EBA negotiations...a hypothetical?
AIPA and the Eastern EA
Unlike the slow horses at AFAP too busy patting themselves on the back after signing up to an in principle agreement that discriminated against pilots with DHAA, It looks like AIPA after continued negotiations with the company have gained a valuable concession to allow an "Opt in system" for DHA or DHAA depending on the lifestyle choices of the pilot. Well Done AIPA for holding firm for what is in the best interest of ALL pilots.
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Is that the AIPA who’s Eastern rep went to RSA to help the company undercut Australian pilot’s terms and conditions by recruiting foreign pilots?
The timeless AIPA v AFAP argument is wasted time. Its not the name on the door (the door we fund, mind you) of the organisation that matters. It’s the people who sit on your council who will make a difference in the negotiations. Rather than splitting into two unions - which undermines your power….. Get a bunch of smart people together and replace the current dead wood with pilots who won’t just look out for themselves.
Make the company negotiate against people who can hold them to account - or even better, who aren’t too proud to call on a professional negotiator for help!
That’s how you will get change.
The timeless AIPA v AFAP argument is wasted time. Its not the name on the door (the door we fund, mind you) of the organisation that matters. It’s the people who sit on your council who will make a difference in the negotiations. Rather than splitting into two unions - which undermines your power….. Get a bunch of smart people together and replace the current dead wood with pilots who won’t just look out for themselves.
Make the company negotiate against people who can hold them to account - or even better, who aren’t too proud to call on a professional negotiator for help!
That’s how you will get change.
Roll Through...,
It's a pity that you've allowed your opinion to become so jaundiced by the ranting of a few angry old men (in the AFAP). It's also a pity that your opinion lacks a good measure of understanding. I guess you're just young.
Here are some verifiable facts:
1. Experienced Check and Training Pilots (not line plots) were sought from the RSA to maintain the operation. No C & T pilots = no line pilots = no operation.
2. Why was this necessary? There seems to be a lack of type-experienced C &T pilots here.
3. Why do I believe this? The perpetual E o I for C & T pilots that has been published internally for some time with little success.
4. Why little success? (and I'm sure this is the single point on which we will continue to disagree), because LIFESTYLE (not insufficient financial reward) is more important it seems, to our local qualified pilots that could be applying for those C & T positions.
Don't criticise the AIPA rep leader for going to the RSA in search of qualified pilots to sustain our operation. The same operation that now employs, trains, pays and enhances yours and your cohort's future employment opportunities. He did the same thing many years ago WITH THE AFAP's BLESSING after extensive mutual consultation between AFAP and management.
Why him and not someone else? Because he has had a long association with the RSA through many early-career flying years there and some ongoing connection.
In other words, please put away your knife and stop playing the man, because he's earned his stripes in this company and this industry and he deserves better treatment.
"Its not the name on the door (the door we fund, mind you) of the organisation that matters. It’s the people who sit on your council who will make a difference in the negotiations." "Get a bunch of smart people together and replace the current dead wood with pilots who won’t just look out for themselves."
On these points, you and I are in complete agreement. That's why, after decades of AFAP membership, I (and my smart-old-men cohort) voted with our feet and left for better pastures with AIPA. We had become so disillusioned by (and mistrusting of) the AFAP's divergence from its early values and beliefs. They have become a lazy organisation that's now top-heavy and with no real direction about promoting pilot interests - compare the size of their executive and management team to the number employed in AIPA...it's telling.
Why has this happened? Because the MBF is its enabler - lulling pilots into overlooking its bad behaviour during their career, through the promise of a sizeable nest-egg at the end of their career.
I understand your optimistic sentiment about unity and scale. Unfortunately, I'm old enough to know that it's a youthful pipe dream that won't ever be achieved - too many different personalities and too many different priorities out there. Best we can hope for is that the most number of people find benefit with the least amount of imbalance or inequality
I tried to stay on and to believe in the AFAP and even once tried to persuade their leadership into a realignment of their divergent path. That sage advice fell on deaf ears. They are too comfortable in their current culture.
I was around when AIPA split from the AFAP around 1980. Like you, I also thought the breakup was a selfish act by an elite group of self-interested pilots and that it would ultimately undermine pilot interests industrially. Fact is, it didn't. It just established 2 distinct groups of pilots that have different views on how things should be run - with the benefit of some years and a change in personal outlook, it was a perfectly reasonable and sensible democratic action to take.
I believe in a single representative body for all Qantas-group pilots - not because I'm a "Qantas Sky-God", (not even close flying a Dash 8 in regional ops!), but because I trust the organisation to promote and support my interests and to do so fairly and intelligently.
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Roll Through...,
It's a pity that you've allowed your opinion to become so jaundiced by the ranting of a few angry old men (in the AFAP). It's also a pity that your opinion lacks a good measure of understanding. I guess you're just young.
Here are some verifiable facts:
1. Experienced Check and Training Pilots (not line plots) were sought from the RSA to maintain the operation. No C & T pilots = no line pilots = no operation.
2. Why was this necessary? There seems to be a lack of type-experienced C &T pilots here.
3. Why do I believe this? The perpetual E o I for C & T pilots that has been published internally for some time with little success.
4. Why little success? (and I'm sure this is the single point on which we will continue to disagree), because LIFESTYLE (not insufficient financial reward) is more important it seems, to our local qualified pilots that could be applying for those C & T positions.
Don't criticise the AIPA rep leader for going to the RSA in search of qualified pilots to sustain our operation. The same operation that now employs, trains, pays and enhances yours and your cohort's future employment opportunities. He did the same thing many years ago WITH THE AFAP's BLESSING after extensive mutual consultation between AFAP and management.
