AUSTRALIAN AIRLINES - Beware the Trojan Horse
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Frank
I have to say it again but you really are a small minded person. You don't know me, so you have no idea what I am like. I too know many people that lost there jobs in ansett and kendells. A family member of mine had to sell his house, he now lives with his wife and two kids with his parents, still unable to find another job. So I have seen how much a big company (aviaiton or not) going down effects people, just like you've experienced, I feel for you, really. But wishing the same fate on others, no matter how much you hate the company they work for is cruel hearted and pathetic. I'm sure there are some arrogant ppl working for the said company, but name one company where EVERY employee is a perfect.
So this time try to think up a meaningful comeback franky rather than to keep calling me a ******** or bagging me out in some other way. - For that I call you small minded.
I have to say it again but you really are a small minded person. You don't know me, so you have no idea what I am like. I too know many people that lost there jobs in ansett and kendells. A family member of mine had to sell his house, he now lives with his wife and two kids with his parents, still unable to find another job. So I have seen how much a big company (aviaiton or not) going down effects people, just like you've experienced, I feel for you, really. But wishing the same fate on others, no matter how much you hate the company they work for is cruel hearted and pathetic. I'm sure there are some arrogant ppl working for the said company, but name one company where EVERY employee is a perfect.
So this time try to think up a meaningful comeback franky rather than to keep calling me a ******** or bagging me out in some other way. - For that I call you small minded.
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Reds under the bed?
Isn't it possible the 'conspiracy" theories are a bit overdone here? Isn't it just possible that QF is fdoing the inteligent thing, and setting up a low cost structure arm (a la freedomair to ANZ) to block, premptively, a Virgin push into low cost Intl ops ex Australia - might this not in fact be GOOD for QF pilots and employees? An airline's management has a duty to maximise income and return on investmnent, pure and simple, it is not charged with providing one employee group with particular set of conditions of employment to the exclusion of all else. (Runs to bunker to hide)
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ftrplt
I have to say I agree with your well argued and reasoned response.
Analogies to children in mines and chimney sweeping show an ignorance of the financial realities facing the workforce today.
People who wish to bury their heads in the sand and pretend we are in industrial yesteryear need to have a good look at what is taking place around us.
It seems to me it is much better to work with the system than to constantly fight it and lose everything.
Keep it up.
I have to say I agree with your well argued and reasoned response.
Analogies to children in mines and chimney sweeping show an ignorance of the financial realities facing the workforce today.
People who wish to bury their heads in the sand and pretend we are in industrial yesteryear need to have a good look at what is taking place around us.
It seems to me it is much better to work with the system than to constantly fight it and lose everything.
Keep it up.
Nunc est bibendum
I've been pretty quite on this one whilst considering my thoughts and I'm no closer to clarifying them in my own head so I thought I may as well vent them on the others.
If AO expands into areas not currently operated by QF then it will be a boon for QF pilots. Blind freddy knew (and I told the Chief Pilot of AO in April 2002 when I flew with him) that AO would be flying SYD or MEL- BLI within twelve months of start up so this is no surprise. QF has maintained for years that BLI, with it's high rate of frequent flyers rewards points and minimal business travel was losing money (or close to it) since QF first began flying there so in this case, their expansion to this port is not unexpected- at least not by any forward thinking QF pilot. If they spread their wings to Saigon (sorry, I can't spell the 'new' name), KL, Shanghai (which I think they've annouced), Seol, Bangkok (and beyond) then it will add to EXTRA commands for QF pilots. Sure, it won't be at the current rates but it beats the flying having gone to others completely. At least now we have the choice of going or not. I will admit that if they continue to take our international flying though it will be the very trojan horse with which people talk. Again though, at least QF pilots will still have jobs as opposed to just not being required. I'm a fair way up the list now so we are talking about halving the current list before the 'last on, first off' rule gets to me but that doesn't stop me from being concerned about future job propects.
As to the cost of the airline, I'm a little dissappointed in this area. They wanted a 20% reduction but on pay rates alone I reckon we've given them about 28%. QF pilots get about 1100 credit hours for about 800 stick. At the same pay rate, AO get 800 hours for 800 stick. 72% of their mainline bretheren. Tack on the savings made in 'other' areas of the LH pilot award (transport, leave, etc) then it starts to add toward a 30%+ saving for QF. I'd LOVE to be proven wrong on my figures there (especially considering my first command could well be a 'southern base' in a couple of years) but thats the way I read the agreement.
