Virgin pilots
So you think it is acceptable to be continually pushed to the limit, physically, mentally and financially and to just accept it and never push back? No wonder this country is f**ked! I honestly give up, the fact that the likes of you exist with the current events unfolding is surreal. All I am saying is push back just as hard until they wakeup, and if they can't wake up, well then force them into the ground, because if they had their way, we would all be getting more paycuts! WTFU!
Tired/Fatigued??? Walk off the a/c, its your duty!! Simples.
Mentally??? Get support if you need it. I did. Take leave. Do something to take ownership for your own health.
Financially?? Well without knowing your financial circumstances it’s hard to comment. I can only can say the wages for a pilots in general in Australia are way above the “living” and “average” Australian wages!!!
Also, read the package. Look at the sums. There's a pay rise there.
Last edited by Biatch; 13th Apr 2024 at 04:43.
What should have been happening for many many years and what needs to happen this time is the Unions that pilots employee to do their job.
Unfortunately the AFAP has endorsed this terrible EA , Christ they are so weak and completely useless once again.
Unfortunately the only hope is the TWU stepping up . Otherwise the company once again is laughing all the way to the bank.
This EA in a nut shell means we get the same pay as 2019 some 5 yrs ago on less days off and working far more hrs.
How in hell can any right minded Pilot agree to this .
Unfortunately the AFAP has endorsed this terrible EA , Christ they are so weak and completely useless once again.
Unfortunately the only hope is the TWU stepping up . Otherwise the company once again is laughing all the way to the bank.
This EA in a nut shell means we get the same pay as 2019 some 5 yrs ago on less days off and working far more hrs.
How in hell can any right minded Pilot agree to this .
Last edited by chookcooker; 13th Apr 2024 at 05:19.
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: I'veBeenEverywhereMan
Posts: 198
Likes: 0
Received 10 Likes
on
5 Posts
Don’t forget they have also agreed for the available leave slots to be reduced to 7.5% over Christmas etc. along with the less DDOS.
so guaranteed less Chance to be off over Christmas and school holidays.
(that’s not emotive that’s fact.)
once again. Don’t under value yourselves!!!
so guaranteed less Chance to be off over Christmas and school holidays.
(that’s not emotive that’s fact.)
once again. Don’t under value yourselves!!!
The following 2 users liked this post by SilverSleuth:
And we are not paid as professionals so why act as one?
My friend I agree with some of your sentiments but you seem very angry. Go and find a friend to talk to, seriously. Take care of yourself.
And the general public, couldn't give a **** about tens of thousands of airline staff during covid, so why should we give a ****, when all they care about is the cheapest fare, anyway management have convinced the general public that flying a plane is easier than driving a bus, so you know what f**kem, if its that easy they can fly themselves while we are all on strike!
There are better ways to make your point is all I'm saying.
It sounds like you are 'holding on to tight' [sic](apologies Top Gun), time to disengage.....
The following users liked this post:
… “alluded” to; “too” tight …
You’re welcome.
You’re welcome.
The following users liked this post:
The following users liked this post:
PIA then. Easy
You keep saying this. In multiple threads. And seem to be excited at some sort of fanciful idea that the entire aviation industry will go on strike together. This is not something that is achievable under Australian IR legislations.
PIA is not something to just be tossed around. It’s a tool for employees to use if bargaining is not progressing. It also can have serious consequences. Now clearly in Virgin’s case bargaining is progressing, regardless of how you feel about the deal.
Just because you’re angry doesn’t mean you call for PIA at every opportunity. In fact any emotional argument for PIA just muddies the water, nor is it particularly relevant or helpful.
The fact is Virgin and at least one union have in principle agreement. There will be no PIA at Virgin, unless there is a no vote in any upcoming agreement, something that’s still many weeks away.
So can we give the PIA talk a rest.
