Joyce ‘retires’ early 👍
4) Do you not read the room then applaud the Finnair Wetlease as an “amazing opportunity”?
Rather than projecting your angst - can we debate this on the same playing field.
1) Do you work for Qantas?
2) In an operational field?
3) How long for?
I'd suggest that most on this site have 20+ years and have seen all comers. Hence the perception you have of animosity.
Al Pacino - 'We've been around - y'know!'
1) Do you work for Qantas?
2) In an operational field?
3) How long for?
I'd suggest that most on this site have 20+ years and have seen all comers. Hence the perception you have of animosity.
Al Pacino - 'We've been around - y'know!'
FOR JAMIEMAREE[img]data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7[/img]
Terry McCrann2 min read
October 30, 2023 - 5:35PMThe Australian Business Network
ACCC chair Gina Cass-Gottlieb.Good. Qantas is taking on what is increasingly looking like a rogue regulator in the ACCC.
Two questions spring to mind from Qantas’s spirited response to the ACCC attack, which is alleging quite knows what. But whatever it is, it’s terrible and Qantas should be whacked with a $250m fine.
First, where are the victims? Indeed, where is the victim, singular?
The ACCC says Qantas sold tickets for flights it had already cancelled – suggesting some sort of wicked attempt at a replay of the banks’ ‘fees for no service’.
Qantas says 100 per cent of impacted domestic passengers were offered alternative same-day flights departing within one hour of, or even indeed prior to the cancelled flight.
Oh my God; I was booked on a plane scheduled to depart at 11.10. I demand I get on that plane at exactly that time.
And I know a rogue regulator that will refocus resources to nail down and fight my case!
Note the number, and in these computerised days, I’m guessing that Qantas can substantiate it.
It’s 100 per cent. Not 99 per cent or even 99.9 per cent. But 100 per cent.
Every alleged ‘victim’, as claimed by the ACCC, got offered an all-but exact alternative – and, not exactly incidentally, mostly got offered that alternative well before the actual flight date. Or could have taken a full refund.
Yes, it was less impressive with international. Only 98 per cent of so-affected passengers were offered flights and, in their case, only within a day (not an hour) of their scheduled departure.
But again also, or a full refund; and again, mostly well in time, so they could make alternative arrangements.
The core point of course, is why did Qantas do any of this - continuing to list flights for sale that it had already decided it would have to cancel?
A little event called Covid.
Where Qantas was battered more than any other business in Australia, and arguably indeed more than any other airline around the world.
Then, just as it was trying to get back into business – restarting the fleet, getting its workers back on the job - it runs into Omicron.
You know, the reiteration of Covid that the Vaccine was supposed to have rendered impossible to transmit.
But nevertheless, managed to take out 10, 20 per cent of Qantas flight crews.
Yes, Qantas could have cancelled all those flights, weeks, months ahead - throwing travel plans into chaos.
It chose not to, and as its figures show, it managed to largely deliver – getting almost all those ‘victims’ onto satisfactorily alternative flights.
You got some ludicrous commentary Monday, that Qantas had previously handled ash clouds and bird flu, so its claim that Omicron was “unusual” was
Does the idiot that wrote that, actually remember what happened with Covid? Obviously not; they must have been living in a bubble.
The second question, given the ACCC’s equally rogue behaviour over the ANZ-Suncorp merger, is whether chairman Gina Cass-Gottlieb, is driving this out-of-control bus?
Or is she allowing herself to be driven by no-nothing activist underlings
The ACCC is getting too big for its boots, with Qantas right to take it on
Qantas has entirely plausible explanations for the so-called ‘ghost flights’ it’s being pilloried for, and the ACCC should stand down.Terry McCrann2 min readOctober 30, 2023 - 5:35PMThe Australian Business Network
ACCC chair Gina Cass-Gottlieb.Good. Qantas is taking on what is increasingly looking like a rogue regulator in the ACCC.Two questions spring to mind from Qantas’s spirited response to the ACCC attack, which is alleging quite knows what. But whatever it is, it’s terrible and Qantas should be whacked with a $250m fine.
First, where are the victims? Indeed, where is the victim, singular?
