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717 NJS - What's Going On?

Old 22nd Nov 2022, 11:04
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Originally Posted by Angle of Attack View Post
At what point do we actually believe we are being treated fairly? You suck it up and perform, if not your scrubbed, some woke people these days think different. It’s ridiculous.
I’ve heard that excuse used by a handful of the minority who fail a course. But there’s a big difference here and that’s the large percentage of people apparently not passing. You can’t tell me 70% of the pilots who’ve flown those aircraft in that company on those routes fine for years as FOs suddenly can’t become Captains. It doesn’t seem there were any issues in NJS in the past in this respect, so why now?

I know pilots, in every outfit I’ve been in there are some FOs who won’t make it to command standard. 5%, maybe 10% at most. But 70% is just vindictive rubbish. I’m sure most of that 70% “sucked it up and performed” but were not being judged in good faith.

Forget the “scrubbing” mentality. If you can’t train at least 90% of pilots in that situation to command standard then the fault lies with the training system and the training staff, not the trainees.

As for At what point do we actually believe we are being treated fairly? - we need to be treated fairly and judged objectively in our employment at all times. It’s not being “woke”, it’s a legal requirement.
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Old 22nd Nov 2022, 13:40
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Originally Posted by dr dre View Post
A mentality of “the more people we fail the higher our standards are so it makes us look good”. No it doesn’t, it means you can’t teach…
Complete and utter hogwash. The main reason for the high failure rate on RAAF pilot course is because the course is structured in such a way that students need to keep up with the rate of learning required to meet the course’s graduation date. There isn’t much extra time available within the course ‘footprint’ to keep doling out remedial training to those who can’t keep up. In some circumstances a student might be back coursed, but if they’ve already shown they can’t keep up with the required rate of learning, then it’s more likely they would be terminated off course.

The failure rate has nothing whatsoever to do with making anyone “look good”. Furthermore, the notion that RAAF QFIs can’t teach is pure nonsense.
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Old 22nd Nov 2022, 18:39
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Worked for this outfit up until earlier this year. Everything mentioned above is true, it's an absolute abortion of an operation and it went steeply south after Qantas brought it in house.

Toxic incompetent management, bullying and harassment of staff, crappy maintenance, punitive training department, senior base pilots who are spineless and constantly go out of their way to screw over their colleagues the list goes on. The final straw for many was the most recent EBA "negotiation" which cemented in a huge loss of pay and conditions with the 220 introduction.
At least it looks like the Scottish turd in Adelaide who so happily screwed us on the EBA is being managed out of the operation. Not surprising as he hasn't got any qualifications and presents like a homeless vagrant.

The Sydney base alone has had close to 80% of its FOs resign in a 3 month period. Half went to Alliance which speaks volumes. Why would anyone stay if they didn't need to?

Getting a command there whilst not impossible has been made so difficult by the training department that most don't apply for one as they don't want to risk having a failure on their record. Big C little T.

In regards to the military influence, it has been a festering cancer that has slowly grown, with the old chief pilot being silently assassinated earlier this year. He is now at CASA, we didn't even get a goodbye email.
The military men have been busy installing reinforcements and are despised by the pilot group.

If 4 serious engine failures in 5 months doesn't catch the eye of Qantas or CASA then I don't know what will.

Below are some details on the most recent engine failures:

"This is the 4th engine failure/shutdown NJS has experienced in the last 5 months. From a pilots perspective, there are similarities so the NJS Continuing Airworthiness Maintenance Organisation has offered the information below.
Engineering Actions and Information
Today's event information known to date:
VH-NXQ #1 engine failure on climb. Inflight shutdown carried out and returned safely to Melbourne. The CVR and FDR data will be downloaded pending ATSB clearance. An aircraft/engine inspection will be carried out as soon as possible. The Group Engine Fleet Management team are following up with Rolls Royce.

Previous event information:

June 2022 VH-NXD suffered a Low Pressure Turbine failure.

August 2022 VH-YQT suffered a Low Pressure Turbine failure.

November 2022 VH-NXM suffered a High Pressure Compressor Blade failure.

All three events are still under OEM investigation, and we will provide you with further information as it becomes available."

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Old 27th Nov 2022, 21:02
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And then the HOFO heads o/s for a new type rating whilst this is all going on...
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Old 28th Nov 2022, 07:19
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Ireland ??????????????
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Old 30th Nov 2022, 20:52
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And then the HOFO heads o/s for a new type rating whilst this is all going on...

Yeah...... he should have said "4 engine failures, I better cancel my type rating, stay here and.......and......and......" And what??? So he cancels and stays - what is he supposed to do now, lecture the engines??Seriously,, what is he supposed to do. I assume his pilots handled the problems ok, What a pointless cancellation.
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Old 2nd Dec 2022, 09:44
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You’re right Rex, why should the crews expect a rudder on the ship now when there has never been one. An engine failure here and there is just a fact of life, 4 in quick succession required some affirmative leadership, none of which has materialised.
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Old 2nd Dec 2022, 20:56
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Thanks Gordy - great jon of not answering the question. Sure - poor leadership, rudderless ship etc etc. But after cancelling the trip, what literally does he do?
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Old 2nd Dec 2022, 22:21
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Originally Posted by Captn Rex Havack View Post
Thanks Gordy - great jon of not answering the question. Sure - poor leadership, rudderless ship etc etc. But after cancelling the trip, what literally does he do?
be there amongst his troops. Reassure them. Answer any questions he can. Have a presence. Just be there like a leader should in times of need and uncertainty
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Old 2nd Dec 2022, 22:53
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Why do these blokes keep using the words “Strategic Imperatives” on company freq? Is it some sort of inside joke?

