QF Flight Attendants Strike?
Join Date: Dec 2002
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I think the whole QF Cabin Crew situation stinks.
How can a junior cabin crew member have an earning capacity not that far off a junior 767 s/o?
There are 4000 of them earning this much +++.
Cabin crew have it incredibly good, six weeks of training and you can go from a waitress to an FA, and suddenly become a 'safety professional' etc etc etc.
Wish it took 6 weeks to go from working in Safeway to having a 767 endorsement......And have it cost zilch.......
It is pretty obvious from the responses in customer surveys that customers want bright, young, energetic, happy flight attendants serving them, not old 20, 30 year employees who clearly appear pretty much just their for the ride.
Sure there are plenty of older, seasoned cabin crew who are very good at what they do, but they are getting paid too much in a job that really doesn't require all that much experience.
How can a junior cabin crew member have an earning capacity not that far off a junior 767 s/o?
There are 4000 of them earning this much +++.
Cabin crew have it incredibly good, six weeks of training and you can go from a waitress to an FA, and suddenly become a 'safety professional' etc etc etc.
Wish it took 6 weeks to go from working in Safeway to having a 767 endorsement......And have it cost zilch.......
It is pretty obvious from the responses in customer surveys that customers want bright, young, energetic, happy flight attendants serving them, not old 20, 30 year employees who clearly appear pretty much just their for the ride.
Sure there are plenty of older, seasoned cabin crew who are very good at what they do, but they are getting paid too much in a job that really doesn't require all that much experience.
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Careful GT-R, you might get what you wish for.
"Wish it took 6 weeks to go from working in Safeway to having a 767 endorsement......And have it cost zilch....... "
Imagine if the rat offered S/O jobs at 15grand a year, endorsement paid for. There'd be a queue a mile long. How long did those engineers take to convert?
Why are you getting raggy because others are trying to improve (maintain?) their lot? Is it fair that real estate agents or HR people make 2 or 3 times what you do? If you think you are worth more, you know what to do.........
"Wish it took 6 weeks to go from working in Safeway to having a 767 endorsement......And have it cost zilch....... "
Imagine if the rat offered S/O jobs at 15grand a year, endorsement paid for. There'd be a queue a mile long. How long did those engineers take to convert?
Why are you getting raggy because others are trying to improve (maintain?) their lot? Is it fair that real estate agents or HR people make 2 or 3 times what you do? If you think you are worth more, you know what to do.........
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Well said GT-R.
From a regulatory point of view it takes about 6 weeks to train
a suitable applicant off the street as a F/A.
You talk of how hard you work- try a busy cafe or restaurant on a Saturday night. Less than one third the pay for what is in effect the same job. There are HUNDREDS of x airline employees who have (NOT by choice) had a taste of the real world, and don't like it at all- be careful or you WILL be flattened in the rush.
Remember that most of you are earning FAR beyond your education. training and interlectual capabilities; Don't bite the hand that feeds you as YOU need QF a heck of a lot more than they need you.
BRING OUT THE BLOWTORCH!!!
From a regulatory point of view it takes about 6 weeks to train
a suitable applicant off the street as a F/A.
You talk of how hard you work- try a busy cafe or restaurant on a Saturday night. Less than one third the pay for what is in effect the same job. There are HUNDREDS of x airline employees who have (NOT by choice) had a taste of the real world, and don't like it at all- be careful or you WILL be flattened in the rush.
Remember that most of you are earning FAR beyond your education. training and interlectual capabilities; Don't bite the hand that feeds you as YOU need QF a heck of a lot more than they need you.
BRING OUT THE BLOWTORCH!!!
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Without getting embroiled in this too much 
The reason the stop-work meeting was called is, there was a clause written into the last EBA stating that QF would recognise the additional workload incurred by cabin crew after reducing the numbers of crew on longhaul flights. The sole reason the last EBA (and pay-freeze) was agreed to was because of this clause. The crew feel the company has not fulfilled its obligation in regards to this clause, and has basically ignored it ---- instead asking the longhaul crew to take an effective pay-cut by reducing the number of paid hours in a bid period, --- I wouldn't expect anyone to understand the details, unless they understand our rostering/ duty- pay procedures!!
Thats the main reason, but there are many more; Overseas Base increases etc --- if you really want to know the details, go to the FAAA website . All of the information is available there.
Agree with the longahul crew or not, it matters not.
And as for GT-R ---- it is amusing that (some) techies are so fascinated with cabin crew rates of pay. We dont give a toss what you guys get paid, so why the fascination in what we get paid? Its like comparing apples and oranges ---- yes, we are part of the same team, yet the job descriptions, responsibilities and requirements are so different, that any comparison between tech crew and cabin crew rates of pay is pointless (and divisive).
Let us get on with ours, and you get on with yours.