I'm not sure how much the 'duplication of managers' plays in this regard. I'd actually like to see the AO way of doing things slide across to QF. Less chiefs and more indians would be a good thing I'd think.
So overall where do I stand? Dunno. It may be a good thing for us, it may not. It may well be a bit each way. Time will tell. The only thing that ANYONE can be sure about is that NONE of us KNOW where this little ride is taking us- and that probably includes the powers that be!
If AO expands into areas not currently operated by QF then it will be a boon for QF pilots. Blind freddy knew (and I told the Chief Pilot of AO in April 2002 when I flew with him) that AO would be flying SYD or MEL- BLI within twelve months of start up so this is no surprise. QF has maintained for years that BLI, with it's high rate of frequent flyers rewards points and minimal business travel was losing money (or close to it) since QF first began flying there so in this case, their expansion to this port is not unexpected- at least not by any forward thinking QF pilot. If they spread their wings to Saigon (sorry, I can't spell the 'new' name), KL, Shanghai (which I think they've annouced), Seol, Bangkok (and beyond) then it will add to EXTRA commands for QF pilots. Sure, it won't be at the current rates but it beats the flying having gone to others completely. At least now we have the choice of going or not. I will admit that if they continue to take our international flying though it will be the very trojan horse with which people talk. Again though, at least QF pilots will still have jobs as opposed to just not being required. I'm a fair way up the list now so we are talking about halving the current list before the 'last on, first off' rule gets to me but that doesn't stop me from being concerned about future job propects.
As to the cost of the airline, I'm a little dissappointed in this area. They wanted a 20% reduction but on pay rates alone I reckon we've given them about 28%. QF pilots get about 1100 credit hours for about 800 stick. At the same pay rate, AO get 800 hours for 800 stick. 72% of their mainline bretheren. Tack on the savings made in 'other' areas of the LH pilot award (transport, leave, etc) then it starts to add toward a 30%+ saving for QF. I'd LOVE to be proven wrong on my figures there (especially considering my first command could well be a 'southern base' in a couple of years) but thats the way I read the agreement.
I'm not sure how much the 'duplication of managers' plays in this regard. I'd actually like to see the AO way of doing things slide across to QF. Less chiefs and more indians would be a good thing I'd think.
So overall where do I stand? Dunno. It may be a good thing for us, it may not. It may well be a bit each way. Time will tell. The only thing that ANYONE can be sure about is that NONE of us KNOW where this little ride is taking us- and that probably includes the powers that be!
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
Even bigger savings will result WHEN Australian replace the 767`s and leave the crews on existing pay rates.
Not having a dig at you at all, Keg, however your statement, "Sure, it won't be at the current rates but it beats the flying having gone to others completely. At least now we have the choice of going or not. I will admit that if they continue to take our international flying though it will be the very trojan horse with which people talk." encapsulates your managements`hopes that this is the decision the QF pilots would be forced into, because of AIPA`s inability to resolve this issue from the outset.
My prediction is that, Australian Airlines is going to make SEVERE inroads into current QANTAS pilots` conditions and their numbers within the next 3 to 5 years.
Unless AIPA with the support of the pilots, make some HARD decisions now.
Not having a dig at you at all, Keg, however your statement, "Sure, it won't be at the current rates but it beats the flying having gone to others completely. At least now we have the choice of going or not. I will admit that if they continue to take our international flying though it will be the very trojan horse with which people talk." encapsulates your managements`hopes that this is the decision the QF pilots would be forced into, because of AIPA`s inability to resolve this issue from the outset.
My prediction is that, Australian Airlines is going to make SEVERE inroads into current QANTAS pilots` conditions and their numbers within the next 3 to 5 years.
Unless AIPA with the support of the pilots, make some HARD decisions now.
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Kaptin M
Isnt this just the continuation of what has been happening for the last 15 years?
The only one to say it out loud was the bow-tied weasel responsible for 2 major morale slumps at Australian and subsequently Qantas domestic.
Staff of any form are a liability, and if one can outsource or detach them from the core company, so much the better.
When Wally da *** knifed us in the back at TN WNY (and DPO ABX and NTL) it was the beginning of the end. Regionals and code share is the way they want it - feed the mainline with contract labour at substantially reduced labour costs.
The runs AO is being slid in on are the lower yield ops outbound, but excellent inbound yield such as HNL (a dog for a 743 in 2 class or a 744 in 3 class) - Japanese ports - all y class demand generally - DPS - low yield y - and so on.
Populate the ports and protect the runs from interlopers, but keep the costs down.