”cutejet xxx to achieve our strategic imperatives are you able to chase a tug up for us”
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Old 3rd Dec 2022, 00:08
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Originally Posted by aussieflyboy View Post
Why do these blokes keep using the words “Strategic Imperatives” on company freq? Is it some sort of inside joke?

”cutejet xxx to achieve our strategic imperatives are you able to chase a tug up for us”
I am not in NJS, but that sounds like they are taking the piss.

Some management chancer probably wrote a memo about on time performance (ie: his KPI target) as a “strategic imperative”. Which is right out of the group management yuckspeak thesaurus.
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Old 6th Dec 2022, 02:51
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He's described by his "mates" at 34 sqn as a "weasel with short man syndrome". Pretty much sums up what I've concluded from reading this thread. RAAF 🥱
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Old 6th Dec 2022, 03:02
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What a weak and lame post. You don’t even know the bloke, but are happy to make judgements based on comments on an anonymous forum and also hearsay.
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Old 6th Dec 2022, 03:38
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Don’t whinge and whine, leave and get another job. States are looking for pilots
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Old 6th Dec 2022, 21:08
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He's described by his "mates" at 34 sqn as a "weasel with short man syndrome". Pretty much sums up what I've concluded from reading this thread. RAAF 🥱[

I'm very tempted to play the man here and call 172 heavy a bunch of names, but I'll play the ball. Your quote is a load of shit. I was flying with him at 34 sqn on the F900. He was one of the boys and very well liked. Thats fact from a 1st party not some unsubstantiated friend of a friend.

As for all the RAAF bashing - I find it disgusting that a bunch of grubs on an anonymous forum, because of a few bad apples like every company has, can see fit to degrade an amazing outfit that punches way above it's weight and tarnishes the 99.7% who are wonderful people just doing their job..

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Old 6th Dec 2022, 22:40
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Perhaps we all should harness diversity, inclusiveness and general wokeness? That’s a joke Joyce! Inbred check and training systems all end up the same way with disproportionate failure rates and training unaccountability. Seen it a number of times. Started with Kendall’s CRJ introduction. Many are still scarred by that.
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Old 7th Dec 2022, 00:09
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Originally Posted by rodney rude View Post
He's described by his "mates" at 34 sqn as a "weasel with short man syndrome". Pretty much sums up what I've concluded from reading this thread. RAAF 🥱[

I'm very tempted to play the man here and call 172 heavy a bunch of names, but I'll play the ball. Your quote is a load of shit. I was flying with him at 34 sqn on the F900. He was one of the boys and very well liked. Thats fact from a 1st party not some unsubstantiated friend of a friend.

As for all the RAAF bashing - I find it disgusting that a bunch of grubs on an anonymous forum, because of a few bad apples like every company has, can see fit to degrade an amazing outfit that punches way above it's weight and tarnishes the 99.7% who are wonderful people just doing their job..
Firstly, the ball you are playing happens to be the man. The culture that followed these individuals is appalling and only has a place in some Soviet era world. Some I speak to have witnessed operational errors by the people in question that would have had them stood down or fail a check, however they seem to get through unscathed. “Do as I say, not as I do, and don’t fvcking think or question me”, has also been witnessed.

Is there any wonder the people who have endured the (alleged) bullying, questionable fails recorded against their name, poorly handled investigations with pre-determined outcomes etc, etc, are pissed at these guys. Careers have been severely damaged, mental health, finances and relationships strained, and all because of a couple of individuals and their dogmatic beliefs. Maybe the rest of our armed forces are great people but that doesn’t help the guys and girls at NJS right now. People are leaving in unprecedented numbers and that exodus will continue until the regime changes, it seems it’s that simple.
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Old 7th Dec 2022, 00:48
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Originally Posted by rodney rude View Post

an amazing outfit that punches way above it's weight
The experience of others does not confirm that comment. Ex RAAF pilots coming into the civilian world aren’t better in any respect than those civilian trained, and really are starting behind with no experience in commercial aviation.

The fact long term company FOs with years of experience on the aircraft and on that company’s route structure are seemingly not passing command training at the hands of these “one of the boys” type checkies is not a testament to the culture being brought in. It’s an indictment, and as others have said those FOs are judging their character by leaving the company.

Last edited by dr dre; 7th Dec 2022 at 03:00.
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Old 7th Dec 2022, 01:28
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You can tell by how they write posts on here that the RAAF'ies think their sh*t don't stink, and where the problem lies.

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Old 7th Dec 2022, 03:58
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Gordon. 172 Heavy, you are a ******. That is playing the man.
. 172 Heavy, your argument is shit. That is playing the ball.

let me play the man again Gordon......you're not very bright if you need that explained to you.
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