Cheers
The reason the stop-work meeting was called is, there was a clause written into the last EBA stating that QF would recognise the additional workload incurred by cabin crew after reducing the numbers of crew on longhaul flights. The sole reason the last EBA (and pay-freeze) was agreed to was because of this clause. The crew feel the company has not fulfilled its obligation in regards to this clause, and has basically ignored it ---- instead asking the longhaul crew to take an effective pay-cut by reducing the number of paid hours in a bid period, --- I wouldn't expect anyone to understand the details, unless they understand our rostering/ duty- pay procedures!!
Thats the main reason, but there are many more; Overseas Base increases etc --- if you really want to know the details, go to the FAAA website . All of the information is available there.
Agree with the longahul crew or not, it matters not.
And as for GT-R ---- it is amusing that (some) techies are so fascinated with cabin crew rates of pay. We dont give a toss what you guys get paid, so why the fascination in what we get paid? Its like comparing apples and oranges ---- yes, we are part of the same team, yet the job descriptions, responsibilities and requirements are so different, that any comparison between tech crew and cabin crew rates of pay is pointless (and divisive).
Let us get on with ours, and you get on with yours.
Cheers
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Reminds me of the CX Flt Att strike a number of years back.
The company decided to train ground staff to operate in an emergency capacity only (operation of doors/escape slides/tapes/evacuation commands etc).
No service tasks were given (ie: meal/drink services).
This didnt take long at all and was legally recognised by the appropriate licensing authority of HK.
Now if necessary Qantas would in all probability do this and I'm sure the ground staff that have hoped and wished to be F/A's may just achieve their goal - only this time on a possibly permanent basis.
In an industry that is struggling to keep its head above water this irresponsible action by the Flt Att union may cause more harm than they realise.
Sure QF may be profitable at the moment but so was United et al' a number of years back also.
3% + a bonus not enough?
I hope they hang themselves.
If QF F/A's gave the same service that you get with CX/SQ etc they may be worth it but not in this case.
Lunacy and wishful thinking at its best.
The company decided to train ground staff to operate in an emergency capacity only (operation of doors/escape slides/tapes/evacuation commands etc).
No service tasks were given (ie: meal/drink services).
This didnt take long at all and was legally recognised by the appropriate licensing authority of HK.
Now if necessary Qantas would in all probability do this and I'm sure the ground staff that have hoped and wished to be F/A's may just achieve their goal - only this time on a possibly permanent basis.
In an industry that is struggling to keep its head above water this irresponsible action by the Flt Att union may cause more harm than they realise.
Sure QF may be profitable at the moment but so was United et al' a number of years back also.
3% + a bonus not enough?
I hope they hang themselves.
If QF F/A's gave the same service that you get with CX/SQ etc they may be worth it but not in this case.
Lunacy and wishful thinking at its best.
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
I'm about to make an OBSERVATION here - NOT start a cat and dog fight!!
The 6 weeks (quoted earlier by GT-R) is mainly made up of the extra "niceties" eg. inflight meal and beverage service, handling disruptive pax, PA etiquette, etc.
The REQUIREMENTS - as prescribed by LAW - do not include those.
The actual BASIC REQUIREMENTS for a Flight Attendant to be capable of opening exits in an emergency, and assisting pax evacuation (or re-directing them), and dealing with an inflight fire, can be covered in 1 or 2 days.
But let's get down to the "nitty gritty" stuff.
Crew wages pale into insignificance when one looks at the TOTAL number of employees who depend on the revenue earned when that aircraft flies.
The REAL drain on profits, from slaries, is in the legions of non revenue producing ground and office staff that airline management employs. Jobs that do not require full time employees, and that could be contracted out at far less expense.
If Geoff and Margaret took 2 months holiday, is QANTAS going to cease operations....would anybody even MISS them??!!
As much as a strike will focus attention on the F/A's plight, it may well be over within a couple of days.
The bigger threat that management fear is the decline of profits (because that directly affects THEIR [enormous] bonus payments), and one of the reasons for a decline in profits can be as a result of a decrease in pax revenue.
Pax get p!ssed off - and write nasty letters to airlines - if their service is degraded, or NON-EXISTENT.
The campaign will obviously last a lot longer than a strike, but your exposure to management "tactics" is dramatically reduced.
The 6 weeks (quoted earlier by GT-R) is mainly made up of the extra "niceties" eg. inflight meal and beverage service, handling disruptive pax, PA etiquette, etc.
The REQUIREMENTS - as prescribed by LAW - do not include those.
The actual BASIC REQUIREMENTS for a Flight Attendant to be capable of opening exits in an emergency, and assisting pax evacuation (or re-directing them), and dealing with an inflight fire, can be covered in 1 or 2 days.
But let's get down to the "nitty gritty" stuff.
Crew wages pale into insignificance when one looks at the TOTAL number of employees who depend on the revenue earned when that aircraft flies.
