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Fire Fighting 737 Crashed in WA

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Fire Fighting 737 Crashed in WA

Old 7th Feb 2023, 02:31
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Originally Posted by VR-HFX
Cool heads and more than a few ounces of luck. So glad to see they live to fight another day.Certainly that airframe is scrap.

The only civilian jet airliner I can recall living to fly again was a Japan Airlines DC8-62 that ditched in fog 2.5 miles short in SFO in1968. It was rebuilt and flew on for another 33 years.

The JAL 2 water landing could hardly be called a ditching, the crew accidentally landed in the water when they flew too low on the ILS in fog, it was not intentional. The wheels contacted the water in the attempted recovery and the aircraft settled, with its wheels on the bay floor. In a weird set of circumstances the water came up to just under the exit door level creating some nice photo ops.

JAL2 - Bay Area Spotters

As said earlier TACA flight 110, a 737, also landed off field and returned to service, even being flown out from a nearby road.
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Old 7th Feb 2023, 02:48
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Originally Posted by Lead Balloon
Presumably ATSB won't investigate as there are no implications for transport safety.
From ABC News: "DFES and the Australian Transport Safety Bureau (ATSB) are both conducting separate investigations into the crash. In a statement, the ATSB said it was assembling a team from its Perth and Canberra offices with experience in aircraft operations and maintenance, human factors and data recovery to conduct the "evidence-collection phase" of the investigation. "Initially, investigators will seek to interview the pilots and witnesses to understand the circumstances of the accident, and determine the accessibility of the accident site with the aim of conducting an on-site examination of the aircraft wreckage," the statement said. "The scope of the investigation and its time frame will be determined as the ATSB builds its understanding of the nature of the accident."
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Old 7th Feb 2023, 02:49
  #63 (permalink)  
 
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As said earlier TACA flight 110, a 737, also landed off field and returned to service, even being flown out from a nearby road.
Gurgle indicates that the "nearby road" was a dis-used and reclaimed air strip.
A bit like the Gimli drag strip.
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Old 7th Feb 2023, 03:28
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Originally Posted by PiperCameron
From ABC News: "DFES and the Australian Transport Safety Bureau (ATSB) are both conducting separate investigations into the crash. In a statement, the ATSB said it was assembling a team from its Perth and Canberra offices with experience in aircraft operations and maintenance, human factors and data recovery to conduct the "evidence-collection phase" of the investigation. "Initially, investigators will seek to interview the pilots and witnesses to understand the circumstances of the accident, and determine the accessibility of the accident site with the aim of conducting an on-site examination of the aircraft wreckage," the statement said. "The scope of the investigation and its time frame will be determined as the ATSB builds its understanding of the nature of the accident."
Gee. No lives lost. No fare paying passengers involved. Inherently risky activity. What happened to ATSB's 'long standing policy'?

It couldn't be that ATSB's decisions to investigate are affected by the extent of media interest in accidents, could it?
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Old 7th Feb 2023, 03:51
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Originally Posted by Lead Balloon
It couldn't be that ATSB's decisions to investigate are affected by the extent of media interest in accidents, could it?
Given 'Media Releases' from Preliminary Reports are a key part of ATSB's paper production effort, you might be tracking very close to the truth there, LB!
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Old 7th Feb 2023, 03:52
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Bit of ahead scratcher, this one from Perth Now:

St John WA said it was believed the pilots, one a man, were not seriously injured but would be assessed to see if they need to be flown to Perth for medical treatment.


One was a man, and the other... a hamster???

Speaking of bent fuselages, does a golf course in BKK count as "off airport"? If so, then there was a 747 that flew again after a round or two...
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Old 7th Feb 2023, 03:54
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Question

Originally Posted by Lead Balloon
It couldn't be that ATSB's decisions to investigate are affected by the extent of media interest in accidents, could it?
Dunno about that. Apart from The West Australian, the media has shown little interest in the fact that a B737 crashed in WA yesterday afternoon. Perhaps the east-coast-centric Australian media outlets don’t think such an event is newsworthy.

