QF Flight Attendants Strike?
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Ferris
Firstly dealing with the public is what they are paid to do, if that is viewed as a repulsive task or an "inconvenience" then they are in the wrong job. Judging by the service quality there are alot of them in the wrong job.
Secondly how do passengers get drunk ? either the cabin crew have failed their duty by allowing an intoxicated person to board the aircraft or they have supplied sufficient alcohol to a passenger to cause that effect... either way if this situation occurs cabin crew have failed their duty.
Thirdly QF management are offering 6% they want 13%, get real they are well over paid as it is.
Firstly dealing with the public is what they are paid to do, if that is viewed as a repulsive task or an "inconvenience" then they are in the wrong job. Judging by the service quality there are alot of them in the wrong job.
Secondly how do passengers get drunk ? either the cabin crew have failed their duty by allowing an intoxicated person to board the aircraft or they have supplied sufficient alcohol to a passenger to cause that effect... either way if this situation occurs cabin crew have failed their duty.
Thirdly QF management are offering 6% they want 13%, get real they are well over paid as it is.
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Thanks Apollo 4 for making my point. Missing the point, that is.
The dispute is about a broken agreement. It doesn't matter what is offered; the bosses are just trying to 'pinch' something. It is the attitude displayed here that allows such things to even be contemplated.
Agreed dealing with the public is what F/A's do, and are paid to do etc. My point was that this seems to be taken as some petty, meaningless, mindless endevour. Try it some time. People don't have to be drunk to be insufferable, merely an example. If you want to get into who is worth what- that's a whole seperate issue. Merely pointing out that the pilot group is eternally wrestling with that one (and will continue to do so in the {near}future- under what circumstances do you want your IRs to proceed? Litanies of broken agreements etc?).
Principles, or lack of them. How do YOU want to be treated?
The dispute is about a broken agreement. It doesn't matter what is offered; the bosses are just trying to 'pinch' something. It is the attitude displayed here that allows such things to even be contemplated.
Agreed dealing with the public is what F/A's do, and are paid to do etc. My point was that this seems to be taken as some petty, meaningless, mindless endevour. Try it some time. People don't have to be drunk to be insufferable, merely an example. If you want to get into who is worth what- that's a whole seperate issue. Merely pointing out that the pilot group is eternally wrestling with that one (and will continue to do so in the {near}future- under what circumstances do you want your IRs to proceed? Litanies of broken agreements etc?).
Principles, or lack of them. How do YOU want to be treated?
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ferris -
SPOT ON! Especially about the glass houses!
QF are not keeping their end of a deal that was cut (and made in writing) with the FAAA. It isn't about who gets paid what and how much they do (or don't) smile! Plain and simple really.
Also can I add that FAs never discuss what pilots get paid and NEVER enter into discussion about whether it is too much! Come on guys....
SPOT ON! Especially about the glass houses!
QF are not keeping their end of a deal that was cut (and made in writing) with the FAAA. It isn't about who gets paid what and how much they do (or don't) smile! Plain and simple really.
Also can I add that FAs never discuss what pilots get paid and NEVER enter into discussion about whether it is too much! Come on guys....
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Aww cummon ditzyboi.....
i've been in bars where what i would classify as decent FA's have busted out the arguement that the captain should shout drinks for the crew 'cause..... wait for it.................."he earns more than us" ....two different professions... one has ~$200k of training, the other is a workforce without qualification..... except EPs of course.
Qf FAs are the highest paid in the world!!!!
The 767 Pilots are the Lowest paid in the World!!!
Enough of these arguments....
Let's all go for the best conditions for ALL OF US.... UNITED WE STAND... DIVIDED WE FALL!!!
i've been in bars where what i would classify as decent FA's have busted out the arguement that the captain should shout drinks for the crew 'cause..... wait for it.................."he earns more than us" ....two different professions... one has ~$200k of training, the other is a workforce without qualification..... except EPs of course.
Qf FAs are the highest paid in the world!!!!
The 767 Pilots are the Lowest paid in the World!!!
Enough of these arguments....
Let's all go for the best conditions for ALL OF US.... UNITED WE STAND... DIVIDED WE FALL!!!
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Turbo -
But the "you guys earn more than us" line is the only way us male FAs can get a drink out of the Techies!