Interesting indeed - but certainly nothing new.
Best
EWL
Isnt this just the continuation of what has been happening for the last 15 years?
The only one to say it out loud was the bow-tied weasel responsible for 2 major morale slumps at Australian and subsequently Qantas domestic.
Staff of any form are a liability, and if one can outsource or detach them from the core company, so much the better.
When Wally da *** knifed us in the back at TN WNY (and DPO ABX and NTL) it was the beginning of the end. Regionals and code share is the way they want it - feed the mainline with contract labour at substantially reduced labour costs.
The runs AO is being slid in on are the lower yield ops outbound, but excellent inbound yield such as HNL (a dog for a 743 in 2 class or a 744 in 3 class) - Japanese ports - all y class demand generally - DPS - low yield y - and so on.
Populate the ports and protect the runs from interlopers, but keep the costs down.
Interesting indeed - but certainly nothing new.
Best
EWL
Nunc est bibendum
Actually I agree Kap (but only if AO expands to take all the current 767 long haul flying) that it will indeed be the Trojan horse. I'm not sure what options were available to AIPA (IE, me and the rest of the QF pilot group) at the time to tell QF to 'rack off' and take thier low cost start up with them. QF would have pressed ahead and utilised former AN crew (some of whom actually offered to undercut the rates that AIPA and AO negotiated anyway) and we would have lost the flying anyway and any future opportunities that may have come with it.
Not sure what 'legal' avenues existed to avoid it. Sure, there are lots of 'other' means to pressure the company but there only has to be one email, one phone call to the wrong person, etc, etc and then the pilot group as a whole is liable for damages.
Not trying to be belligerent but what options did AIPA have but to negotiate the best deal possible for QF crew?
Not sure what 'legal' avenues existed to avoid it. Sure, there are lots of 'other' means to pressure the company but there only has to be one email, one phone call to the wrong person, etc, etc and then the pilot group as a whole is liable for damages.
Not trying to be belligerent but what options did AIPA have but to negotiate the best deal possible for QF crew?
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Kaptin M.
Maybe you need to go and buy a Sony Playstation or Xbox.They really are good fun,trust me.After 20 years in the airline industry I have never even come close to meeting someone like yourself.Ihope you and I stay at separate companies.Kaptin M,why are you so angry.
You should look like this
I do..
Maybe you need to go and buy a Sony Playstation or Xbox.They really are good fun,trust me.After 20 years in the airline industry I have never even come close to meeting someone like yourself.Ihope you and I stay at separate companies.Kaptin M,why are you so angry.
You should look like this I do..
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Dear Keg, I'm afraid that your own comments confirm Kaptin M's position. You're half way up the "list" so therefore 'I'm alright Jack'.This is the attitude that helps QF bosses. They know that the AIPA is a joke that they will always get past because it is dominated by long haul Captains. Let's take the recent fiasco of loss of licence insurance. The AIPA came up with a very good new plan that was sustainable and would save the pilots millions a year on premiums. It was all set to start but about 20 or so old long haul Captains had a bitch about it and the plan is scrapped.What a democracy !So now a bunch of old sick men can scam 5000 or more a month at everyone elses expense and the other 2200 pilots can go jump. Every thing the AIPA do only effects the junior crew when conditions deteriorate. You've got you eyes so keenly set on your pending command that it disturbs me when you talk of a "rule" of last on first off.No such rule exists.Discriminatory.The court cases will be interesting.
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Well of course it is a difficult situation now. As Walter says, there is not much sympathy for lesser mortals in the senior 744 crew. These guys by and large have had the Rolls Royce run of a career. No major dramas and if they were a cadet even had their training paid for by QF. They were in the right place at the right time. Half their luck.
Since 89 the strength and position of the professional pilot in Australia has been almost completely eroded to the level of beggar and the companies have been able to capitalise on this union weakness to get what they want.
Pre the magic year the Australian Airlines negotiation would probably have gone thus.
Company: We want to set up a low cost operation.
Union: Ok, we will tell you what we will accept.
Company: OK
Roll forward to now..
Company: We are setting up a low cost operation and this is the deal. Take it or leave it.
Union: OK, we'll take it.
So whats the answer? I don't know. We are our own worst enemy.The wannabes will work for zip, in the event of industrial action scabs breed like flies, the employers are the new militants and within each company the pilots are divided along party lines.
Time for a beer!
Since 89 the strength and position of the professional pilot in Australia has been almost completely eroded to the level of beggar and the companies have been able to capitalise on this union weakness to get what they want.
