View Poll Results: What will you vote?
Yes
9
15.79%
No
48
84.21%
Voters: 57. This poll is closed
VB's new EBA
Join Date: Sep 2002
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I truely hope they do improve. But realistically with a 3rd airline looming, I don't think DJ management is going to play ball.
My simple statement still remains, the guys should not have taken on the job with those conditions. It has set the standard for Australia.
Now unfortunately for anyone else who joins the 3rd airline when it come I'm sure they will get the same rap.
It is a shame. We do a very rewarding and difficult job at times being pilots, but when guys take low conditions what do you really expect?
Guys coming through the GA ranks now cannot look forward to the nice pay (appart from QF etc), but the joy of flying a jet is still their drive.
I understand however that there were a lot of guys who came from large airlines overseas to get home. And the majority of pilots at DJ could not get into QF, CX etc. So the fact of lower pay doesn't bother them at start of employment with DJ.
But if it never started that low perhaps Australia could have been immuned from the global problem of low paid pilots.
My simple statement still remains, the guys should not have taken on the job with those conditions. It has set the standard for Australia.
Now unfortunately for anyone else who joins the 3rd airline when it come I'm sure they will get the same rap.
It is a shame. We do a very rewarding and difficult job at times being pilots, but when guys take low conditions what do you really expect?
Guys coming through the GA ranks now cannot look forward to the nice pay (appart from QF etc), but the joy of flying a jet is still their drive.
I understand however that there were a lot of guys who came from large airlines overseas to get home. And the majority of pilots at DJ could not get into QF, CX etc. So the fact of lower pay doesn't bother them at start of employment with DJ.
But if it never started that low perhaps Australia could have been immuned from the global problem of low paid pilots.
Join Date: Feb 2002
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Don't flatter yourself 747 f/o....have you ever contemplated the thought that not everybody wants to work for Qantas. They are not the best carrier in the world my friend, only one of many airlines in the pacific region. Qf are very lucky to have inherited a debt free start, so I guess you wouldn't be so arrogant if all of a sudden QF had to restart as a low cost operation.
Just be thankful that you earn excellent wages [ as compared to most australians], and leave the DJ guys to get on with their world...
Oh just for the record, I have never applied to QF. !!
Just be thankful that you earn excellent wages [ as compared to most australians], and leave the DJ guys to get on with their world...
Oh just for the record, I have never applied to QF. !!
Join Date: Mar 2000
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747 F/O , Arent QF setting up Australian Airlines with "lower pay and conditions" right now. It is happening in your camp as well my friend , is your mainline operation next?
PUP , Lifestyle is my main issue with the proposed DJ EBA , nearly 1 month of overnights in 2 months is something that should be addressed but the document falls very short.
PUP , Lifestyle is my main issue with the proposed DJ EBA , nearly 1 month of overnights in 2 months is something that should be addressed but the document falls very short.
Join Date: Dec 2000
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QF have been involved with low cost operations that are, and will continue to, degrade future prospects for QF pilots for ages, long before Australian Airlines came on the scene, ie National Jet and Impulse. As long as it doesn't affect the 747-400 Captains, AIPA will do nothing!!
Join Date: Nov 2000
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1 month of overnights in 2!!!
Are all the pilots in DJ single? Or are they heading that way?
"Remember if the horse pulls the plough all day long, by the end of the week he doesn't want to do it anymore."
Are all the pilots in DJ single? Or are they heading that way?
"Remember if the horse pulls the plough all day long, by the end of the week he doesn't want to do it anymore."
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As well as a strong message about to be sent to VB management regarding lack of lifestyle and pathetic remuneration on the proposed EBA, there will be an equally strong message sent to the AFAP that they are on notice to do what they are being paid to do. That is to negotiate a reasonable deal for its paying members or face the consequences of a diminished membership base.
Join Date: Aug 2002
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50 Cal you are FULL OF IT!!!!
Never applied to QF what a load of it.
It is more likely you do not have the requirements to work for QF, or as I presume you failed your interview.
For someone to say they have not wanted to work for Qantas I think we all know is a lot of B/S.
You make me laugh. I bet you work for Virgin yourself and are all upset because you couldn't play with the big boys you looser.
Never applied to QF what a load of it.
It is more likely you do not have the requirements to work for QF, or as I presume you failed your interview.
