Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > PPRuNe Worldwide > Australia, New Zealand & the Pacific
Reload this Page >

Propeller strap strikes passenger after take off from Canberra

Australia, New Zealand & the Pacific Airline and RPT Rumours & News in Australia, enZed and the Pacific

Propeller strap strikes passenger after take off from Canberra

Old 10th Nov 2022, 09:31
  #21 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: AUS
Posts: 23
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Icarus2001 View Post
It did well to injure three people like that, were they all sitting on one seat?

AFP attended but NO INJURIES.

I tell you what, if they reported that the sun was going to rise in the East tomorrow I would have trouble believing them. Bunch of useless parasites most of them.
Wouldn’t be surprised if “shock” is the “injury” they are talking about.
AmarokGTI is offline  
Old 10th Nov 2022, 09:35
  #22 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Australia/India
Posts: 4,651
Received 17 Likes on 14 Posts
True, Icarus.

But you must concede that a cabin/fuselage punctured by a ratchet mechanism on the end of tie-down strap is …. ‘unusual’? The photo appears real.
Lead Balloon is offline  
Old 10th Nov 2022, 09:36
  #23 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: SCOTLAND
Posts: 59
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
The Saab 340 prop straps would often be broken after gusty winds when parked for a while - the canvas part with the metal ring (which looks like the part in the above photo) would be left attached near the root of the blade and quite hard to spot on a dark morning or if the prop had rotated to the 12 o' clock position. The remaining two clips would still be attached to underside of the intake but the prop could rotate freely. The canvas piece was quite tight on the blade sometimes so could easily have stayed on for a period before being thrown free.

Last edited by tascats; 10th Nov 2022 at 10:12.
tascats is offline  
Old 10th Nov 2022, 09:48
  #24 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Australia
Posts: 57
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
THe original article in " The Australian" by Robyn Ironside has been updated.
The update has been put in on top of most of the original text so this is just the "new" stuff....................


A passenger on a flight operated by Virgin Australia partner Link Airways has described the mayhem that erupted when a forgotten propeller strap penetrated the fuselage of their aircraft as it took off from Canberra.

Ashleigh Atkinson was in row six of the flight to Sydney and said just as the Saab 340 was about to take off, a woman screamed, and the front row was showered with debris.

“It was a massive explosion and my husband could see there was a hole in the plane,” Ms Atkinson said.

“The flight attendant was trying to calm the woman down and saying ‘we need to wait until we’re at 1000 feet to tell the pilot’.”


A passenger on board a Link Airways flight from Canberra on Thursday took pictures of the incident, which resulted in a ratchet strap penetrating the cabin fuselage.Ms Atkinson said the woman was hit in the face by the debris and another was hit in the leg, while a flight attendant was also struck.

“When we got off the plane there was no support, nothing,” she said.

“Then I saw Virgin Australia’s (media) statement saying everything was fine. We all felt gaslit by that.”

It’s understood a ratchet strap used to secure a propeller on a Link Airways’ Saab 340 aircraft overnight was not removed before the 8.05am flight to Sydney.

The Australian Transport Safety Bureau said when the propellers started turning, the strap struck the fuselage of the aircraft.


The Link Airways’ aircraft returned to Canberra Airport after a ratchet strap penetrated the fuselage, showering passengers with debris.ATSB chief commissioner Angus Mitchell said they considered the incident to be serious.................
"We all felt gaslit ............... " I'm old; I guess she means she had a nice warm fuzzy feeling :-) :-)

Last edited by Senior Pilot; 10th Nov 2022 at 22:03. Reason: Sort out quote
Advance is offline  
Old 10th Nov 2022, 09:56
  #25 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Australia/India
Posts: 4,651
Received 17 Likes on 14 Posts
Originally Posted by tascats View Post
The Saab 340 prop straps would often be broken after gusty winds when parked for a while - the canvas part with the metal ring (which looks like the part in the above photo) would be left attached near the root of the blade and quite hard to spot on a dark morning or if the prop had rotated to the 12 o' clock position. The remaining two clips would still be attached to underside of the intake but the prop could rotate freely. The canvas paiece was quite tight on the blade sometimes so could easily have stayed on for a period before being thrown free.
Methinks ATSB should talk to someone with your experience.
Lead Balloon is offline  
Old 10th Nov 2022, 10:44
  #26 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2022
Location: Syd
Posts: 74
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
In a statement, Virgin Australia Group — a partner of Link Airways — said the crew followed standard operating procedures once they became aware of the incident, and nobody had been hurt.
Sorry and they know this how? Has anyone seen the final report from the ATSB yet? Virgin Management has.
Mr_App is offline  
Old 10th Nov 2022, 10:59
  #27 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Australia/India
Posts: 4,651
Received 17 Likes on 14 Posts
Default to the usual spin: No one was injured and there was no risk to safety. This is, after all, Australia.
Lead Balloon is offline  
Old 10th Nov 2022, 11:01
  #28 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Somewhere new.....
Posts: 245
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Saab Prop straps do have metal on them. Two solid metal clips get pushed into the cowling, they are attached to thick wire cable to a D-ring, which connects a fabric sleeve that slides over the prop.

Designed to hold pro in place during windy conditions. Also designed to detach, not sheer, snap or break off during engine start. Clearly this occurred.

No, they wouldn’t have been taxiing asymmetrically. Prop would’ve been rotating “normally”

This is where it’s strange, would’ve expected it to fly off during start completely in feather. The fabric strap component may have been super tight. Centrifugal force may have allowed it to tighten on the prop as these straps can get quite difficult to get on or off over the prop de ice boot and therefore lodged and the unfeathered prop aggravating the friction holding it on, at 1000 odd RPM. During takeoff the 1390 odd RPM was enough to make it let go eventually.

