LATAM upset SYD-AKL Mon 11 Mar
Or - as the a/c was a Boeing - the CoPilot wanted to adjuist his seat, activated his switch and the other seatr started moving. 
Boeing has a long history of messed up cabling, swapping right with left :
Back in the days of me attending university in the 90ies there was a joke about a priest at his final visit to a death row imate carring good and bad news: bad was that the convict's appeal was denied, good was that Boeing did the cabeling on the electric chair.
(background given was a then recent incident, where extinguishing an actual fire in one engnie actually soaked the remaining good engine due to mis-cabling)
I was truly amazed at reading this from 2013 : https://www.flyingmag.com/aircraft-j...oeing-787-woe/
Somehow they don't learn and do not fix their quality checks.
Boeing has a long history of messed up cabling, swapping right with left :
Back in the days of me attending university in the 90ies there was a joke about a priest at his final visit to a death row imate carring good and bad news: bad was that the convict's appeal was denied, good was that Boeing did the cabeling on the electric chair.
(background given was a then recent incident, where extinguishing an actual fire in one engnie actually soaked the remaining good engine due to mis-cabling)
I was truly amazed at reading this from 2013 : https://www.flyingmag.com/aircraft-j...oeing-787-woe/
Somehow they don't learn and do not fix their quality checks.
There's a line for you "Boeing. A company founded by a William E Boeing, now run by a Wile E Coyote".
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Just read a news article (not the most reliable source I know!) that a flight attendant hit a switch on the pilot's seat while serving meals.
Maybe the meal tray or pilot's leg was pushing against the control column while the seat was moving forward - eventually the autopilot disconnects and down you go!
Maybe the meal tray or pilot's leg was pushing against the control column while the seat was moving forward - eventually the autopilot disconnects and down you go!
According to Juan Browne / blancolirio, it's looking like a faulty rocker switch on the seat: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cRF1...el=blancolirio
Maybe the extra at the end of the link?
If it’s something as simple as a dodgy seat switch why don’t they come out with an interim finding? Surely a quick chat with all the crew in the cockpit and a 5 minute poke around the switch would confirm this.
That the aircraft was deemed fit to ferry back to Santiago a couple of days later indicates that there were no serious underlying design or technical issues of concern.
Starting to look like this issue is now in the hands of the respective company’s PR departments.
That the aircraft was deemed fit to ferry back to Santiago a couple of days later indicates that there were no serious underlying design or technical issues of concern.
Starting to look like this issue is now in the hands of the respective company’s PR departments.
And the MH A330 and QF A330 off Western Australia? Was that due to good 'Airbus' design flaws as opposed to 'crap Boeing product'.
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Never had a switch stick, but equally they don’t feel like the highest quality. A meal tray or even an iPad on your lap would get wedged pretty quickly, and given the force needed to disconnect the autopilot would easily result in a violent pitch down.
For what it’s worth, momentary screen blanking is not unusual on the 787 and is usually just a result of a GPM restarting in the CCS.
For what it’s worth, momentary screen blanking is not unusual on the 787 and is usually just a result of a GPM restarting in the CCS.
This crap about the 737 Max seems to have taken on a narrative that’s not founded on facts. The Lion Air crash investigation alone points to some glaring failures and negligence.
https://www.aviationtoday.com/2019/1...uting-factors/
https://www.aviationtoday.com/2019/1...uting-factors/
This crap about the 737 Max seems to have taken on a narrative that’s not founded on facts
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Interesting discussion.
I'm just an observer, not an expert, but the debate about Airbus vs Boeing really needs it's own dedicated blog or topic, imho.
That said, for my 2 cents, it's hard to beat the AF447 crash of an A330. A simple, temporary icing up of (I think) a pitot tube, led to that situation, The unforgivable flaw with that is that the junior pilot was secretly countermanding the inputs of the more senior, then pilot-attempting-to-fly. There was, it seems, no obvious way that the PIC could tell that his inputs were being countered. Nothing like a horn and warning saying "Pilot Input Conflict" or some such. This would also warn about inadvertent inputs, such as laptops, dinner trays, hostess's feet, legs, head etc jamming a stick, or a faulty stick.
I suppose that situation is still the same?
