Roll up, roll up, for Bain and Jayne’s pea and thimble trick
Thread Starter
There was a massive F#CK UP some time ago(~last year). Since coming out of administration under Bain ownership everything in VA is completely under resourced. Especially in Crew control. An FO under training was paired with a non training Captain at very short notice (ie probably after sign on) and the FO just assumed they were with a training Captain. Anyway upon arrival after the 1st sector together the FO pulls out their training file and hands it to the Captain, much to his surprise 😳. Virgin’s mitigation for their utter administrative incompetence is to plant 2 stripes on FOs under training and for their first 100 hrs (or maybe sectors?) after check to line. In related news the 3rd attempt in a decade by Virgin to introduce a new crewing software system has just collapsed in a big steaming pile of fresh excrement. 🥹
Thread Starter
Back to VA. With the latest news around CAE being ‘paused’, why are pilots not walking off the job for this massive breach of the current eba? It seems like the company doesn’t have to uphold their end of the bargain yet pilots do? Pilots should work to contract or walk off the job until an appropriate and fair agreement is reached.
Now it’s a case of working under two EBA’s with candy being thrown out over peak periods of flying to get folks to turn up.
All that was achieved with the 2021 was a loss in base wage and a whole heap of headaches.
Casualisation of the workforce has gone down swimmingly.
Thread Starter
Thread Starter
I find it a bit degrading considering these people have many thousands of hours on the type, previously worked for the same company, and many in the left seat. I worked for four employers with my current type rating, initial training was still 3 stripes.
Likely just a weird Virgin thingy. Comment 122 above sounds about right.
Likely just a weird Virgin thingy. Comment 122 above sounds about right.
It does seem fairly degrading, as 2 bars generally denoted low experienced cadets in the past, with 3+ for rated/experienced crew. I don't really care for the uniform in general, but the amount of bars generally tells other crew (who don't know you) and a lot of the general public, who will know their **** in an emergency and who to listen to. Anyone coming in with previous experience is going to know more than enough to be respected for that knowledge. I know walking around terminals in uniform with 4 bars you quite often get a quick nod/hello with a respectful 'captain' especially from the older folk.
Possibly could be corporate types trying to push a 'know your place (and paygrade)' type agenda. Dress someone down, make them feel less, so they ask for less.
Possibly could be corporate types trying to push a 'know your place (and paygrade)' type agenda. Dress someone down, make them feel less, so they ask for less.
Thread Starter
You’re right, it’s just a uniform, who cares, they are just pieces of material on the shoulder, yada yada. I mean, yeah I don’t care, but it’s just bizarre, that say a Tiger, VANZ 737 FO or Captain come back and need to wear that.
Perhaps once done training post the two stripes to Massimo’s mansion as a thanks for screwing everyone over. I think we all know a few who would tell them where to shove their two stripes haha.
Perhaps once done training post the two stripes to Massimo’s mansion as a thanks for screwing everyone over. I think we all know a few who would tell them where to shove their two stripes haha.
They are apparently issuing jackets with two bars as well. After 100 hours of line experience and they get sent back for the third bar to be sewn on. You can't make this **** up.
Last edited by belongamick; 17th Jun 2023 at 22:13.
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It's also good to remember that there are only two legal definitions for an airline crew, PIC and everyone else is a co-pilot. Even line training of a new co-pilot (FO) is not considered instruction for a qualification. It's just company induction, the pilot training is fully qualified to fly the aircraft already as a copilot or PIC if holding a command endorsement. Ranks and bars are made up for paygrade control.
Last edited by 43Inches; 17th Jun 2023 at 22:45.
Thread Starter
But DL as above has how many hours? I mean she has been flying for as long as many of us have been alive. Two bars? Weird and not required.
So does a 777 Skipper returning need to wear two bars?
Ranks and bars are usually part of a companies way of saying you are worth more/less than somebody else, regardless of experience. As said above you introduce a 'lower' rank with lessor uniform and somhow you justify being on less pay. If you like GA wages in airline operations then accept degradations like this, or you can say stupid things like 'go back to GA' and dress down these experienced flyers even further, it's sad when it comes from fellow pilots.
It's also good to remember that there are only two legal definitions for an airline crew, PIC and everyone else is a co-pilot. Even line training of a new co-pilot (FO) is not considered instruction for a qualification. It's just company induction, the pilot training is fully qualified to fly the aircraft already as a copilot or PIC if holding a command endorsement. Ranks and bars are made up for paygrade control.
It's also good to remember that there are only two legal definitions for an airline crew, PIC and everyone else is a co-pilot. Even line training of a new co-pilot (FO) is not considered instruction for a qualification. It's just company induction, the pilot training is fully qualified to fly the aircraft already as a copilot or PIC if holding a command endorsement. Ranks and bars are made up for paygrade control.
Couldn’t care less how many bars are on the shoulder of anyone….on the other hand everyone knows the managers who should be turning up to work in clown suits.
Last edited by Tommy Bahama; 18th Jun 2023 at 09:44.
