Jetstar Reopening Perth Base
Why do management keep saying “we are OPENING a Perth base…” and not “we are RE-OPENING”. I suppose they don’t want to admit their mistakes. Apparently over 75 Perth based Qantas Group Pilots (not just Jetstar) were offered relocation packages (or unemployment) during covid.
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Calm down Neil Armstrong, it’s not that hard. Many other countries in the world have captains with 2,000 or so hours, flying in countries with much harder problems (ice, snow, low vis at every port) than we have here in Australia.
Well lets just see shall we. Australia's aviation infrastructure is rapidly becoming third rate (not third world theirs is better) whereas in Europe ILS to ILS and plenty of suitable airports.
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I can tell you the only reason why traditionally Captains here have high amounts of experience, and it’s purely supply and demand, and seniority.
It’s not a hard job geniuses, stop pretending it is. The sky isn’t going to suddenly fall in because some guys who have only worked at Jetstar for 5 years are getting a command.
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morno, how the **** did you get in to Qantas?? Wasn't there something in the aptitude test that said something about the necessity for 20 years of right seat ops?
It’s not that hard until it is.
Experience should teach us all that.
Experience should teach us all that.
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Much longer than 3/4 years!! BOAC/BA were recruiting 250 hour pilots from training schools onto 737/A320/757 for many years, and continue to do so.
Quite a few Concorde Captains started as 200 hour co pilots out of the Hamble College.
Quite a few Concorde Captains started as 200 hour co pilots out of the Hamble College.
But airlines, both LCCs like Easyjet and Ryanair or legacies like BA or LH do it all with 200hr F/Os in the right seat of 180 seat jets, and then some carriers command after 4/5 years.
And we act as if this is something new to Australia, but the first Cadetships were run in this country in the early 60s. I’d guess that a quarter to a third of all Australian airline pilots today are products of some type of cadet or academy scheme.
Last edited by dr dre; 23rd Nov 2023 at 13:33.
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It’s funny that the proponents of cadet schemes always retreat to the ‘everyone else does it and they don’t have safety issues’ argument when what they are beautifully describing is a normalisation of deviance. I’m not saying cadets are dangerous any more than I’m saying they’re not but it doesn’t make sense to defend a scheme that exists solely to undercut pilot T&C’s and to fill a supply problem of the airlines creation. If the career was so great they would have no problem filling spots.
It’s good to see the PER base reopening, it’s just a shame that QF chose to run such an amateurishly short term game, sure they can claim it’s ’just business’ but the damage they did to families cannot be ignored. They really need to stop pretending to give a fvck about the mental health of their employees because it’s clear they don’t.
It’s good to see the PER base reopening, it’s just a shame that QF chose to run such an amateurishly short term game, sure they can claim it’s ’just business’ but the damage they did to families cannot be ignored. They really need to stop pretending to give a fvck about the mental health of their employees because it’s clear they don’t.
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It’s funny that the proponents of cadet schemes always retreat to the ‘everyone else does it and they don’t have safety issues’ argument when what they are beautifully describing is a normalisation of deviance. I’m not saying cadets are dangerous any more than I’m saying they’re not but it doesn’t make sense to defend a scheme that exists solely to undercut pilot T&C’s and to fill a supply problem of the airlines creation. If the career was so great they would have no problem filling spots.
It’s good to see the PER base reopening, it’s just a shame that QF chose to run such an amateurishly short term game, sure they can claim it’s ’just business’ but the damage they did to families cannot be ignored. They really need to stop pretending to give a fvck about the mental health of their employees because it’s clear they don’t.
It’s good to see the PER base reopening, it’s just a shame that QF chose to run such an amateurishly short term game, sure they can claim it’s ’just business’ but the damage they did to families cannot be ignored. They really need to stop pretending to give a fvck about the mental health of their employees because it’s clear they don’t.
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Always makes me laugh when people say flying in Europe is easy compared to Australia. Flying in Europe has real CAT111 Opes, Real Contaminated Runways, Metric Airspace in Russia, highly technical approaches such as Innesbruck, Steep approaches into short runways etc and of course it is not all ILS’s. What makes OZ so complicated is all self inflicted such as terrible airspace design, a set of rules developed in isolation to the rest of the world and terrible ATC and Infrastructure. Daily flying in Europe is infinitely more complicated than OZ.
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Always makes me laugh when people say flying in Europe is easy compared to Australia. Flying in Europe has real CAT111 Opes, Real Contaminated Runways, Metric Airspace in Russia, highly technical approaches such as Innesbruck, Steep approaches into short runways etc and of course it is not all ILS’s. What makes OZ so complicated is all self inflicted such as terrible airspace design, a set of rules developed in isolation to the rest of the world and terrible ATC and Infrastructure. Daily flying in Europe is infinitely more complicated than OZ.
I have flown in Aus / Europe / Africa and it’s all the bloody same - some is complex, some is painful, none of it is “hard”.
You’re a pilot - deal with it FFS. Stop the size competition.
Cadets are no more dangerous than non cadets - depends entirely on the individual. Not all hours are equal. Get over yourselves.
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Which narrative is correct?
Cadet FO’s in Pilbara Ops normal, no additional risk backed by worldwide precedent
or
CASA's Pilbara Region Airspace Review draft document released for industry comment hasn't yet recognised the issues raised by all operators and failed to link the lack of Communications, Navigation and Surveillance infrastructure with the potential for reduced safety margins.
Cadet FO’s in Pilbara Ops normal, no additional risk backed by worldwide precedent
or
CASA's Pilbara Region Airspace Review draft document released for industry comment hasn't yet recognised the issues raised by all operators and failed to link the lack of Communications, Navigation and Surveillance infrastructure with the potential for reduced safety margins.
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All this talk about here is harder than there is just rubbish.
I have flown in Aus / Europe / Africa and it’s all the bloody same - some is complex, some is painful, none of it is “hard”.
You’re a pilot - deal with it FFS. Stop the size competition.
Cadets are no more dangerous than non cadets - depends entirely on the individual. Not all hours are equal. Get over yourselves.
I have flown in Aus / Europe / Africa and it’s all the bloody same - some is complex, some is painful, none of it is “hard”.
You’re a pilot - deal with it FFS. Stop the size competition.
Cadets are no more dangerous than non cadets - depends entirely on the individual. Not all hours are equal. Get over yourselves.
Thread Starter
At the end of the day, we're all trained to standards set by the regulator and the company and we all have to reach and maintain those standards whether we're cadets or 10,000 plus jet pilots. I've flown in the sim with both and when it comes to flying a raw data ILS in the sim, there is very little difference between the two.
I have flown with both on line operations, in gusty crosswind conditions where you can certainly tell the difference. In fact one F/O who had come through the cadet program told me that they didn't consider that they could land at Ballina with a 15 kt crosswind from the LHS! Even a sim tech can fly a well flown raw data ILS in the simulator. There was another well known F/O whose mantra was "In my experience, experience doesn't count" The irony was they failed their command upgrade and left the company.
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