Not like the girls, who don't even have to try. They get drinks without having to ask 
Oh and I have to disagree about FAs not having qualifications. After 2.5 years I am 'qualified' in a range of skills I consider to be valuable to the success of QF.
Smiling at 0515 (yes I am one of the ones that smiles!)
Being happy at 0515
Mind reading
Taking abuse
Smiling whilst taking abuse
Smiling whilst collecting a cup containing nail clippings and spit in it and then saying "Thankyou" for the privilige!
Undoing the wrongs of travel agents, other airlines, ground staff, family......
Finding space for a motor home in the overhead lockers
Lifting said motor home and then helping the pax to the gate with it on arrival
Looking proud to be serving 'the Box'
Being able to 'sign' to someone in the galley that we need more cups, napkins, nuts, red wine, diet coke and stirrers for the cart
Doing a hot meal with bar and hot drinks on a 40 minute sector (thank God that's over!)
Breaking up fights between pax (or crew and pax!)
Moving pax so the party of 11 that checked in at -10mins can sit together
Acknowledging to a click of the fingers or after being called "rubbish man"
Copping abuse about food I had nothing to do with preparing
Copping abuse about the weather at the destination airport
Being at the beck and call of every pax on every flight every day
Receiving no thanks for giving up my crew meal to a pax who doesn't like fruit cake
Being able to serve 110 pax breakfast on a flight only catered for 90
Changing nappies
Playing baby sitter
Always making the rubbish fit into the bins
Being able to say "Have a good afternoon..." to someone who has just called me every name under the sun for whatever reason
Accepting being sole reason for someone's bad day (after being onboard for two mins!)
Turning said pax around
Being competent in all aspects of first aid
Wiping vomit off tray tables and sidewalls (while smiling and saying thank you!)
Pretending to care about some total stranger's problem and then have to fix it
At all times (in case of emergency): knowing exactly what to do, when to do it, what everyone else will be doing and what to do if the first thing doesn't work - all without thinking....
Still smiling whilst doing all of this after working 6 days and 65 hours, away from home. AND BEING WILLING TO DO IT ALL OVER AGAIN!
The majority of FAs are worth every cent that they are paid. The same can be said for other customer contact staff too! And when an EBA is up I think that the majority of FAs can rightly ask for more.
Yes there are some FAs who really shouldn't be in the job for whatever reason. Yes there are some FAs who are only in the job for the money. I have witnessed some QF FAs (and from other airlines too) that are not worth the ground they walk on. In a way though these FAs lose out more than anyone. Coz they all go home to an empty house and feel miserable about the lack of substance in their lives. Not one of them feels happy about who they are and what they do to contribute to society. They all sit in their homes, alone, and secretly look forward to the next time they go to work. Coz it is the only place where people will give them the time of day.
Lets not slag out the entire FA contingent as we have done.... It is only the minority that some of you refer to. And yes they all drive between their four properties in some fancy car wearing $500 sunglasses and looking ever so glam. But for the reasons I mentioned above it is the rest of us, decent - hard workers, who have the last laugh.
Happy. Positive Energy.....
But the "you guys earn more than us" line is the only way us male FAs can get a drink out of the Techies!
Not like the girls, who don't even have to try. They get drinks without having to ask Oh and I have to disagree about FAs not having qualifications. After 2.5 years I am 'qualified' in a range of skills I consider to be valuable to the success of QF.
Smiling at 0515 (yes I am one of the ones that smiles!)
Being happy at 0515
Mind reading
Taking abuse
Smiling whilst taking abuse
Smiling whilst collecting a cup containing nail clippings and spit in it and then saying "Thankyou" for the privilige!
Undoing the wrongs of travel agents, other airlines, ground staff, family......
Finding space for a motor home in the overhead lockers
Lifting said motor home and then helping the pax to the gate with it on arrival
Looking proud to be serving 'the Box'
Being able to 'sign' to someone in the galley that we need more cups, napkins, nuts, red wine, diet coke and stirrers for the cart
Doing a hot meal with bar and hot drinks on a 40 minute sector (thank God that's over!)
Breaking up fights between pax (or crew and pax!)