Pre the magic year the Australian Airlines negotiation would probably have gone thus.
Company: We want to set up a low cost operation.
Union: Ok, we will tell you what we will accept.
Company: OK
Roll forward to now..
Company: We are setting up a low cost operation and this is the deal. Take it or leave it.
Union: OK, we'll take it.
So whats the answer? I don't know. We are our own worst enemy.The wannabes will work for zip, in the event of industrial action scabs breed like flies, the employers are the new militants and within each company the pilots are divided along party lines.
Time for a beer!
so what has to done by the current crews to stop this erosion of conditions? Please go ahead, as I'm all ears...
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
Evacuate, if you feel that you want to get into a p!55!ng competiton ("After 20 years in the airline industry..") , then you've hit me in the right mood at the right time, son.
You'll have to be in the industry another 12 years before you equal my time here.
I'm not angry - puzzled, would probably be a more apt term, as to WHY the airline industry has been allowed to be steered in the direction it has.
In fact, the answer is obvious. Management greed.
I came from an era when management and unions worked hand in hand to achieve what was probably an ideal level for almost ALL employees. Eastwest Loco, The Night Owl, Tool Time, Amos and others - although at odds about 1989, will, I believe agree with me that when management were not so bonus performance oriented, each company ran like a well-oiled wheel.
Certainly 1989 was a "watershed" {James Strong) for the pilot workforce - but it also signalled a new era in the way upper management would mercilessly slice ANY areas that gave them a BIG bonus based on annual, or quarterly results, regardless of the long term health of the company! By "long term", I mean 15, 20, 30 years on.
Quite simply, these guys don't figure on being around then, and plan to retire on exhorbitant amounts - the sooner the better.
Unions (and their members), on the other hand, take a longer term view, imho.
And hence my interest in Australian Airlines. I have met Keg (in Christchurch) - he is a (relatively) young guy, who hopes to have a long future in QF, and (he) is quite company orientated and willing to help QF, to try to guarantee his (and his family's) future. I also know quite a number of QF Captains, including one now long retired, who recruited quite a few of you guys.
Australian Airlines is, in my opinion, another vehicle that has been set up (at enormous expense) to further screw the QF pilots ONLY for management gain.
IMO, it will do NOTHING to help grow QANTAS the airline.
Nothing that QANTAS could not have done itself.
AIPA need to "secure" ALL pilot positions now, and in the FUTURE - which may involve some "pain" before much longer, if the likes of Keg hope to realise their dreams.
You'll have to be in the industry another 12 years before you equal my time here.
I'm not angry - puzzled, would probably be a more apt term, as to WHY the airline industry has been allowed to be steered in the direction it has.
In fact, the answer is obvious. Management greed.
I came from an era when management and unions worked hand in hand to achieve what was probably an ideal level for almost ALL employees. Eastwest Loco, The Night Owl, Tool Time, Amos and others - although at odds about 1989, will, I believe agree with me that when management were not so bonus performance oriented, each company ran like a well-oiled wheel.
Certainly 1989 was a "watershed" {James Strong) for the pilot workforce - but it also signalled a new era in the way upper management would mercilessly slice ANY areas that gave them a BIG bonus based on annual, or quarterly results, regardless of the long term health of the company! By "long term", I mean 15, 20, 30 years on.
Quite simply, these guys don't figure on being around then, and plan to retire on exhorbitant amounts - the sooner the better.
Unions (and their members), on the other hand, take a longer term view, imho.
And hence my interest in Australian Airlines. I have met Keg (in Christchurch) - he is a (relatively) young guy, who hopes to have a long future in QF, and (he) is quite company orientated and willing to help QF, to try to guarantee his (and his family's) future. I also know quite a number of QF Captains, including one now long retired, who recruited quite a few of you guys.
Australian Airlines is, in my opinion, another vehicle that has been set up (at enormous expense) to further screw the QF pilots ONLY for management gain.
IMO, it will do NOTHING to help grow QANTAS the airline.
Nothing that QANTAS could not have done itself.
AIPA need to "secure" ALL pilot positions now, and in the FUTURE - which may involve some "pain" before much longer, if the likes of Keg hope to realise their dreams.
Last edited by Kaptin M; 13th Mar 2003 at 19:03.
Nunc est bibendum
Walter, you've been around this forum for a while now (according to your registration date anyway) so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.