For someone to say they have not wanted to work for Qantas I think we all know is a lot of B/S.
You make me laugh. I bet you work for Virgin yourself and are all upset because you couldn't play with the big boys you looser.
Grandpa Aerotart
Right side up,
There are a lot of us out here who have never and will never apply to QF...long haul is not a pleasant way to make a living...just ask someone who's been at it a while.
Oh and in case you're wondering whether i have what it takes to be, at least, interviewed..10000+hrs, 7000+ command multi(4000+ turbine), 3000+ jet, including command/C&T/International ops...so how about you stop dictating how people who probably have a lot more flying experience, let alone life experience, should think.
You sound like a wannabe who has not worked out the reality of this profession.
No insult intended to current, past or future QF pilots My dad was one until retirement in '87...so I know of what I speak.
As far as VB is concerned...notice how few people who actually work for them, if anyone, is complaining about pay?
Chuck.
There are a lot of us out here who have never and will never apply to QF...long haul is not a pleasant way to make a living...just ask someone who's been at it a while.
Oh and in case you're wondering whether i have what it takes to be, at least, interviewed..10000+hrs, 7000+ command multi(4000+ turbine), 3000+ jet, including command/C&T/International ops...so how about you stop dictating how people who probably have a lot more flying experience, let alone life experience, should think.
You sound like a wannabe who has not worked out the reality of this profession.
No insult intended to current, past or future QF pilots
My dad was one until retirement in '87...so I know of what I speak.As far as VB is concerned...notice how few people who actually work for them, if anyone, is complaining about pay?
Chuck.
Join Date: Jan 1999
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Chuck, I work for them. The pay sucks. However, as far as I'm concerned, lifestyle is the bigger issue. Not having a whinge as I knew what was on offer when I signed up, however, just wanted to let you know that our percieved silence on pay doesn't mean we're happy with it.
Grandpa Aerotart
Yep...but as you say lifestyle is more important...and far more subjective.
I would say, at a guess, that you'd be more impressed if they halved your overnights than if they increased your pay.
Chuck.
I would say, at a guess, that you'd be more impressed if they halved your overnights than if they increased your pay.
Chuck.
Don Quixote Impersonator
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Chuck
You took the words right out of my mouth
Having earned several PhDs from the UHKE I can attest that we all take directions in life for reasons that may make others with different aspirations shake their head in wonder.
I bailed out of Medicine several years in and knocked back a potential career in QF to the disbelief of many and might I say the short term disappointment of my family.
The reasons were well thought out, but I will admit in the harder times of my life that I might have happily reviewed them, but I have never ever regretted the results.
Way less than half my Med course are still practising, the others followed their dreams mostly in completely different areas, and, at the end of a long flight, I affirm that it wasn't for me, as someone who has the attention span of a gnat.
I have a very very great respect for the long haul pilots ability to stay "on the ball" professionally under those circumstances.
My personality type would almost certainly have gotten me into trouble of some sort of the other, out of sheer boredom.
And before every body gets into me about suggesting that long haul pilots are boring, read the above. It just requires a completely different type of person and a mindset than I possess.
People have always been my bag and that's the life I have followed, it's been good enough to educate my three children through private schools ( there went my 46' Bertram
) 
and uni and live a very comfortable lifestyle by any measure. Big and little risks, big and little failures and successes.
You only need a little more of one than the other, for it to go either way.
Risk is the nature of the beast.
If you wish to trade off some risk for some certainty, then it is axiomatic that the rewards will vary accordingly.
What's this got to do with an EBA.??
You can only make the best of opportunities that are presented to you and that you are able to create.
There are no others.
What could or should have been are simply that.
You have no "rights" to a particular life or job, life will serve up whatever and however it comes.
Becoming bitter about what you think you deserve or what might or could have been will only prove destructive to you and those around you.
We are all where we are because we are, we can only change that by accepting that as a starting point and move on from there.
We ALL have the option to sit on the pot or get off, we can make changes at the margin and within the bounds of what is possible, but not WHOLEsale ones without changing the WHOLE thing.
And then, we risk the WHOLE thing.
and that applies equally to QF and VB.
You took the words right out of my mouth
Having earned several PhDs from the UHKE I can attest that we all take directions in life for reasons that may make others with different aspirations shake their head in wonder.