Moving pax so the party of 11 that checked in at -10mins can sit together
Acknowledging to a click of the fingers or after being called "rubbish man"
Copping abuse about food I had nothing to do with preparing
Copping abuse about the weather at the destination airport
Being at the beck and call of every pax on every flight every day
Receiving no thanks for giving up my crew meal to a pax who doesn't like fruit cake
Being able to serve 110 pax breakfast on a flight only catered for 90
Changing nappies
Playing baby sitter
Always making the rubbish fit into the bins
Being able to say "Have a good afternoon..." to someone who has just called me every name under the sun for whatever reason
Accepting being sole reason for someone's bad day (after being onboard for two mins!)
Turning said pax around
Being competent in all aspects of first aid
Wiping vomit off tray tables and sidewalls (while smiling and saying thank you!)
Pretending to care about some total stranger's problem and then have to fix it
At all times (in case of emergency): knowing exactly what to do, when to do it, what everyone else will be doing and what to do if the first thing doesn't work - all without thinking....
Still smiling whilst doing all of this after working 6 days and 65 hours, away from home. AND BEING WILLING TO DO IT ALL OVER AGAIN!
The majority of FAs are worth every cent that they are paid. The same can be said for other customer contact staff too! And when an EBA is up I think that the majority of FAs can rightly ask for more.
Yes there are some FAs who really shouldn't be in the job for whatever reason. Yes there are some FAs who are only in the job for the money. I have witnessed some QF FAs (and from other airlines too) that are not worth the ground they walk on. In a way though these FAs lose out more than anyone. Coz they all go home to an empty house and feel miserable about the lack of substance in their lives. Not one of them feels happy about who they are and what they do to contribute to society. They all sit in their homes, alone, and secretly look forward to the next time they go to work. Coz it is the only place where people will give them the time of day.
Lets not slag out the entire FA contingent as we have done.... It is only the minority that some of you refer to. And yes they all drive between their four properties in some fancy car wearing $500 sunglasses and looking ever so glam. But for the reasons I mentioned above it is the rest of us, decent - hard workers, who have the last laugh.
Happy. Positive Energy.....
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Oh yeh, GT-R, you better believe it...
Chatting, paper work, reading latest Who , doing one's nails AND perving on 23D - all whilst doing the silent review! Ha ha ha.
Chatting, paper work, reading latest Who , doing one's nails AND perving on 23D - all whilst doing the silent review!
Ha ha ha.
Last edited by ditzyboy; 10th Mar 2003 at 00:51.
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Come now GT-R that's a little unfair to place all FA's into the one proverbial basket.
That would be like me saying that all pilots have short arms and deep pockets!!
Jesting aside, whether or not you agree or disagree with what it is that the L/H FA's had a stop work meeting over, as crew we should all be united and work together to achieve the best possible outcome for ALL of us. We shouldn't be passing judgement on whether they earn enough or too much or not enough.
Frankly, I don't give a rats what pilots earn, or for that matter what any other person in the company earns. I only care about what I earn. Selfish? Yes!
SG
That would be like me saying that all pilots have short arms and deep pockets!!
Jesting aside, whether or not you agree or disagree with what it is that the L/H FA's had a stop work meeting over, as crew we should all be united and work together to achieve the best possible outcome for ALL of us. We shouldn't be passing judgement on whether they earn enough or too much or not enough.
Frankly, I don't give a rats what pilots earn, or for that matter what any other person in the company earns. I only care about what I earn. Selfish? Yes!
SG
But the "you guys earn more than us" line is the only way us male FAs can get a drink out of the Techies! Not like the girls, who don't even have to try. They get drinks without having to ask
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It disappoints me to realise that colleagues who I have always considered 'brothers in arms' ie those at the coal face as opposed to those in the ivory towers, have so little respect for their colleagues in the cabin.
Ferris, well said and well done for reminding those who seem all to keen to bag CC and therefore miss the point.
For those of you who have done just that, think about this. Public fears and prejudices aside, software technicians have long ago developed the technology to permanently remove pilots from the aircraft equation forever, every bean counters wet dream!
No such software technology exists or is ever likely to, that will make cabin crew redundant.
All and any rebuttals eagerly anticipated.
PS when the next '89 happens, just listen for the deafening silence from amongst the cabin crew ranks.
Ferris, well said and well done for reminding those who seem all to keen to bag CC and therefore miss the point.
For those of you who have done just that, think about this. Public fears and prejudices aside, software technicians have long ago developed the technology to permanently remove pilots from the aircraft equation forever, every bean counters wet dream!
No such software technology exists or is ever likely to, that will make cabin crew redundant.