The REAL drain on profits, from slaries, is in the legions of non revenue producing ground and office staff that airline management employs. Jobs that do not require full time employees, and that could be contracted out at far less expense.
If Geoff and Margaret took 2 months holiday, is QANTAS going to cease operations....would anybody even MISS them??!!
As much as a strike will focus attention on the F/A's plight, it may well be over within a couple of days.
The bigger threat that management fear is the decline of profits (because that directly affects THEIR [enormous] bonus payments), and one of the reasons for a decline in profits can be as a result of a decrease in pax revenue.
Pax get p!ssed off - and write nasty letters to airlines - if their service is degraded, or NON-EXISTENT.
The campaign will obviously last a lot longer than a strike, but your exposure to management "tactics" is dramatically reduced.
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AAP
Striking Qantas staff call on CASA
February 24, 2003
QANTAS flight attendants have asked the Civil Aviation Safety Authority (CASA) to rule whether a fast-track training course it says the airline held in preparation for a strike tonight jeopardises safety.
Johanna Brem, of the Flight Attendants Association of Australia (FAAA), said the airline was planning to use 100 undertrained staff to fill in for international flight attendants, who plan to stop work for 14 hours starting at midnight tonight.
Qantas has denied the suggestion, saying all cabin crews working during the strike will be experienced and meet regulatory requirements.
Ms Brem said: "Normally you have a 10-day training course for a new aircraft, but they did a one-day conversion training on the weekend.
"The FAAA has alerted CASA to look at the fast-track training and rule on whether it's acceptable or not."
On Friday, the FAAA failed to win an Australian Industrial Relations Commission order that Qantas be disallowed from using the "scab labour", due to safety and security concerns.
"Cabin crew are first and foremost safety professionals with extensive training and experience," Ms Brem said.
"We are the difference between lives saved and lives lost in aircraft emergencies."
Qantas said all scheduled flights would be running during the strike, although there may be some delays.
International flight attendants are taking the action to push a log of claims, including a seven per cent pay rise, in reward for productivity gains the FAAA says have saved Qantas $40 million annually.
They will stop work from midnight until 2pm (AEDT) tomorrow and plan to meet in Sydney, Melbourne and Perth tomorrow morning to discuss strategy.
AAP
Striking Qantas staff call on CASA
February 24, 2003
QANTAS flight attendants have asked the Civil Aviation Safety Authority (CASA) to rule whether a fast-track training course it says the airline held in preparation for a strike tonight jeopardises safety.
Johanna Brem, of the Flight Attendants Association of Australia (FAAA), said the airline was planning to use 100 undertrained staff to fill in for international flight attendants, who plan to stop work for 14 hours starting at midnight tonight.
Qantas has denied the suggestion, saying all cabin crews working during the strike will be experienced and meet regulatory requirements.
Ms Brem said: "Normally you have a 10-day training course for a new aircraft, but they did a one-day conversion training on the weekend.
"The FAAA has alerted CASA to look at the fast-track training and rule on whether it's acceptable or not."
On Friday, the FAAA failed to win an Australian Industrial Relations Commission order that Qantas be disallowed from using the "scab labour", due to safety and security concerns.
"Cabin crew are first and foremost safety professionals with extensive training and experience," Ms Brem said.
"We are the difference between lives saved and lives lost in aircraft emergencies."
Qantas said all scheduled flights would be running during the strike, although there may be some delays.
International flight attendants are taking the action to push a log of claims, including a seven per cent pay rise, in reward for productivity gains the FAAA says have saved Qantas $40 million annually.
They will stop work from midnight until 2pm (AEDT) tomorrow and plan to meet in Sydney, Melbourne and Perth tomorrow morning to discuss strategy.
AAP
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The Qantas response at
Qantas.com
Qantas.com
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Kap,
Agree with you completely.
The airline has the highest employee-to-aircraft ratio of any carrier in SE Asia.
Flight ops training is a good example - massively overstaffed with 'project consultants ' and the like who produce nothing and add no value.
The F/A strike is complex - (CSM's earn $100k for e.g) but we have the lowest number of F/A's per aircraft of any of the majors in SEA.
Even with the best will in the world the cabin crew service level is going to suffer.
good luck to F/A's for tomorrow.
FS
Agree with you completely.
The airline has the highest employee-to-aircraft ratio of any carrier in SE Asia.
Flight ops training is a good example - massively overstaffed with 'project consultants ' and the like who produce nothing and add no value.
The F/A strike is complex - (CSM's earn $100k for e.g) but we have the lowest number of F/A's per aircraft of any of the majors in SEA.
Even with the best will in the world the cabin crew service level is going to suffer.
good luck to F/A's for tomorrow.