I bailed out of Medicine several years in and knocked back a potential career in QF to the disbelief of many and might I say the short term disappointment of my family.
The reasons were well thought out, but I will admit in the harder times of my life that I might have happily reviewed them, but I have never ever regretted the results.
Way less than half my Med course are still practising, the others followed their dreams mostly in completely different areas, and, at the end of a long flight, I affirm that it wasn't for me, as someone who has the attention span of a gnat.
I have a very very great respect for the long haul pilots ability to stay "on the ball" professionally under those circumstances.
My personality type would almost certainly have gotten me into trouble of some sort of the other, out of sheer boredom.
And before every body gets into me about suggesting that long haul pilots are boring, read the above. It just requires a completely different type of person and a mindset than I possess.
People have always been my bag and that's the life I have followed, it's been good enough to educate my three children through private schools ( there went my 46' Bertram
) and uni and live a very comfortable lifestyle by any measure. Big and little risks, big and little failures and successes. You only need a little more of one than the other, for it to go either way.
Risk is the nature of the beast.
If you wish to trade off some risk for some certainty, then it is axiomatic that the rewards will vary accordingly.
What's this got to do with an EBA.??
You can only make the best of opportunities that are presented to you and that you are able to create.
There are no others.
What could or should have been are simply that.
You have no "rights" to a particular life or job, life will serve up whatever and however it comes.
Becoming bitter about what you think you deserve or what might or could have been will only prove destructive to you and those around you.
We are all where we are because we are, we can only change that by accepting that as a starting point and move on from there.
We ALL have the option to sit on the pot or get off, we can make changes at the margin and within the bounds of what is possible, but not WHOLEsale ones without changing the WHOLE thing.
And then, we risk the WHOLE thing.
and that applies equally to QF and VB.
Last edited by gaunty; 12th Sep 2002 at 06:32.
Join Date: Aug 2002
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Questions?
1. PAY INCREASE : If the problem with SACL is a non documented handshake deal then is it not the same for crew ie pay increase after company establishment and a rosy looking future
? Lets get the crew "divide and conquer worked in 89" ??????
2. BASEINGS : If the problem with SACL is a non documented handshake deal then is it not the same for crew ie basings in Melb. after company establishment and a rosy looking future
? Lets get the crew "divide and conquer worked in 89" ??????
3. LIFESTYLE : Everybody craves lifestyle (other than right sideup who must love ST Kilda, The Cross and San Fran.). why is it that the VB takes 12 months to implement a new roster system yet can spend $$$$ on a birthday party, new a/c and new terminals.
? Lets get the crew "divide and conquer worked in 89" ??????
4. ROSTERING: why is it that the poor overworked rostering staff keep getting shafted. They are not allowed vistors now because that might distract them. The rosters are stuffed because managment keep moving the gold (sorry goal) posts.
? Lets get the crew "divide and conquer worked in 89" ??????
5. OVERNIGHTS: Why is it that crew who want to go to home bases never seem to overnight there????
? Lets get the crew "divide and conquer worked in 89" ??????
6. CALL OUTS: Why is rostering asking someone to work on their last day of annual leave and when the pilot refuses beacuse of prior commitments, a note is made on geneva that he/she refuses to work on a day off.
? Lets get the crew "divide and conquer worked in 89" ??????
7. BASES: At a pilots forum 12 months ago everybody was told to expect a new base by the time VB had 28 a/c. guess what VB now has 28 and not even a pinch or whiff of new bases.
? Lets get the crew "divide and conquer worked in 89" ??????
So there you go this is not about airing dirty laundry, I suggest that those of you who work for VB not pay any attention to the negative idiot posts here by the well payed and ill informed.
I never applied to Ansett or Qantas purely based on the facts and education by 89ers. Yes right side up I was well qualified.
So in every war there are always intellegence units on both sides. In this war VB has three generals with previous trench and fox hole experiance, that they now direct artilliary needs to be remembered.
If anyone at VB needs further reading I suggest
Meloz and 89
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthr...threadid=66062
Oh and one last question is it true that the 73-800's of qantas are now limited to 300kt
1. PAY INCREASE : If the problem with SACL is a non documented handshake deal then is it not the same for crew ie pay increase after company establishment and a rosy looking future
? Lets get the crew "divide and conquer worked in 89" ??????