All and any rebuttals eagerly anticipated.
PS when the next '89 happens, just listen for the deafening silence from amongst the cabin crew ranks.
Brothers in arms ??? I don't think so. Just because we sit in the same tube?????Totally different job,totally different mindset, totally different union, totally different attitude to job and dare I say it, totally different attitude to company!!!!!!!
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I would like to challenge the person making comments about f/a's being uneducated and quote
"But Woomera, they aren't professionals. Being a flight attendant is not a profession. "
who the hell is this idiot ? Just because the requirements for oz carriers don't specify teritary education I think you'll find the MANY of us have degrees or diplomas. In the past week I flown with other f/a's who have have degrees in Bach Business/Law, Bach Education and Bach Arts - Japanese languages etc. By saying that we are not professionals is very naive - does that mean that police officers and fire fighters are not professionals because they were trained by their employers ?
Sorry to dissapoint you but when I hear and see my fellow f/a's performing First Aid/CPR, calming frightened people, taking abuse and 1000 other duties then I do belive that we are professionals. Those who disagree obviously have never been in command of a RPT aircraft before.
"But Woomera, they aren't professionals. Being a flight attendant is not a profession. "
who the hell is this idiot ? Just because the requirements for oz carriers don't specify teritary education I think you'll find the MANY of us have degrees or diplomas. In the past week I flown with other f/a's who have have degrees in Bach Business/Law, Bach Education and Bach Arts - Japanese languages etc. By saying that we are not professionals is very naive - does that mean that police officers and fire fighters are not professionals because they were trained by their employers ?
Sorry to dissapoint you but when I hear and see my fellow f/a's performing First Aid/CPR, calming frightened people, taking abuse and 1000 other duties then I do belive that we are professionals. Those who disagree obviously have never been in command of a RPT aircraft before.
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Cabinboy - I'm not taking a position here but: the acknowledged definition of a professional is someone who requires a qualification (and sometimes further courses of training) to be admitted to a body. i.e. Doctor, Lawyer and yes even a pilot.
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Rockarpee
There is an enormous difference between being able to read and being able to understand what is written. Don't confuse the two.
Amos2
Alas, you are spot on. This is a very sad thread, all of it! What motivated me to contribute to such mindless drivel in the first place I have no idea!
There is an enormous difference between being able to read and being able to understand what is written. Don't confuse the two.
Amos2
Alas, you are spot on. This is a very sad thread, all of it! What motivated me to contribute to such mindless drivel in the first place I have no idea!
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Bitter balance is right.... Nursing isn't even a profession, yet you take 3 + years to get trained at a formal institution.
Having said that there is still the ability to "act in professional manner" which I suspect CabinBoy is trying to convey.
Having said that there is still the ability to "act in professional manner" which I suspect CabinBoy is trying to convey.
The real meaning of Profession is...
professional
adjective 1 of, belonging to, or connected with a profession. 2 competent; worthy of professional. 3 engaged in specified activity as paid occupation, or (derogatory) fanatically. noun professional person. professionally adverb.
·adjective 1authorized, experienced, licensed, official, qualified, trained. 2able, businesslike, competent, conscientious, educated, efficient, expert, knowledgeable, masterly, proficient, proper, skilful, skilled, thorough. 3paid. noun expert, master, colloquial pro, specialist.
So basically if you do stuff for money - you are a professional.
Prostitutes are called professionals for a reason.
To belong to a "learned profession" is another. And I gaurantee you all that being a pilot does not comply.
adjective 1 of, belonging to, or connected with a profession. 2 competent; worthy of professional. 3 engaged in specified activity as paid occupation, or (derogatory) fanatically. noun professional person. professionally adverb.
·adjective 1authorized, experienced, licensed, official, qualified, trained. 2able, businesslike, competent, conscientious, educated, efficient, expert, knowledgeable, masterly, proficient, proper, skilful, skilled, thorough. 3paid. noun expert, master, colloquial pro, specialist.
So basically if you do stuff for money - you are a professional.
Prostitutes are called professionals for a reason.
To belong to a "learned profession" is another. And I gaurantee you all that being a pilot does not comply.
Medicinal Moderatreuse
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What are the characteristics of a "profession"? Miller, Adams and Beck (1993) proposed that that certain behaviors contribute to professionalism, as follows:
* There is an educational background required to ensure safe and effective practice.
* Members of the profession adhere to a code of ethics.
* Members participate in professional organizations.
* Members are accountable for continuing education and competency.
* Professionals publish and communicate their knowledge and advances in their profession.
* A profession develops, evaluates and uses theory as a basis for practice.
* Members of the profession are involved in research.
M.
* There is an educational background required to ensure safe and effective practice.
* Members of the profession adhere to a code of ethics.
* Members participate in professional organizations.
* Members are accountable for continuing education and competency.
* Professionals publish and communicate their knowledge and advances in their profession.
* A profession develops, evaluates and uses theory as a basis for practice.
* Members of the profession are involved in research.
M.
Last edited by min; 15th Mar 2003 at 06:34.
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When I was completing my B. Nursing at Uni I had to complete a piece for a unit entitled "Profession of Nursing". The piece was about whether nursing is or is not a profession. Throughout my research and 3500 odd words I discovered that it was in fact not a profession as determined by some body of people. If say, I used 10 resources for study, 9 of them indicated that Nursing was not a true profession. Even though Nurses can belong to a professional body and act in a professional manner........ Sorry it was 4 years and a whole lifetime ago. I fly thank God - Nursing pay was the pits! Nurses - they ARE underpaid!
SORRY - back to avaiation.....
SORRY - back to avaiation.....
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Well - this is a lively topic isn't it...
Quite simply, I think Ditzy and Cabinboy have answered the statement (I don't ever think it was a question) that Cabin Crew are professionals...
And to further Mins' statement:
* There is an educational background required to ensure safe and effective practice.
There are a number of competencies - primarily humanities based - that Cabin Crew are expected to possess. Most of them are aspects of human behaviour you cannot teach - such as empathy, intuition, flexibility to adapt to ever changing situations, lateral thinking...
* Members of the profession adhere to a code of ethics.
All airlines - in particular the Q - have a code of ethics, procedures, etc, that cabin crew must follow.
* Members participate in professional organizations.
Flight Safety Organisation, CASA, etc. all conduct cabin safety programmes that involve select crew in assisting in Human Factors planning and training, etc.
* Members are accountable for continuing education and competency.
Well - we must be in order to adapt to the world around us - A380 anyone?
* Professionals publish and communicate their knowledge and advances in their profession.
Qantas Flight Safety Mag, FlightSafety magazine through the ATSB, Cabin Safety Conferences, Cranfield University Human Factors and Cabin Safety training programs, etc.
* A profession develops, evaluates and uses theory as a basis for practice.
Anyone taken a look at the Qantas JetBase in SYD and MEL training centres recently?
* Members of the profession are involved in research.
With a number of worldwide airlines in building on safety and procedural knowledge, to enhance safety and survival in our industry.
Let's not get into an argument about pilots vs. cabin crew - we have enough problems dodging management missiles and passengers problems!
Quite simply, I think Ditzy and Cabinboy have answered the statement (I don't ever think it was a question) that Cabin Crew are professionals...
And to further Mins' statement:
* There is an educational background required to ensure safe and effective practice.
There are a number of competencies - primarily humanities based - that Cabin Crew are expected to possess. Most of them are aspects of human behaviour you cannot teach - such as empathy, intuition, flexibility to adapt to ever changing situations, lateral thinking...
* Members of the profession adhere to a code of ethics.
All airlines - in particular the Q - have a code of ethics, procedures, etc, that cabin crew must follow.
* Members participate in professional organizations.
Flight Safety Organisation, CASA, etc. all conduct cabin safety programmes that involve select crew in assisting in Human Factors planning and training, etc.
* Members are accountable for continuing education and competency.
Well - we must be in order to adapt to the world around us - A380 anyone?
* Professionals publish and communicate their knowledge and advances in their profession.
Qantas Flight Safety Mag, FlightSafety magazine through the ATSB, Cabin Safety Conferences, Cranfield University Human Factors and Cabin Safety training programs, etc.
* A profession develops, evaluates and uses theory as a basis for practice.
Anyone taken a look at the Qantas JetBase in SYD and MEL training centres recently?
* Members of the profession are involved in research.
With a number of worldwide airlines in building on safety and procedural knowledge, to enhance safety and survival in our industry.
Let's not get into an argument about pilots vs. cabin crew - we have enough problems dodging management missiles and passengers problems!