FS
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Strike me aray. Unfortunately, at the end of the day its the public that suffers. These people actyally have something to do with geting your wages paid. It certainly is an idealistic point the FAAA is trying to make, but in the current climate a very foolish one indeed. But then again , if you make your own bed I guess you have to be prepared to lie in it.
Could self service aircraft cabins become a reality?
DM
Could self service aircraft cabins become a reality?
DM
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I was talking to a friend the other day and asked him what he earned after doing 4 years at Uni. He told me straight out he earned $29,000 and after 2- 3 years was earning about $40,000-$50,000. He was doing 40-50 hrs a week and got 4 weeks holiday a year and 18 sick days. I think these guys should look at reality and realise how good a wicket their on. Business is business and a company is allowed to make the call how they make the shareholders money, not bow to overpaid whingers. Go get a normal job and see how hard you work and how hard your done by.
I've just got to sit down now, the altitude on this soap box is making me dizzy.
As for the virgin comment,don't some people get antsy when somone tries something different and the public go for it.
I've just got to sit down now, the altitude on this soap box is making me dizzy.
As for the virgin comment,don't some people get antsy when somone tries something different and the public go for it.
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Do you ever hear FAs discuss about how much tech crew are paid??? 
The main point of the strike is that QF is not willing to enter discussions about something THAT THEY COMMITTED TO DO IN WRITING.... The FAs are simply wanting the recognition that QF said they would. QF's proposal does not recognise even the smallest bit of the money they saved through the crew reduction amongst other things. And they won't even discuss it!
Why would the FAs stand by and watch their conditions get worse? Regardless of how wonderful some of you people think that they are. Why would anyone let anything go without a fight?
With record profits, new aircraft and routes, new uniforms, service upgrades and plans to buy stakes in other airlines it seems hypocritical that QF wants the FAs to make sacrifices. As with all unions the FAAA was quick to make sacrifices post 9-11. But with all this talk of profits how can QF justify being so tight now? QF is willing to help out AA and buy a stake. Yet QF will not even recognise it's own workforce whom it continually thanks for being "so hard-working through and understand through times....." Or is that just moral-boosting nonsense?
The above is simply my understanding and opinion about the situation. I am not chucking a tanty (Buster...) as I am not a Long Haul FA and have nothing to lose or gain from this strike action. Just an opinion. Although it is hard to not to get worked up when reading such narrow-minded views like Potato's. How about being constructive, mate?
amos2-
Yes. I wonder how it will be for the strikebreakers (scab is such a nasty word) when this all blows over?
The main point of the strike is that QF is not willing to enter discussions about something THAT THEY COMMITTED TO DO IN WRITING.... The FAs are simply wanting the recognition that QF said they would. QF's proposal does not recognise even the smallest bit of the money they saved through the crew reduction amongst other things. And they won't even discuss it!
Why would the FAs stand by and watch their conditions get worse? Regardless of how wonderful some of you people think that they are. Why would anyone let anything go without a fight?
With record profits, new aircraft and routes, new uniforms, service upgrades and plans to buy stakes in other airlines it seems hypocritical that QF wants the FAs to make sacrifices. As with all unions the FAAA was quick to make sacrifices post 9-11. But with all this talk of profits how can QF justify being so tight now? QF is willing to help out AA and buy a stake. Yet QF will not even recognise it's own workforce whom it continually thanks for being "so hard-working through and understand through times....." Or is that just moral-boosting nonsense?
The above is simply my understanding and opinion about the situation. I am not chucking a tanty (Buster...
) as I am not a Long Haul FA and have nothing to lose or gain from this strike action. Just an opinion. Although it is hard to not to get worked up when reading such narrow-minded views like Potato's. How about being constructive, mate?amos2-
Yes. I wonder how it will be for the strikebreakers (scab is such a nasty word) when this all blows over?
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You're so tuff amos. Ruff 'n' tuff. Can I be like you one day?
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what is the sound of one ball slapping
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what is the sound of one ball slapping
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amos2-
Sorry - that wasn't directed at you... Was just saying it sounds nasty. I was asking a geniune question. What will it be like for the strike breakers? Will there be a list like the one for the pilots? How will the other crew react when working along side them.
Besides I was answering your question. Yes flights did depart with "scab" labour. Happy amos, I used that word
Sorry - that wasn't directed at you... Was just saying it sounds nasty. I was asking a geniune question. What will it be like for the strike breakers? Will there be a list like the one for the pilots? How will the other crew react when working along side them.
Besides I was answering your question. Yes flights did depart with "scab" labour. Happy amos, I used that word
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It all comes down to shareholders. FUTURE likely events are factored into the market. Shareholders (and potential shareholders) want to see what measures QF will take to 'tighten its belt" during the downturn in international pax traffic. Their pleasure or otherwise in what they see will be reflected in the market price. It's not right. It is no way to treat the staff who are on the 'frontline' of customer service but it is reality.
LH
LH