A bit like having your seat driven forward without your input.
This stupid seat switch design, equally seems to have had no one with any sense overseeing it and its possible risks - such as the most obvious - hijackers and terrorists. Now, they all know about it.
Ordinary, everyday car manufacturers do far better. My car warns when the driver and passenger seat belts are not fastened. The passenger seat has a weight switch built in to stop erroneous warnings - though something heavy enough on the passenger seat will set it off anyway. Reminds you to strap the package in too...
The point is, weight switches on the pilot's seats to disable the seat-back switches would have prevented this entirely, faulty or missing cover, loose switch or whatever. To me, this "accident" is inexcusable for an aircraft manufacturer to design in.
As for the "kinky" seat track - WTF? Isn't there ample space on the outboard side to get in? Is this just a marketing gimmick? "Look, we have a side-shifting pilot's seat!" WOW! Or WaW.
Flying is just getting scarier and scarier. This accident wouldn't even happen on an ordinary commuter bus. And some of those drivers are Eeenormous.
I'm just an observer, not an expert, but the debate about Airbus vs Boeing really needs it's own dedicated blog or topic, imho.
That said, for my 2 cents, it's hard to beat the AF447 crash of an A330. A simple, temporary icing up of (I think) a pitot tube, led to that situation, The unforgivable flaw with that is that the junior pilot was secretly countermanding the inputs of the more senior, then pilot-attempting-to-fly. There was, it seems, no obvious way that the PIC could tell that his inputs were being countered. Nothing like a horn and warning saying "Pilot Input Conflict" or some such. This would also warn about inadvertent inputs, such as laptops, dinner trays, hostess's feet, legs, head etc jamming a stick, or a faulty stick.
I suppose that situation is still the same?
A bit like having your seat driven forward without your input.
This stupid seat switch design, equally seems to have had no one with any sense overseeing it and its possible risks - such as the most obvious - hijackers and terrorists. Now, they all know about it.
Ordinary, everyday car manufacturers do far better. My car warns when the driver and passenger seat belts are not fastened. The passenger seat has a weight switch built in to stop erroneous warnings - though something heavy enough on the passenger seat will set it off anyway. Reminds you to strap the package in too...
The point is, weight switches on the pilot's seats to disable the seat-back switches would have prevented this entirely, faulty or missing cover, loose switch or whatever. To me, this "accident" is inexcusable for an aircraft manufacturer to design in.
As for the "kinky" seat track - WTF? Isn't there ample space on the outboard side to get in? Is this just a marketing gimmick? "Look, we have a side-shifting pilot's seat!" WOW! Or WaW.
Flying is just getting scarier and scarier. This accident wouldn't even happen on an ordinary commuter bus. And some of those drivers are Eeenormous.
The Max reputation is completely unfounded and the FAA, EASA grounded it because of bias. Drink the Boeing Kool Aid if you want to but the facts about MCAS and single point of failure are well and truly in the public domain. Of all the crap Boeing products that one is the worst...so far.
Did you read the report or just launch at the key pad?
The flight attendant serving a meal who allegedly hit the seat switch causing the plane to nose dive wouldn’t have been strapped in by a seat belt, so would also have hit the ceiling along with all others who weren’t strapped in.
Were there reports of someone in the cockpit smashing against the ceiling?
Just asking…
Were there reports of someone in the cockpit smashing against the ceiling?
Just asking…
Another Boeing apologist. If it was just the quality of the pilots and their lack of understanding of the runway trim recall then why the worldwide grounding, Senate hearings and the FAA taking up their office space back in the Boeing factories all suggest that the Max is a crap product. BTW I have several thousand hours on the 737 so not self-appointed.
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MaybeItIs, You are not a pilot are you? Have a look at the video above.
Most jet aircraft have some sideways movement of the seat, otherwise, no there is no room to get in.
Wrong.
Most jet aircraft have some sideways movement of the seat, otherwise, no there is no room to get in.
There was, it seems, no obvious way that the PIC could tell that his inputs were being countered.
In the case of AF447 the dual input alert went unnoticed. This was primarily because the Airbus design philosophy is very aural alert heavy. When things go bad the alerts simply cancel each other. This has been a problem on other Airbus events.