I’m also more than a little surprised the world’s best aviation journalist hasn’t popped up with a few “insights”…

Last edited by BuzzBox; 7th Feb 2023 at 04:19.
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Old 7th Feb 2023, 04:10
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What is the slowest airspeed that aircraft could have been travelling at in controlled flight, if it had ditched all it's retardant?
I'm trying to understand how fast they may have been travelling if it was a forced landing - so to speak.
Remarkable...
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Old 7th Feb 2023, 04:17
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From logansi:

Ever since the Black Saturday Royal Commission there has been an big focus in Australia on keeping fires small and hitting them hard as fast. It's why Victoria now uses what is called PDD (Pre-determined dispatch) where aircraft are deployed to all Grass and Scrub fires at the same time as the first truck. (If you call 000 an aircraft will respond).
A similar policy in South Australia - two SEATs (AT 820s) and two observation helis are dispatched on the first alarm to any grass fire (or similar). In my observation probably 20% of these dispatches are "cancelled" whilst en route to the incident with a 'not required" pager message. We don't see LATs very often in SA. There are none based here, but they can be requested from interstate if needed. We've now got a couple of converted Blackhawks in our fleet - very useful in specific situations.

The question is asked in respect of this WA accident: "What is the mission here?" It's a good question .


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Old 7th Feb 2023, 04:50
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2 crashes within the span of 3 years, whilst doing similar activities. Hmmmmmm.
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Old 7th Feb 2023, 05:00
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Originally Posted by FullOppositeRudder
The question is asked in respect of this WA accident: "What is the mission here?" It's a good question .
How about fighting a large out of control bushfire where lives and property were deemed to be at risk by the DFES? Is that not a good enough reason to bring out the big toys?
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Old 7th Feb 2023, 05:02
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Originally Posted by VHOED191006

2 crashes within the span of 3 years, whilst doing similar activities. Hmmmmmm.
Whilst doing similar activities... Like fire fighting? That's what they do!
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Old 7th Feb 2023, 05:03
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Gee. No lives lost. No fare paying passengers involved. Inherently risky activity. What happened to ATSB's 'long standing policy'?

It couldn't be that ATSB's decisions to investigate are affected by the extent of media interest in accidents, could it?
​​​​​​​Careful LB your bias is showing. You know very well that a hull loss of a transport category aircraft is going to be investigated.
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Old 7th Feb 2023, 05:09
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Originally Posted by BuzzBox
How about fighting a large out of control bushfire where lives and property were deemed to be at risk by the DFES? Is that not a good enough reason to bring out the big toys?
Given they're based in BQB, any largish fire would surely be used as an opportunity to keep up the skills, even if it wasn't necessarily 'warranted' by life/property? I mean you don't want them sitting there until the 'Big One' comes with no recent 'in the field(air)' runs? IIRC this aircraft was here last year and help stopped a large fire in the Perth hills being much much worse... sister's place was in the danger zone, they were minutes away from having to leave when the call came through the LAT had changed the severity of the situation
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Old 7th Feb 2023, 05:12
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Originally Posted by BuzzBox
I’m also more than a little surprised the world’s best aviation journalist hasn’t popped up with a few “insights”…
He's pulled the pin from The Worst Australian and is planning on more TV appearances and releasing new books
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Old 7th Feb 2023, 05:22
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Originally Posted by Lookleft
Careful LB your bias is showing. You know very well that a hull loss of a transport category aircraft is going to be investigated.
No, it's your bias that is showing. The aircraft may have been originally certified in the transport category, but I very much doubt it could have been re-fitted with seats and returned to Part 121 ops.

But let's hope the ATSB comes up with some 'takeaways' that folks flying for the airlines will consider relevant.
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Old 7th Feb 2023, 05:26
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Originally Posted by tartare
What is the slowest airspeed that aircraft could have been travelling at in controlled flight, if it had ditched all it's retardant?
I'm trying to understand how fast they may have been travelling if it was a forced landing - so to speak.
Remarkable...

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Old 7th Feb 2023, 06:03
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I know there is the “Messiah,” but who is the other guy?
Amazing result.
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Old 7th Feb 2023, 06:12
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2 crashes within the span of 3 years, whilst doing similar activities. Hmmmmmm.
And we managed to drown a Skycrane in Victoria in January 2019

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Old 7th Feb 2023, 06:21
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I know there is the “Messiah,” but who is the other guy?
The original, and best, is GT.

Hot on his heels and the darling of Ch 9 is Discrepancy.
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