PIA is not something to just be tossed around. It’s a tool for employees to use if bargaining is not progressing. It also can have serious consequences. Now clearly in Virgin’s case bargaining is progressing, regardless of how you feel about the deal.
Just because you’re angry doesn’t mean you call for PIA at every opportunity. In fact any emotional argument for PIA just muddies the water, nor is it particularly relevant or helpful.
The fact is Virgin and at least one union have in principle agreement. There will be no PIA at Virgin, unless there is a no vote in any upcoming agreement, something that’s still many weeks away.
So can we give the PIA talk a rest.
The following users liked this post:
You keep saying this. In multiple threads. And seem to be excited at some sort of fanciful idea that the entire aviation industry will go on strike together. This is not something that is achievable under Australian IR legislations.
PIA is not something to just be tossed around. It’s a tool for employees to use if bargaining is not progressing. It also can have serious consequences. Now clearly in Virgin’s case bargaining is progressing, regardless of how you feel about the deal.
Just because you’re angry doesn’t mean you call for PIA at every opportunity. In fact any emotional argument for PIA just muddies the water, nor is it particularly relevant or helpful.
The fact is Virgin and at least one union have in principle agreement. There will be no PIA at Virgin, unless there is a no vote in any upcoming agreement, something that’s still many weeks away.
So can we give the PIA talk a rest.
PIA is not something to just be tossed around. It’s a tool for employees to use if bargaining is not progressing. It also can have serious consequences. Now clearly in Virgin’s case bargaining is progressing, regardless of how you feel about the deal.
Just because you’re angry doesn’t mean you call for PIA at every opportunity. In fact any emotional argument for PIA just muddies the water, nor is it particularly relevant or helpful.
The fact is Virgin and at least one union have in principle agreement. There will be no PIA at Virgin, unless there is a no vote in any upcoming agreement, something that’s still many weeks away.
So can we give the PIA talk a rest.
it’s a crap deal. It would be crazy to vote yes.
so maybe vote no, vote no then PIA
- The highest base pay
- The most days off
- The best work rules
It’s not a perfect deal (they never are), but it’s far from ‘crap’.
The following 3 users liked this post by Chronic Snoozer:
The ATO website states Retention payments are generally considered OTE and thus attract Super. DTA may not.
Australian aviation companies are doing grubby things to make the Pilots absorb the increases in the Super Guarantee - Pay Freezes (Qantas Group) and Sign On bonuses ect.
Im not a Virgin Pilot. I’m simply interested to find out if VA crew are thinking about the pay rates and not just looking at the numbers.
The ATO website states Retention payments are generally considered OTE and thus attract Super. DTA may not.
Australian aviation companies are doing grubby things to make the Pilots absorb the increases in the Super Guarantee - Pay Freezes (Qantas Group) and Sign On bonuses ect.
The ATO website states Retention payments are generally considered OTE and thus attract Super. DTA may not.
Australian aviation companies are doing grubby things to make the Pilots absorb the increases in the Super Guarantee - Pay Freezes (Qantas Group) and Sign On bonuses ect.
The DTA and retention bonus both attract super.
Some different opinions
After seeing so many negative comments, first of all I respect all of these opinions, however they are all subjective and only applies to individual circumstances. In this case I’ll throw in some of my subjective opinions that suits my own circumstances which I believe will cover a lot of pilots at VA especially poor FOs.