My position is NOT 'I'm all right jack as 1300 of you guys will go before it gets to me'. My position is that 'I'm probably pretty safe in the short to medium term but ANY redundancy of QF pilots concerns me- not because I'm worried about my own job but because these guys are family'. I'm also concerned that others won't get to experience life as a QANTAS pilot into the future. It's a heritage that goes back a long way and to be employed by the company who counted so many esteemed airmen amongst the ranks is a humbling experience. I'd like every pilot possible to experience that. Now and well into the future.
So take a pot shot if you must. I'll admit that my comments can be read as though I'm concerned about my job and not fussed by the 1300 or so they have to go through to get to me. To clarify that once and for all, I'm concerned about the day that ANY QF driver gets 'furloughed' (to coin the US phrase!). Alas, I've stuck my head out of the trench so often that they probably wouldn't have me back!
I find it a source as constant irony that most on here (and a whole bunch of people in QF) consider me a 'company' man and yet I'd bet a kidney that certain aspects of 'the company' thinks I'm a rat bag troublemaker who cares nought for the company. It's the 'certain aspects' that I don't care too much for, the company I love and loathe at the same time.
Thanks for the gee up Kap. I haven't thought myself young for ages. Nice to know that some still think I am (even if it is 'relatively' so!)
I think so far that AIPA has done pretty well 'securing' our futures. We may have different perceptions on what the word 'secure' means but I KNOW that I'm a lot better off at least having the opportunity of crewing Australian than had it gone to out of work Ansett pilots and have it decimate our futures from underneath.
My position is NOT 'I'm all right jack as 1300 of you guys will go before it gets to me'. My position is that 'I'm probably pretty safe in the short to medium term but ANY redundancy of QF pilots concerns me- not because I'm worried about my own job but because these guys are family'. I'm also concerned that others won't get to experience life as a QANTAS pilot into the future. It's a heritage that goes back a long way and to be employed by the company who counted so many esteemed airmen amongst the ranks is a humbling experience. I'd like every pilot possible to experience that. Now and well into the future.
So take a pot shot if you must. I'll admit that my comments can be read as though I'm concerned about my job and not fussed by the 1300 or so they have to go through to get to me. To clarify that once and for all, I'm concerned about the day that ANY QF driver gets 'furloughed' (to coin the US phrase!). Alas, I've stuck my head out of the trench so often that they probably wouldn't have me back!
I find it a source as constant irony that most on here (and a whole bunch of people in QF) consider me a 'company' man and yet I'd bet a kidney that certain aspects of 'the company' thinks I'm a rat bag troublemaker who cares nought for the company. It's the 'certain aspects' that I don't care too much for, the company I love and loathe at the same time.
Thanks for the gee up Kap. I haven't thought myself young for ages. Nice to know that some still think I am (even if it is 'relatively' so!)
I think so far that AIPA has done pretty well 'securing' our futures. We may have different perceptions on what the word 'secure' means but I KNOW that I'm a lot better off at least having the opportunity of crewing Australian than had it gone to out of work Ansett pilots and have it decimate our futures from underneath.
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The reality is that management can do what ever they want because the only weapon in the workers armoury is strike action. We all know that pilots striking is not going to happen. Whether we accept it or not pilots are just like any other wage and salary earner and they have slowly been hammered into submission across all areas of the workforce.
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
"Whether we accept it or not pilots are just like any other wage and salary earner.."
Bzzzzzzzz.....WRONG.
Some people would like you to believe that - and that's the sword upon which Ansett, East-West, IPEC, and Australian (aka TAA) perished by espousing that.
Sorry to disagree again, pFO. As a matter of opinion, strike action is one of only many tactics available to a now more industrial-savvy pilot workforce.
"Safety first", and Health have never been more important than in today's fast moving world.
Bzzzzzzzz.....WRONG.
Some people would like you to believe that - and that's the sword upon which Ansett, East-West, IPEC, and Australian (aka TAA) perished by espousing that.
The reality is that management can do what ever they want because the only weapon in the workers armoury is strike action.
"Safety first", and Health have never been more important than in today's fast moving world.
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As a QF driver I also agree with Keg on this one!
IMO it is better to have QF drivers in the seats than run the risk of the work going outside mainline - even if the conditions are relatively reduced.
Kaptin M - the thing about picking a fight with QF management is that its all in the timing. While George W has all his hardware parked around Iraq, any industrial action is a lost cause. If we waged industrial war at a time when the airline industry could go badly pear-shaped as soon as the bombs fall, it would be suicide. We would be crucified in the press and it would all be over. I think that the media is where the '89 battle was lost. The public at large still feel that we are all on million-dollar salaries and would not understand why industrial action was being carried out at such a sensitive time.