The ACCC says Qantas sold tickets for flights it had already cancelled – suggesting some sort of wicked attempt at a replay of the banks’ ‘fees for no service’.
Qantas says 100 per cent of impacted domestic passengers were offered alternative same-day flights departing within one hour of, or even indeed prior to the cancelled flight.
Oh my God; I was booked on a plane scheduled to depart at 11.10. I demand I get on that plane at exactly that time.
And I know a rogue regulator that will refocus resources to nail down and fight my case!
Note the number, and in these computerised days, I’m guessing that Qantas can substantiate it.
It’s 100 per cent. Not 99 per cent or even 99.9 per cent. But 100 per cent.
Every alleged ‘victim’, as claimed by the ACCC, got offered an all-but exact alternative – and, not exactly incidentally, mostly got offered that alternative well before the actual flight date. Or could have taken a full refund.
Yes, it was less impressive with international. Only 98 per cent of so-affected passengers were offered flights and, in their case, only within a day (not an hour) of their scheduled departure.
But again also, or a full refund; and again, mostly well in time, so they could make alternative arrangements.
The core point of course, is why did Qantas do any of this - continuing to list flights for sale that it had already decided it would have to cancel?
A little event called Covid.
Where Qantas was battered more than any other business in Australia, and arguably indeed more than any other airline around the world.
Then, just as it was trying to get back into business – restarting the fleet, getting its workers back on the job - it runs into Omicron.
You know, the reiteration of Covid that the Vaccine was supposed to have rendered impossible to transmit.
But nevertheless, managed to take out 10, 20 per cent of Qantas flight crews.
Yes, Qantas could have cancelled all those flights, weeks, months ahead - throwing travel plans into chaos.
It chose not to, and as its figures show, it managed to largely deliver – getting almost all those ‘victims’ onto satisfactorily alternative flights.
You got some ludicrous commentary Monday, that Qantas had previously handled ash clouds and bird flu, so its claim that Omicron was “unusual” was
Does the idiot that wrote that, actually remember what happened with Covid? Obviously not; they must have been living in a bubble.
The second question, given the ACCC’s equally rogue behaviour over the ANZ-Suncorp merger, is whether chairman Gina Cass-Gottlieb, is driving this out-of-control bus?
Or is she allowing herself to be driven by no-nothing activist underlings
FOR JAMIEMAREE[img]data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7[/img]
Terry McCrann2 min read
October 30, 2023 - 5:35PMThe Australian Business NetworkACCC chair Gina Cass-Gottlieb.Good. Qantas is taking on what is increasingly looking like a rogue regulator in the ACCC.
Two questions spring to mind from Qantas’s spirited response to the ACCC attack, which is alleging quite knows what. But whatever it is, it’s terrible and Qantas should be whacked with a $250m fine.
First, where are the victims? Indeed, where is the victim, singular?
The ACCC says Qantas sold tickets for flights it had already cancelled – suggesting some sort of wicked attempt at a replay of the banks’ ‘fees for no service’.
Qantas says 100 per cent of impacted domestic passengers were offered alternative same-day flights departing within one hour of, or even indeed prior to the cancelled flight.
Oh my God; I was booked on a plane scheduled to depart at 11.10. I demand I get on that plane at exactly that time.
And I know a rogue regulator that will refocus resources to nail down and fight my case!
Note the number, and in these computerised days, I’m guessing that Qantas can substantiate it.
It’s 100 per cent. Not 99 per cent or even 99.9 per cent. But 100 per cent.
Every alleged ‘victim’, as claimed by the ACCC, got offered an all-but exact alternative – and, not exactly incidentally, mostly got offered that alternative well before the actual flight date. Or could have taken a full refund.
Yes, it was less impressive with international. Only 98 per cent of so-affected passengers were offered flights and, in their case, only within a day (not an hour) of their scheduled departure.
But again also, or a full refund; and again, mostly well in time, so they could make alternative arrangements.
The core point of course, is why did Qantas do any of this - continuing to list flights for sale that it had already decided it would have to cancel?
A little event called Covid.
Where Qantas was battered more than any other business in Australia, and arguably indeed more than any other airline around the world.