That is great someone can afford take pay cut and grab extra DDOs, it’s good on you that have achieved financial freedom, but for most of us we still have years of mortgage to pay, rent, child support you name it. So for myself I can’t afford go PIA. And you have to look it from a business point of view, no company will just increase money especially the amount they are offering without gaining anything back, it’s against any business principle hence will not go anywhere. 11/12 days off is already a very luxury deal no one else in Australia have, yet this current 12/13 DDOs arrangement has always been a temporary measure induced by COVID. From both AFAP and company’s recent communication I can see the management is trying to boost the pay by some creative way while not breaking the mandates from their boss, I’m not some kind of company man, I’m just stating my observation, it looks their intentions are good which union representatives have the same view. If you look at the offer as a whole it’s really a win for us. And you can’t use some extreme examples from the US to demand some massive increase of pay in here, it won’t work, better just go to the US, simple. Just look at the comparison email/posts union sent to us, from a factual standpoint, you will find it’s a fair deal, not perfect but fair. If we vote it down and it goes to fair work I don’t think they will do us any favour. I totally support network guys doing their PIA because their deal is extremely poor, if I was there I’d do the same thing. But if ours goes to fair work they will just laugh at us. At the end of the day you also have to think about the company, will VA remain competitive to survive so we can still have a stable aviation career or we just make it bottom up and go stack the shelves in Coles or Woolworths? QF’s got all the favouritism from the government so no matter how bad their services are they get to survive, we don’t have that luxury. So look at the big picture also. If the extra DDOs are important to you then you can always strategically go sick without pay because you have achieved financial freedom, don’t you? Otherwise with this offer we have the potential to make some good money, and most importantly the base pay will form a solid foundation so you don’t have to worry about your liabilities when the month is quite there’s not many drafts available.
In a perfect world I’d want a million dollars a year, plus only having to go to work when I want to blah blah blah, but this is reality, after being through COVID worked various jobs outside aviation, I’ve seen much worse ways the management treats their people while the workers getting peanuts. I understand we’ve invested a lot to get to this point but nothing has been guaranteed, and still will not be, so don’t take it as granted that you deserve better, you probably just don’t realise how good you have because you haven’t seen worse.
Just my 2 cents.
That is great someone can afford take pay cut and grab extra DDOs, it’s good on you that have achieved financial freedom, but for most of us we still have years of mortgage to pay, rent, child support you name it. So for myself I can’t afford go PIA. And you have to look it from a business point of view, no company will just increase money especially the amount they are offering without gaining anything back, it’s against any business principle hence will not go anywhere. 11/12 days off is already a very luxury deal no one else in Australia have, yet this current 12/13 DDOs arrangement has always been a temporary measure induced by COVID. From both AFAP and company’s recent communication I can see the management is trying to boost the pay by some creative way while not breaking the mandates from their boss, I’m not some kind of company man, I’m just stating my observation, it looks their intentions are good which union representatives have the same view. If you look at the offer as a whole it’s really a win for us. And you can’t use some extreme examples from the US to demand some massive increase of pay in here, it won’t work, better just go to the US, simple. Just look at the comparison email/posts union sent to us, from a factual standpoint, you will find it’s a fair deal, not perfect but fair. If we vote it down and it goes to fair work I don’t think they will do us any favour. I totally support network guys doing their PIA because their deal is extremely poor, if I was there I’d do the same thing. But if ours goes to fair work they will just laugh at us. At the end of the day you also have to think about the company, will VA remain competitive to survive so we can still have a stable aviation career or we just make it bottom up and go stack the shelves in Coles or Woolworths? QF’s got all the favouritism from the government so no matter how bad their services are they get to survive, we don’t have that luxury. So look at the big picture also. If the extra DDOs are important to you then you can always strategically go sick without pay because you have achieved financial freedom, don’t you? Otherwise with this offer we have the potential to make some good money, and most importantly the base pay will form a solid foundation so you don’t have to worry about your liabilities when the month is quite there’s not many drafts available.
In a perfect world I’d want a million dollars a year, plus only having to go to work when I want to blah blah blah, but this is reality, after being through COVID worked various jobs outside aviation, I’ve seen much worse ways the management treats their people while the workers getting peanuts. I understand we’ve invested a lot to get to this point but nothing has been guaranteed, and still will not be, so don’t take it as granted that you deserve better, you probably just don’t realise how good you have because you haven’t seen worse.
Just my 2 cents.
The following users liked this post:
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 160
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts