Virgin pilots
I think both parties are delusional if they don’t think $300k/200k with 69hrs is reasonable.
Looks like another operator (possibly a NZ-based freight operator) is willing to pay up. Minimum $210k + super for an FO.
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Thread Starter
Gamma69,
No mate it was rostered. 5 days 3nts away Domestic only. In 15 and a half yrs I have never worked on a day off or done a call out.
5 day trip , meaning working five days in a row , with 3 over nights . Totally insane .
As I have posted in TEAMS , that useless site we have been relegated to, I do hope a new CEO sees all this and holds many to account,!
No mate it was rostered. 5 days 3nts away Domestic only. In 15 and a half yrs I have never worked on a day off or done a call out.
5 day trip , meaning working five days in a row , with 3 over nights . Totally insane .
As I have posted in TEAMS , that useless site we have been relegated to, I do hope a new CEO sees all this and holds many to account,!
Last edited by farrari; 11th Apr 2024 at 11:21.
Choice of words then, 5 day trip, in virgin language is that, 5 days four nights away from home base, 15 years in virgin should mean you know the guff.
Using the pointless spout of Teams will get nowhere, like PPRune.
Using the pointless spout of Teams will get nowhere, like PPRune.
Thread Starter
Well I said the new EA would be crap and it is.
its all smoke and mirrors.
An FO no matter how long they have been with the company , so no reward for time served = experience and Loyalty, will be on 186K that is just about exactly what it would have been if you start on 155k as it was July 2019 and indexed 3% 2020, 3% 2021, 3% 2022, 4% 23 and 4.6% 24.
Mind you the actual BASE is only 175k
So no REAL increase in pay only the status from 2019. Pilots pay need a REAL increase of at least 20 % = FO around 230k. And that pay on an MCG no more than 60 , 13 days off and min rest 15 hrs. Captains Pay same on their base.
This EA will further increase fatigue levels and further reduce life style ones.
Also to achieve that pay the average Hrs per roster will be up 17.5% from 57.5 to 67.5.
So to achieve what is in effect our pay indexed from the 2018 EA one must work 17.5 % more than the current EA and even more from the 2018 EA.
And why do continue to accept no pay for time outside of flight hrs, when we do the flight plan , set up the aircraft, walk around etc it’s on us free. All duty time should attract pay. Full Stop . The TWU and Shipping awards do just that to name a few. The company continues to ,’ have a lend of us ‘.
In a world where many companies are increasing pay yet cutting hrs, we are doing the opposite.
And we are losing days off .
I expect more to follow.
ps, I will put money on it that this con works and it’s unfortunately Voted up.
However I hope the smart pilots send a message to their union and delegates that this EA is NOT ACCEPTABLE.
its all smoke and mirrors.
An FO no matter how long they have been with the company , so no reward for time served = experience and Loyalty, will be on 186K that is just about exactly what it would have been if you start on 155k as it was July 2019 and indexed 3% 2020, 3% 2021, 3% 2022, 4% 23 and 4.6% 24.
Mind you the actual BASE is only 175k
So no REAL increase in pay only the status from 2019. Pilots pay need a REAL increase of at least 20 % = FO around 230k. And that pay on an MCG no more than 60 , 13 days off and min rest 15 hrs. Captains Pay same on their base.
This EA will further increase fatigue levels and further reduce life style ones.
Also to achieve that pay the average Hrs per roster will be up 17.5% from 57.5 to 67.5.
So to achieve what is in effect our pay indexed from the 2018 EA one must work 17.5 % more than the current EA and even more from the 2018 EA.
And why do continue to accept no pay for time outside of flight hrs, when we do the flight plan , set up the aircraft, walk around etc it’s on us free. All duty time should attract pay. Full Stop . The TWU and Shipping awards do just that to name a few. The company continues to ,’ have a lend of us ‘.
In a world where many companies are increasing pay yet cutting hrs, we are doing the opposite.
And we are losing days off .
I expect more to follow.
ps, I will put money on it that this con works and it’s unfortunately Voted up.
However I hope the smart pilots send a message to their union and delegates that this EA is NOT ACCEPTABLE.
Last edited by farrari; 13th Apr 2024 at 21:03.
I am always surprised at the inability of a great deal of pilots to put themselves in the shoes of a CEO or GM and sit behind their desk for five minutes.
WHY SHOULD they improve their offering? If the aircraft are moving, turnover manageable and the numbers acceptable what is their motivation to increase pay or improve conditions?
There simply is no reason for them to budge unless they are forced to. Look at the Network situation in Perth.
WHY SHOULD they improve their offering? If the aircraft are moving, turnover manageable and the numbers acceptable what is their motivation to increase pay or improve conditions?
There simply is no reason for them to budge unless they are forced to. Look at the Network situation in Perth.
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AFAP endorse reduction in pilots DDOs
Actually endorsed a document that reduces a pilots days off. (Wtf) - a new low in aviation.
will the pilots send the same message that the Network pilots sent the same union.????
time for pilots to stand up….
don’t undervalue yourselves
will the pilots send the same message that the Network pilots sent the same union.????
time for pilots to stand up….
don’t undervalue yourselves
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PIA PIA PIA!
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Easy to get emotive when only focusing on one aspect. The package in its entirety is actually a pretty good one. Lots of gains on the pilot side with fewer concessions (I don’t buy into the idea that we should give zero concessions as that is impractical in a negotiation). Brings pay back up to what it should/would have been on the previous EBA accounting for inflation along the way.
I am always surprised at the inability of a great deal of pilots to put themselves in the shoes of a CEO or GM and sit behind their desk for five minutes.
WHY SHOULD they improve their offering? If the aircraft are moving, turnover manageable and the numbers acceptable what is their motivation to increase pay or improve conditions?
There simply is no reason for them to budge unless they are forced to. Look at the Network situation in Perth.
WHY SHOULD they improve their offering? If the aircraft are moving, turnover manageable and the numbers acceptable what is their motivation to increase pay or improve conditions?
There simply is no reason for them to budge unless they are forced to. Look at the Network situation in Perth.
How many pilots will currently go the extra mile?
How many pilots actually don’t try to save the company money? Push for track shortening, etc?.
Remove the toxic work environment and profits rise.
An accountant does not see this in the short term.
I agree with you Global, I can save lots of money for the company if I am motivated to do so.
However...
They measure morale via the rate of resignations. So they see no problem.
However...
An accountant does not see this in the short term.
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I think both parties are delusional if they don’t think $300k/200k with 69hrs is reasonable.
Typically, Domestic 69hrs flying is around 150hrs duty these days, It’s not commutable even with 12 DDO’s.
Reckon with the amount of anger at the moment, most have already committed to PIA regardless of what Bain will offer.
Typically, Domestic 69hrs flying is around 150hrs duty these days, It’s not commutable even with 12 DDO’s.
Reckon with the amount of anger at the moment, most have already committed to PIA regardless of what Bain will offer.
Yes, the ‘package’ puts us back to where we would have been……but……I’m a ‘NO’ voter due to the days off requirement. They have offered the monetary value of thirty hours extra in the package for the days off to be returned. My days off are worth a lot more than just their monetary value. Do you realise the operational advantage those days off are to the company……a MASSIVE win in their minds. It is a huge concession on our behalf and we get peanuts for it. My other gripe is why do people accept just going back to the old pay plus cpi. We have been screwed industrially for years (all Australian airline pilots in fact) so why are we not taking advantage of the current climate and trying to improve our lot. The tide will turn and we will be under the pump again next time…….it always does, regardless of the supposed ‘pilot shortage’ (think about the current world events, one false move and we’re all fu#$ed again). If we can increase our value now and then we do need to relinquish something in the future due to some world event, well so be it, but do it then, not now under the implications that it may happen. Let’s not continue to devalue ourselves, the next generation and our craft.
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How did that work out 35 years ago?
How does disrupting thousands of peoples travel plans, bankrupting your employer and making yourself unemployed in the process create 'unconditional respect'?
These types of hysterical comments do not help, remember, its not just management who read this forum, if you wish to be seen as a professional and be paid as one.........
Please tell us you are joking...?
How did that work out 35 years ago?
How does disrupting thousands of peoples travel plans, bankrupting your employer and making yourself unemployed in the process create 'unconditional respect'?
These types of hysterical comments do not help, remember, its not just management who read this forum, if you wish to be seen as a professional and be paid as one.........
How did that work out 35 years ago?
How does disrupting thousands of peoples travel plans, bankrupting your employer and making yourself unemployed in the process create 'unconditional respect'?
These types of hysterical comments do not help, remember, its not just management who read this forum, if you wish to be seen as a professional and be paid as one.........
Management have not acted as professionals for years. And we are not paid as professionals so why act as one? Management always have to prove a point and have one over all of us, yeah well we have a bigger point to prove. Their absolute disdain and hatred for pilots and employees in general will nolonger be tolerated, and if you are willing to tolerate it, then you are part of the problem! And the general public, couldn't give a **** about tens of thousands of airline staff during covid, so why should we give a ****, when all they care about is the cheapest fare, anyway management have convinced the general public that flying a plane is easier than driving a bus, so you know what f**kem, if its that easy they can fly themselves while we are all on strike!
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So you think it is acceptable to be continually pushed to the limit, physically, mentally and financially and to just accept it and never push back? No wonder this country is f**ked! I honestly give up, the fact that the likes of you exist with the current events unfolding is surreal. All I am saying is push back just as hard until they wakeup, and if they can't wake up, well then force them into the ground, because if they had their way, we would all be getting more paycuts! WTFU!
Thread Starter
What should have been happening for many many years and what needs to happen this time is the Unions that pilots employee to do their job.
Unfortunately the AFAP has endorsed this terrible EA , Christ they are so weak and completely useless once again.
Unfortunately the only hope is the TWU stepping up . Otherwise the company once again is laughing all the way to the bank.
This EA in a nut shell means we get the same pay as 2019 some 5 yrs ago on less days off and working far more hrs.
How in hell can any right minded Pilot agree to this .
Unfortunately the AFAP has endorsed this terrible EA , Christ they are so weak and completely useless once again.
Unfortunately the only hope is the TWU stepping up . Otherwise the company once again is laughing all the way to the bank.
This EA in a nut shell means we get the same pay as 2019 some 5 yrs ago on less days off and working far more hrs.
How in hell can any right minded Pilot agree to this .
Last edited by farrari; 13th Apr 2024 at 04:03.