Then, just as it was trying to get back into business – restarting the fleet, getting its workers back on the job - it runs into Omicron.
You know, the reiteration of Covid that the Vaccine was supposed to have rendered impossible to transmit.
But nevertheless, managed to take out 10, 20 per cent of Qantas flight crews.
Yes, Qantas could have cancelled all those flights, weeks, months ahead - throwing travel plans into chaos.
It chose not to, and as its figures show, it managed to largely deliver – getting almost all those ‘victims’ onto satisfactorily alternative flights.
You got some ludicrous commentary Monday, that Qantas had previously handled ash clouds and bird flu, so its claim that Omicron was “unusual” was
Does the idiot that wrote that, actually remember what happened with Covid? Obviously not; they must have been living in a bubble.
The second question, given the ACCC’s equally rogue behaviour over the ANZ-Suncorp merger, is whether chairman Gina Cass-Gottlieb, is driving this out-of-control bus?
Or is she allowing herself to be driven by no-nothing activist underlings
The ACCC is getting too big for its boots, with Qantas right to take it on
Qantas has entirely plausible explanations for the so-called ‘ghost flights’ it’s being pilloried for, and the ACCC should stand down.Terry McCrann2 min readOctober 30, 2023 - 5:35PMThe Australian Business Network
ACCC chair Gina Cass-Gottlieb.Good. Qantas is taking on what is increasingly looking like a rogue regulator in the ACCC.Two questions spring to mind from Qantas’s spirited response to the ACCC attack, which is alleging quite knows what. But whatever it is, it’s terrible and Qantas should be whacked with a $250m fine.
First, where are the victims? Indeed, where is the victim, singular?
The ACCC says Qantas sold tickets for flights it had already cancelled – suggesting some sort of wicked attempt at a replay of the banks’ ‘fees for no service’.
Qantas says 100 per cent of impacted domestic passengers were offered alternative same-day flights departing within one hour of, or even indeed prior to the cancelled flight.
Oh my God; I was booked on a plane scheduled to depart at 11.10. I demand I get on that plane at exactly that time.
And I know a rogue regulator that will refocus resources to nail down and fight my case!
Note the number, and in these computerised days, I’m guessing that Qantas can substantiate it.
It’s 100 per cent. Not 99 per cent or even 99.9 per cent. But 100 per cent.
Every alleged ‘victim’, as claimed by the ACCC, got offered an all-but exact alternative – and, not exactly incidentally, mostly got offered that alternative well before the actual flight date. Or could have taken a full refund.
Yes, it was less impressive with international. Only 98 per cent of so-affected passengers were offered flights and, in their case, only within a day (not an hour) of their scheduled departure.
But again also, or a full refund; and again, mostly well in time, so they could make alternative arrangements.
The core point of course, is why did Qantas do any of this - continuing to list flights for sale that it had already decided it would have to cancel?
A little event called Covid.
Where Qantas was battered more than any other business in Australia, and arguably indeed more than any other airline around the world.
Then, just as it was trying to get back into business – restarting the fleet, getting its workers back on the job - it runs into Omicron.
You know, the reiteration of Covid that the Vaccine was supposed to have rendered impossible to transmit.
But nevertheless, managed to take out 10, 20 per cent of Qantas flight crews.
Yes, Qantas could have cancelled all those flights, weeks, months ahead - throwing travel plans into chaos.
It chose not to, and as its figures show, it managed to largely deliver – getting almost all those ‘victims’ onto satisfactorily alternative flights.
You got some ludicrous commentary Monday, that Qantas had previously handled ash clouds and bird flu, so its claim that Omicron was “unusual” was
Does the idiot that wrote that, actually remember what happened with Covid? Obviously not; they must have been living in a bubble.
The second question, given the ACCC’s equally rogue behaviour over the ANZ-Suncorp merger, is whether chairman Gina Cass-Gottlieb, is driving this out-of-control bus?
Or is she allowing herself to be driven by no-nothing activist underlings
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So QF had flights listed on the web as departing on a certain day at a certain time.
I check the other carriers, but I book QF because the flight suited my travel requirements. I
Unbeknown to me, that flight was already cancelled.
I get a call saying that my flight has been cancelled and I am offered an alternative flight.
