Fire Fighting 737 Crashed in WA
According to a report published on The West Australian (yeah, I know...) website this afternoon:
https://thewest.com.au/news/disaster...aled-c-9678967
The first-ever Boeing 737 crash in Australia appears to have unfolded after the converted passenger jet clipped a hill and came down horizontally, allowing the pilots to miraculously escape with their lives.The water bomber operated by Canada-headquartered contractor Coulson Aviation crashed in the Fitzgerald River National Park at about 4.13pm on Monday while battling an out-of-control blaze in Ravensthorpe and Hopetoun.
The jet had just completed the second half of a “split drop” load of retardant and hit the ground about 20 seconds later, Department of Fire and Emergency Services Commissioner Darren Klemm told reporters.
Quote:
Originally Posted by FullOppositeRudder View Post
The question is asked in respect of this WA accident: "What is the mission here?" It's a good question
.
How about fighting a large out of control bushfire where lives and property were deemed to be at risk by the DFES? Is that not a good enough reason to bring out the big toys?
Originally Posted by FullOppositeRudder View Post
The question is asked in respect of this WA accident: "What is the mission here?" It's a good question
.How about fighting a large out of control bushfire where lives and property were deemed to be at risk by the DFES? Is that not a good enough reason to bring out the big toys?
I wasn't the first one to ask the question BTW. Please refer post #53 earlier in the thread.
FOR
(53 years as a volunteer firefighter)
That wasn't my point. My point was that 2 of Coulson's airtankers have crashed within a few years of each other, whilst trying to put out fires. My question is why have 2 crashed? What are they doing wrong?
It couldn't be that ATSB's decisions to investigate are affected by the extent of media interest in accidents, could it?
Why is the ATSB not transparent like the NTSB, you can search every submitted accident/incident report here;
https://data.ntsb.gov/Docket/Forms/searchdocket
PS just enter Aviation into the 'mode' field and push submit, it will come up with all the latest.
I'm sorry to say, Hoskins, that that will not buff out. 
According to Google Earth, the terrain is pretty flat, so why would they be doing "dive-bombing" approaches (albeit fairly shallow), going pretty slow?
According to Google Earth, the terrain is pretty flat, so why would they be doing "dive-bombing" approaches (albeit fairly shallow), going pretty slow?
Last edited by Capn Bloggs; 7th Feb 2023 at 07:37.
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An "official" in WA has said in the media "it appears they hit a ridge line before crashing and it is a testament to the pilots skills that they were able to survive this."
Sorry, but am I callous to suggest, despite the nature of the operation, hitting a ridge line is not indicative of pilot skill, and anything after that hit just happened. They were there for the ride.
It can be too early to lay blame just after an accident, same can be said for apportioning praise to the crashers.
Sorry, but am I callous to suggest, despite the nature of the operation, hitting a ridge line is not indicative of pilot skill, and anything after that hit just happened. They were there for the ride.
It can be too early to lay blame just after an accident, same can be said for apportioning praise to the crashers.
1. LAT operate over cities and towns.
2. Development of the investigative staff. These opportunities are rare.
Cool heads and more than a few ounces of luck. So glad to see they live to fight another day.Certainly that airframe is scrap.
The only civilian jet airliner I can recall living to fly again was a Japan Airlines DC8-62 that ditched in fog 2.5 miles short in SFO in1968. It was rebuilt and flew on for another 33 years.
The only civilian jet airliner I can recall living to fly again was a Japan Airlines DC8-62 that ditched in fog 2.5 miles short in SFO in1968. It was rebuilt and flew on for another 33 years.
What is clear is that survival chances in transport category off airport landings are good if you can get out quickly before it burns. The main thing is to try to land upright at reasonable speed, just like in any other aircraft and you will give most everyone a fighting chance.
At least the JAL 2 DC-8 flew for 32 years post accident and succumbed to the wreckers claw when it developed cracks, so I'd say the repair was worth it.
There was the qantas 747 that ended up in the golf course in Bangkok, they repaired few once and retired it
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Given they're based in BQB, any largish fire would surely be used as an opportunity to keep up the skills, even if it wasn't necessarily 'warranted' by life/property? I mean you don't want them sitting there until the 'Big One' comes with no recent 'in the field(air)' runs? IIRC this aircraft was here last year and help stopped a large fire in the Perth hills being much much worse... sister's place was in the danger zone, they were minutes away from having to leave when the call came through the LAT had changed the severity of the situation
Last year it wouldn’t have been B139, it was being modified at that time and this was its first season here.
This is what they do, and to lose two LAT's, in one country in 3 years is unusual by any standard.
The state government spent a truckload of $$$ to have LAT available during the bushfire season. Why wouldn't they use such assets to help control a large, out-of-control bushfire that's a potential threat to lives and property?
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What is the slowest airspeed that aircraft could have been travelling at in controlled flight, if it had ditched all it's retardant?
I'm trying to understand how fast they may have been travelling if it was a forced landing - so to speak.
I'm trying to understand how fast they may have been travelling if it was a forced landing - so to speak.
Obviously the recency introduced CASA Part 91 and 138 regulations aren’t effective if accidents like this are occurring on our turf, with fully government funded contracts going to foreign operators.
No disrespect to the foreign operator, however the federal and state governments who are funding these high risk aerial work activities are directly accountable for the management and oversight of these contractors, no matter if they are foreign or locally sourced.
Obviously inefficient new regulations, drafted by the experts in Canberra….
So what now, another few million $$$$ of taxpayers money to get another replacement machine onsite, or they just let the fires kill people and devastate taxpayers properties as the aerial firefighting asset is no longer available because it crashed?
No disrespect to the foreign operator, however the federal and state governments who are funding these high risk aerial work activities are directly accountable for the management and oversight of these contractors, no matter if they are foreign or locally sourced.
Obviously inefficient new regulations, drafted by the experts in Canberra….
So what now, another few million $$$$ of taxpayers money to get another replacement machine onsite, or they just let the fires kill people and devastate taxpayers properties as the aerial firefighting asset is no longer available because it crashed?
Last edited by Duck Pilot; 7th Feb 2023 at 09:01.
Nah, that was a total financial loss, QF spent about as much as a new 747 400 to repair the wreck just so they could perpetuate the myth
