff, until the Aircraft reaches 100 or 200 feet altitude.
I am surprised that the A330 and A340 are not similar to the A300-600/A310, but I will take your word for it if you are familiar with these Aircraft.
Best regards,
airsupport.