Am I offered a refund?
But I am offered a flight at a different time.
Do I ask for a refund and look for flight with another carrier - Sorry none available that will fit with my travel arrangements.
So I am trapped with QF. They have my money so I accept their offer of an alternative flight.
If the flight that I originally booked on was a "ghost flight" I hope that the ACCC does it job.
I have seen spin before but that statement takes the cake.
I check the other carriers, but I book QF because the flight suited my travel requirements. I
Unbeknown to me, that flight was already cancelled.
I get a call saying that my flight has been cancelled and I am offered an alternative flight.
Am I offered a refund?
But I am offered a flight at a different time.
Do I ask for a refund and look for flight with another carrier - Sorry none available that will fit with my travel arrangements.
So I am trapped with QF. They have my money so I accept their offer of an alternative flight.
If the flight that I originally booked on was a "ghost flight" I hope that the ACCC does it job.
Qantas claimed that customers are not buying a specific flight when they book to travel but instead a "bundle of rights" to fly, while it has blamed its booking systems for selling trips it had already cancelled.
So did McCrann, who is allegedly a business journalist, not have a problem with Qantas declaring a billion dollar profit of which half was made up of money stolen from passengers because of a "little thing called COVID."?
One for jamiemarry-
Opinion / Business
BERNARD KEANE
OCT 31, 2023
3
Share
(IMAGE: AP/MARK BAKER)Rather than a dry-as-dust legal document in response to the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission’s charges of knowingly selling tickets to cancelled “ghost flights”, Qantas has surprised us all with a spirited, breezy “Five Fun Facts You Didn’t Know”-style defence in the Federal Court backed up with a fun FAQ.
Here’s a quick guide to this amazing trivia we bet you didn’t know when you bought a ticket for your Qantas flight.
“While Qantas will do its best to get consumers where they want to be on time, it does not guarantee particular flight times or its flight schedules.” In fact, we don’t even promise to make “reasonable endeavours to operate any particular flight”.
We know what’s best for you and your travel plans, thanks — not that you can legally rely on us for your travel plans.
“Qantas did not represent to consumers that the ‘Manage Booking’ page would, at all times, necessarily reflect the latest scheduling decisions that Qantas had made.”
So when we cancel your flight nebulous bundle of contractual obligations, we left it on our website so you could have fun pretending to manage details like booking a seat or ordering a meal. None of it had an actual result, but we like to think it made you feel better while you did it. Yet again, we’re thinking of you!
Fortunately, however, our IT system was still working sufficiently well to take your money when you booked that “flight” you thought you were booking. So don’t worry, the important part of the system was working just fine.
“Some of the longer delays were due to human error and process failures.” Yep, our bloody workers! Sigh. But rest assured we’re closely examining sacking them and outsourcing their jobs.
So you may think we have been caught red-handed flogging ghost flights, full well knowing they were never going to fly, misleading customers and ruining the travel plans of thousands of people who relied on us. But that’s on you if you were silly enough to think you were actually booking a flight, or that we were even promising to do our best to operate that flight. And if you’re dumb enough to think you know better than us about when we should tell you we’ve ruined your holiday, more fool you. Don’t like it? **** you and fly with someone else.
Has Qantas blown its last chance for you? Let us know by writing to [email protected]. Please include your full name to be considered for publication. We reserve the right to edit for length and clarity.
Bernard Keane
POLITICS EDITOR @BERNARDKEANE
Bernard Keane is Crikey's political editor. Before that he was Crikey's Canberra press gallery correspondent, covering politics, national security and economics.
Opinion / Business
Qantas reveals five amazing facts you didn’t know about your flight!
You think it's our fault that we sold many thousands of flights we never intended to operate? Actually it's yours. And our workers'.BERNARD KEANE
OCT 31, 2023
3
Share
(IMAGE: AP/MARK BAKER)Rather than a dry-as-dust legal document in response to the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission’s charges of knowingly selling tickets to cancelled “ghost flights”, Qantas has surprised us all with a spirited, breezy “Five Fun Facts You Didn’t Know”-style defence in the Federal Court backed up with a fun FAQ. Here’s a quick guide to this amazing trivia we bet you didn’t know when you bought a ticket for your Qantas flight.