2. BASEINGS : If the problem with SACL is a non documented handshake deal then is it not the same for crew ie basings in Melb. after company establishment and a rosy looking future
? Lets get the crew "divide and conquer worked in 89" ??????
3. LIFESTYLE : Everybody craves lifestyle (other than right sideup who must love ST Kilda, The Cross and San Fran.). why is it that the VB takes 12 months to implement a new roster system yet can spend $$$$ on a birthday party, new a/c and new terminals.
? Lets get the crew "divide and conquer worked in 89" ??????
4. ROSTERING: why is it that the poor overworked rostering staff keep getting shafted. They are not allowed vistors now because that might distract them. The rosters are stuffed because managment keep moving the gold (sorry goal) posts.
? Lets get the crew "divide and conquer worked in 89" ??????
5. OVERNIGHTS: Why is it that crew who want to go to home bases never seem to overnight there????
? Lets get the crew "divide and conquer worked in 89" ??????
6. CALL OUTS: Why is rostering asking someone to work on their last day of annual leave and when the pilot refuses beacuse of prior commitments, a note is made on geneva that he/she refuses to work on a day off.
? Lets get the crew "divide and conquer worked in 89" ??????
7. BASES: At a pilots forum 12 months ago everybody was told to expect a new base by the time VB had 28 a/c. guess what VB now has 28 and not even a pinch or whiff of new bases.
? Lets get the crew "divide and conquer worked in 89" ??????
So there you go this is not about airing dirty laundry, I suggest that those of you who work for VB not pay any attention to the negative idiot posts here by the well payed and ill informed.
I never applied to Ansett or Qantas purely based on the facts and education by 89ers. Yes right side up I was well qualified.
So in every war there are always intellegence units on both sides. In this war VB has three generals with previous trench and fox hole experiance, that they now direct artilliary needs to be remembered.
If anyone at VB needs further reading I suggest
Meloz and 89
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthr...threadid=66062
Oh and one last question is it true that the 73-800's of qantas are now limited to 300kt
Interceptor, the AFAP is only going to be as effective and stong as the commitment and input of all its members. Its only by DJ pilots giving an input into the Feds (or any other organisation) that changes can be achieved. As "tightcannon" says "Divide and conquer" is an effective management tool.
However, I suspect that a lot of newer guys are relectant to be noticed, by the "Valley Castle", taking a stand here. While this EBA states grounds for dismissal, etc, its so easy to forget the basic rights of every worker in this country of three written warnings, before dismissal. Also the right to challenge every warning, with some representative present when asked to "please explain".
As for the EBA, yes I to was hoping the money would improve, but all that is being offered is to give up the protection of ano 48 and embrace the excemption for a CPI increase. But somehow I don't see that (the excemption) reducing the rediculious high number of nights away from home (for a domestic operation that is).
However, I suspect that a lot of newer guys are relectant to be noticed, by the "Valley Castle", taking a stand here. While this EBA states grounds for dismissal, etc, its so easy to forget the basic rights of every worker in this country of three written warnings, before dismissal. Also the right to challenge every warning, with some representative present when asked to "please explain".
As for the EBA, yes I to was hoping the money would improve, but all that is being offered is to give up the protection of ano 48 and embrace the excemption for a CPI increase. But somehow I don't see that (the excemption) reducing the rediculious high number of nights away from home (for a domestic operation that is).
Join Date: Apr 2002
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CAO 48 exemption equals at least a ten percent pay rise. Don't get sucked in like the Ansett wallies who took two percent for the exemption. With the exemption, the company makes enormous financial gains.
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________________________________________
There are a lot of us out here who have never and will never apply to QF...long haul is not a pleasant way to make a living...just ask someone who's been at it a while.
________________________________________
hello? heard of shorthaul?
There are a lot of us out here who have never and will never apply to QF...long haul is not a pleasant way to make a living...just ask someone who's been at it a while.
________________________________________
hello? heard of shorthaul?
Join Date: Jun 2001
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Chimbu Chuckles quite a sweeping statement, it's horses for courses..... some like long haul and others prefer short haul.
Having done quite a bit of both, I prefer long haul.
Having done quite a bit of both, I prefer long haul.