Why him and not someone else? Because he has had a long association with the RSA through many early-career flying years there and some ongoing connection.
In other words, please put away your knife and stop playing the man, because he's earned his stripes in this company and this industry and he deserves better treatment.
It's a pity that you've allowed your opinion to become so jaundiced by the ranting of a few angry old men (in the AFAP). It's also a pity that your opinion lacks a good measure of understanding. I guess you're just young.
Here are some verifiable facts:
1. Experienced Check and Training Pilots (not line plots) were sought from the RSA to maintain the operation. No C & T pilots = no line pilots = no operation.
2. Why was this necessary? There seems to be a lack of type-experienced C &T pilots here.
3. Why do I believe this? The perpetual E o I for C & T pilots that has been published internally for some time with little success.
4. Why little success? (and I'm sure this is the single point on which we will continue to disagree), because LIFESTYLE (not insufficient financial reward) is more important it seems, to our local qualified pilots that could be applying for those C & T positions.
Don't criticise the AIPA rep leader for going to the RSA in search of qualified pilots to sustain our operation. The same operation that now employs, trains, pays and enhances yours and your cohort's future employment opportunities. He did the same thing many years ago WITH THE AFAP's BLESSING after extensive mutual consultation between AFAP and management.
Why him and not someone else? Because he has had a long association with the RSA through many early-career flying years there and some ongoing connection.
In other words, please put away your knife and stop playing the man, because he's earned his stripes in this company and this industry and he deserves better treatment.
Lifestyle is a big part of the conditions associated with a regional airline, so when we talk improving ‘conditions’ we are absolutely talking about lifestyle. I totally agree that a lack of training staff will put pressure on the company faster than any other position, especially when the company is bleeding pilots because it is not an employer of choice as a result of its poor conditions - you need to train hard when everyone starts leaving. The fact that the company was looking to RSA to fill those positions is telling on how much pressure they were under. This was a significant opportunity for the pilot group to exploit.
Instead of using the current position the company is in to the pilots advantage to improve both lifestyle and financial position, someone went overseas to help dig the company out of the position they have gotten themselves in. The company got themselves into that position by wearing down the conditions to the point that a C&T position (which should be a sort after position) is only attractive to pilots looking to escape South Africa. You have to agree that at best the trip is a bad look.
I’m sure he has a long association with RSA, and would have been really helpful for the company to make connections and find pilots in RSA - but that’s not the job of a union rep. His job is to represent the interests of the pilots he represents. This junket to RSA is not in the interests of the pilots. Telling me that ‘AFAP endorsed it last time’ isn’t a positive point for your case either….
Also, as an aside, it’s not just the financial and lifestyle side that stops people from becoming checkers and trainers at Qlink. The perception that was built by AY and his cronies that the best way to become a Qlink hostage is to put your hand up for a C&T role. You can watch your trainees get their start date at QF/JQ while you spend years training QFPP cadets to land in hot gusty conditions at LRE waiting for a start date in the next decade. How many time have you heard in the crew room ‘I’m not taking a command because I want to go to Mainline?” - C&T is no different. At least the last CP tried to fix this by making the releases more transparent - but I think there is still a big stink attached to C&T roles.
The EBA was released today. Thank you to every one who posted on the thread. It caught the attention of the negotiating team (despite them claming we are wrong) when we were given no formal feedback opportunties. The opt in for DHA vs DHAA is a good outcome that acknowledges different bases have different flying. Hopefully we finally get communication from the committee to understand their reasoning for the changes.
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The EBA was released today. Thank you to every one who posted on the thread. It caught the attention of the negotiating team (despite them claming we are wrong) when we were given no formal feedback opportunties. The opt in for DHA vs DHAA is a good outcome that acknowledges different bases have different flying. Hopefully we finally get communication from the committee to understand their reasoning for the changes.
The union reps have already begun their pounding of the chest everytime they step into the crewroom. No one even needs to ask how the negotiations are going, they'll tell you.
You can probably assume where my vote will be going. I understand most just want this sorted, as do I, however it also needs to be worthwhile. In its current state, I don't personally believe it is.
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It sounds like the DHA vs DHAA opt in was demanded by AIPA to get them on side and that has been passed on to our EBA.
Apparently AFAP were laser focussed on DHAA?
I wonder if the higher DHA rate will get the ADL crew across the line now?
Apparently AFAP were laser focussed on DHAA?
I wonder if the higher DHA rate will get the ADL crew across the line now?
The union reps are all “Link for Life”, it’s only fair that they are happy/chest beating at the new EBA. It’s probably fair that they have feathered their own nests - they will be in it for the rest of their careers and they’d want to have a good deal to turn up every day and fly with 250 hour pilots day in, day out.
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So I got to read the latest muscle flex AFAP sent the eastern pilots, someone showed it to me during tiday’s outung.
I’m bemused by their continued jabs at “the othe bargainig union”. So apparently at eastern they are frowning upon bargaining reps refusing to take the first offer on the table and continuing to bargain?
I’m bemused by their continued jabs at “the othe bargainig union”. So apparently at eastern they are frowning upon bargaining reps refusing to take the first offer on the table and continuing to bargain?
Only three pages after the whining about staying single union strong, was the new mainline council column asking to spread the word about switching over and getting numbers up…
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I’m sorry but to me it sounds like they had the guts not to hide in the shadows.
I didn’t see any of our reps up here explaining it all!