Fun fact 1: You did not buy a ticket for your flight!
Qantas directors loitering in Chairman’s Lounge when they should be booted out
Read MoreYou may think you bought a ticket for a flight. You may have received from Qantas a ticket for a flight. But the “service” that Qantas supplies is not carriage on any “particular flight” but rather a bundle of rights. Yes, hope you sought legal advice before clicking “buy” on the Qantas site, and don’t leave your lawyer at home when you travel, because what you actually purchased was a vague set of contractual obligations that are pretty much unrelated to what you think you bought.“While Qantas will do its best to get consumers where they want to be on time, it does not guarantee particular flight times or its flight schedules.” In fact, we don’t even promise to make “reasonable endeavours to operate any particular flight”.
Fun fact 2: We won’t upset you by telling you we cancelled your flight!
So that flight you thought you bought a ticket on? Turns out we cancelled it. Yeah, we cancelled it even before we sold you your nebulous bundle of contractual obligations. But we didn’t tell you because we didn’t want to upset you! If we’d told people their flights nebulous bundle of contractual obligations had been cancelled, “we believe this would have resulted in a significantly more frustrating customer experience. If we had sent texts to thousands of customers a week saying their flight had been cancelled and we would get back to them on their alternative flight options, we would have created a lot of needless uncertainty for those customers.”We know what’s best for you and your travel plans, thanks — not that you can legally rely on us for your travel plans.
Fun fact 3: That ‘Manage Booking’ thing is a kind of in-joke, not a useful tool for you
Heh heh. So, you know those “close doors” buttons in elevators that don’t work? Or the pedestrian crossing buttons that don’t do anything? That’s kinda what our “Manage Booking” feature is.“Qantas did not represent to consumers that the ‘Manage Booking’ page would, at all times, necessarily reflect the latest scheduling decisions that Qantas had made.”
So when we cancel your flight nebulous bundle of contractual obligations, we left it on our website so you could have fun pretending to manage details like booking a seat or ordering a meal. None of it had an actual result, but we like to think it made you feel better while you did it. Yet again, we’re thinking of you!
Fun fact 4: Our IT systems are ****, but luckily we can still take your money!
Turns out we were so rubbish that we overloaded our own systems… Oops! Yes, we were cancelling so many flights nebulous bundles of contractual obligations that “system limitations” meant we couldn’t actually take flights off our site. Nothing to do with earning interest on your money while we held it for the days, weeks and months before handing it back to you, or so we could hoard airports slots to prevent competitors from offering their flights. No, we were just so bad our IT system couldn’t hack it.Fortunately, however, our IT system was still working sufficiently well to take your money when you booked that “flight” you thought you were booking. So don’t worry, the important part of the system was working just fine.
Fun fact 5: Our awful workers are to blame, yet again
From Qantas to PwC, corporate greed is rotting Australia from the inside out
Read MoreQantas is the real victim here. As happened so often when the corporate genius of the age, Alan Joyce, was in charge, Qantas was hit hard by bad luck, bad customers and bad workers. It wasn’t our fault that we illegally sacked 1,700 workers — that was a sound commercial decision. It wasn’t our fault that there were huge delays when we restarted services after the pandemic — customers weren’t “match fit”! It wasn’t our fault that we routinely cancelled nebulous bundles of obligations and sprayed your luggage all across the country. And it wasn’t our fault that we left all those cancelled “flights” on sale.“Some of the longer delays were due to human error and process failures.” Yep, our bloody workers! Sigh. But rest assured we’re closely examining sacking them and outsourcing their jobs.
So you may think we have been caught red-handed flogging ghost flights, full well knowing they were never going to fly, misleading customers and ruining the travel plans of thousands of people who relied on us. But that’s on you if you were silly enough to think you were actually booking a flight, or that we were even promising to do our best to operate that flight. And if you’re dumb enough to think you know better than us about when we should tell you we’ve ruined your holiday, more fool you. Don’t like it? **** you and fly with someone else.
Has Qantas blown its last chance for you? Let us know by writing to [email protected]. Please include your full name to be considered for publication. We reserve the right to edit for length and clarity.