So I feel that the EBA will be settled soon and Australian Airlines will go on. No denying that the pilot body are not really happy at the moment being offered 3% while management get a 50% bonus - I think the turnout at the Special AIPA meeting would have reinforced that point. Let's save the fight for a time when we might win!
IMO it is better to have QF drivers in the seats than run the risk of the work going outside mainline - even if the conditions are relatively reduced.
Kaptin M - the thing about picking a fight with QF management is that its all in the timing. While George W has all his hardware parked around Iraq, any industrial action is a lost cause. If we waged industrial war at a time when the airline industry could go badly pear-shaped as soon as the bombs fall, it would be suicide. We would be crucified in the press and it would all be over. I think that the media is where the '89 battle was lost. The public at large still feel that we are all on million-dollar salaries and would not understand why industrial action was being carried out at such a sensitive time.
So I feel that the EBA will be settled soon and Australian Airlines will go on. No denying that the pilot body are not really happy at the moment being offered 3% while management get a 50% bonus - I think the turnout at the Special AIPA meeting would have reinforced that point. Let's save the fight for a time when we might win!
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Keg, I shall return the favour.My real beef is the AIPA, not you. Your position is very reasonable.
A lot of people wonder what the AIPA should do about AO. Their biggest failing was to create a secondment agreement and not a new award and certified agreement. Management can at any time return the pilots to QF and still do whatever they want with AO. I may be wrong but the AIPA has no jurisdiction on employment and conditions at AO and only has a temporary arrangement. So the AIPA has far from secured AO. The AIPA should take a case to court to order that QF and AO be considered one workplace or at least gain respondency to two awards. This would casue a major legal battle that probably only the ACTU could fight. At present wholly owned subsidiaries are run by companies to create smaller and separate work groups that have a weeker bargaining position and cant do sympathy industrial action.
The weakness and 744 dominance of AIPA is demonstrated by the insurance issue and even more so by the issue of DPA which is a complete joke. Management can renege on major issues and the AIPA just will not use the courts. QF are clearly in breach of the workplace relations act and must surely be laughing all the way to the bottom line.
I do not share 3bars view on attacking the company. I recently was advised that the CP is no longer on bonus/performance pay. Unfortunately the DCP IS ON such a system and is in charge of negotiations. It begs the question.
When a company has a record profit it is time for a little of it to go around. The time is now. Dixon's doom and gloom comments are so staged it makes me sick. . Always hear that rubbish around EBA time. Profit downgrade talks will come next and then next year when he announces results better than the dodgy revised figures he'll take all the credit and give none oof it to staff because they will have panicked and locked into a multi year EBA that gives them less than CPI and there will be nothing anyone can do about it. That gives me another idea. The AIPA should only talk on a one year EBA and use the Iraq thing as the reason.
A lot of people wonder what the AIPA should do about AO. Their biggest failing was to create a secondment agreement and not a new award and certified agreement. Management can at any time return the pilots to QF and still do whatever they want with AO. I may be wrong but the AIPA has no jurisdiction on employment and conditions at AO and only has a temporary arrangement. So the AIPA has far from secured AO. The AIPA should take a case to court to order that QF and AO be considered one workplace or at least gain respondency to two awards. This would casue a major legal battle that probably only the ACTU could fight. At present wholly owned subsidiaries are run by companies to create smaller and separate work groups that have a weeker bargaining position and cant do sympathy industrial action.
The weakness and 744 dominance of AIPA is demonstrated by the insurance issue and even more so by the issue of DPA which is a complete joke. Management can renege on major issues and the AIPA just will not use the courts. QF are clearly in breach of the workplace relations act and must surely be laughing all the way to the bottom line.
I do not share 3bars view on attacking the company. I recently was advised that the CP is no longer on bonus/performance pay. Unfortunately the DCP IS ON such a system and is in charge of negotiations. It begs the question.
When a company has a record profit it is time for a little of it to go around. The time is now. Dixon's doom and gloom comments are so staged it makes me sick.
. Always hear that rubbish around EBA time. Profit downgrade talks will come next and then next year when he announces results better than the dodgy revised figures he'll take all the credit and give none oof it to staff because they will have panicked and locked into a multi year EBA that gives them less than CPI and there will be nothing anyone can do about it. That gives me another idea. The AIPA should only talk on a one year EBA and use the Iraq thing as the reason.