ABOUT THE AUTHOR
Bernard KeanePOLITICS EDITOR @BERNARDKEANE
Bernard Keane is Crikey's political editor. Before that he was Crikey's Canberra press gallery correspondent, covering politics, national security and economics.
The following 10 users liked this post by standard unit:
The press is appalling they keep calling Qantas out why don’t they focus on the good stuff like ……..
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One for jamiemarry-
Opinion / Business
BERNARD KEANE
OCT 31, 2023
3
Share(IMAGE: AP/MARK BAKER)Rather than a dry-as-dust legal document in response to the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission’s charges of knowingly selling tickets to cancelled “ghost flights”, Qantas has surprised us all with a spirited, breezy “Five Fun Facts You Didn’t Know”-style defence in the Federal Court backed up with a fun FAQ.
Here’s a quick guide to this amazing trivia we bet you didn’t know when you bought a ticket for your Qantas flight.
“While Qantas will do its best to get consumers where they want to be on time, it does not guarantee particular flight times or its flight schedules.” In fact, we don’t even promise to make “reasonable endeavours to operate any particular flight”…..
Opinion / Business
Qantas reveals five amazing facts you didn’t know about your flight!
You think it's our fault that we sold many thousands of flights we never intended to operate? Actually it's yours. And our workers'.BERNARD KEANE
OCT 31, 2023
3
Share
(IMAGE: AP/MARK BAKER)Rather than a dry-as-dust legal document in response to the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission’s charges of knowingly selling tickets to cancelled “ghost flights”, Qantas has surprised us all with a spirited, breezy “Five Fun Facts You Didn’t Know”-style defence in the Federal Court backed up with a fun FAQ.Here’s a quick guide to this amazing trivia we bet you didn’t know when you bought a ticket for your Qantas flight.
Fun fact 1: You did not buy a ticket for your flight!
Qantas directors loitering in Chairman’s Lounge when they should be booted out
Read MoreYou may think you bought a ticket for a flight. You may have received from Qantas a ticket for a flight. But the “service” that Qantas supplies is not carriage on any “particular flight” but rather a bundle of rights. Yes, hope you sought legal advice before clicking “buy” on the Qantas site, and don’t leave your lawyer at home when you travel, because what you actually purchased was a vague set of contractual obligations that are pretty much unrelated to what you think you bought.“While Qantas will do its best to get consumers where they want to be on time, it does not guarantee particular flight times or its flight schedules.” In fact, we don’t even promise to make “reasonable endeavours to operate any particular flight”…..
Bernard Keane
It may be helpful to summarise that everything Qantas does to its customers, staff, shareholders, senate inquiries etc, is done in bad faith. Any actual product delivery is only accomplished when it is not counter to the company’s needs.
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Asked by Victorian Labor senator Linda White whether Qantas’s attitude to its cost base applied to executives’ salaries, Safe replied executives didn’t enjoy some of the same protections staff on enterprise agreements did, including redundancy pay, prompting laughter.
“Asked by Victorian Labor senator Linda White whether Qantas’s attitude to its cost base applied to executives’ salaries, Safe replied executives didn’t enjoy some of the same protections staff on enterprise agreements did, including redundancy pay, prompting laughter.”
Proving once again that you don’t need a long neck and feathers to be a goose
Proving once again that you don’t need a long neck and feathers to be a goose
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short flights long nights
“Asked by Victorian Labor senator Linda White whether Qantas’s attitude to its cost base applied to executives’ salaries, Safe replied executives didn’t enjoy some of the same protections staff on enterprise agreements did, including redundancy pay, prompting laughter.”
Proving once again that you don’t need a long neck and feathers to be a goose
Proving once again that you don’t need a long neck and feathers to be a goose
The following 6 users liked this post by SOPS:
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Asked by Victorian Labor senator Linda White whether Qantas’s attitude to its cost base applied to executives’ salaries, Safe replied executives didn’t enjoy some of the same protections staff on enterprise agreements did, including redundancy pay, prompting laughter.
TAKING THE PISS
Who benefitted from the so-called excessive salaries whilst he was a line pilot.