As expected, the heaviest part of the object, the metal cowl attachments leading the charge with the strap following, like a comet or heavy object with a tail/flag being thrown, clearly piercing the fuselage.

Few things, 8am is not dark. Therefore played no part. The crew, not removing that section, but did the strap that connects it to the stairs. Possibly new FO in training and’s was not being observed sufficiently. The starter or marshal, what were they looking at during start? Rotation would’ve been slow initially and labored? Did the crew clear the props prior to start? Did they dress the props like another operator? Is that their procedure? Will be now if not before.

Ratchet? That’s just media being aviation term poor. Clearly a Saab prop strap and not collected on takeoff.

Be interesting to see what VA do now….
Stiff Under Carriage is offline  
Old 10th Nov 2022, 11:10
  #29 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Aus
Posts: 2,066
Likes: 0
Received 22 Likes on 14 Posts
Originally Posted by tascats View Post
The Saab 340 prop straps would often be broken after gusty winds when parked for a while - the canvas part with the metal ring (which looks like the part in the above photo) would be left attached near the root of the blade and quite hard to spot on a dark morning or if the prop had rotated to the 12 o' clock position. The remaining two clips would still be attached to underside of the intake but the prop could rotate freely. The canvas piece was quite tight on the blade sometimes so could easily have stayed on for a period before being thrown free.
It's the left hand prop strap which is in place during boarding for most operators. It holds the barrier strap to stop passengers walking between prop and stairs. So very unlikely it was broken pre-flight. In anycase proper pre flight inspection of any turboprop requires a close, thorough look at each blade and its condition. That would easily find a rogue propstrap.

I've heard of quite a few propstraps being left on for start over the years. Never heard one that stayed on until take off, let alone penetrate the cabin. Always a first time for everything I suppose.
43Inches is offline  
Old 10th Nov 2022, 15:13
  #30 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: BFE
Posts: 2,341
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
I was on the SF34 at a regional/have 8000 ish hours in it total (both seats). We didn't use those straps as a matter of SOP. I do know that on the GE CT7-5A2 engine used on the A model, a mechanic could hold the prop stationary while you started it due to it being a free turbine. Therefore I could see this possibly happening if someone did a really really sh*tty walk around plus not looking out of the cockpit on that side plus etc etc etc. Who knows, maybe this company used the prop brake feature (ours did not) as a matter of SOP, so that prop wasn't supposed to be turning on taxi out. Weird things happen in this business when the stars all align in exactly the wrong way on a given day.
vegassun is offline  
Old 10th Nov 2022, 21:27
  #31 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Not on the ground
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
It looks like it was the left propeller prop strap penetrated right at row 1 (the row 1A seat is pictured to the right of the photo) because of the fuselage doubler for the prop arc, there is no window at row 2 so that row is only occupied towards the end of the booking process as the flight approaches full, however as soon as it penetrated no doubt the Cabin Crew would have had a visual on the damage due to their seat position

Prop brakes (if fitted) were only ever installed on the right hand engine (naturally), but not many were used in this part of the world as it significantly reduces the TBO on that engine and also ads wear and tear on the hydraulic pump which I think from memory would run continuously when the prop brake was engaged.

I do remember working for a previous operator with regard to a tight prop strap and it was mentioned (not sure if this is true) that an orange strap is used for a Dowty prop and a green strap for a Hamilton prop (different blade width/thickness). I think the operator only has one prop type so the orange strap would make sense.

The swaged wire braid fittings were also designed to have a weak working load therefore breaking under force leaving the two little push button lock fittings in the engine cowl. I have seen this happen in strong winds on a number of occasions.

One event during an east coast low we broke both (right and left prop straps), informed engineering of this during the turn around and they mentioned that had gone through a considerable amount of straps that day. Every time they have broken for me though the strap would just fall to the ground.

The SOP would be once the last passenger was boarded a final external check of the aircraft would be completed, before coming up the stairs the prop strap would be removed and prop dressed 45 degrees and the left strap would come into the flight deck (with the boarding strap that attached to the stars).

On the pre start checklist another visual check of each prop was performed (by both pilots) to ensure it was dressed 45 degrees therefore confirming prop straps were removed (during windy conditions the prop sometimes would be turning slowly already at this point also confirming no prop strap in place).

Last edited by dayzel87; 10th Nov 2022 at 21:43.
dayzel87 is offline  
Old 10th Nov 2022, 22:00
  #32 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Up The 116E, Stbd Turn at 32S...:-)
Age: 81
Posts: 3,053
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Angel

Hey Mr Advance,
Your #5 gave me a ' a nice warm fuzzy feeling :-) :-)' too................
Ex FSO GRIFFO is offline  
Old 11th Nov 2022, 00:58
  #33 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2022
Location: Melbourne, Victoria
Posts: 178
Received 6 Likes on 6 Posts
Originally Posted by Stiff Under Carriage View Post
This is where it’s strange, would’ve expected it to fly off during start completely in feather. The fabric strap component may have been super tight. Centrifugal force may have allowed it to tighten on the prop as these straps can get quite difficult to get on or off over the prop de ice boot and therefore lodged and the unfeathered prop aggravating the friction holding it on, at 1000 odd RPM. During takeoff the 1390 odd RPM was enough to make it let go eventually.
So, what I don't get is why they didn't reject the takeoff. Surely that's SOP if you hear a loud bang during the takeoff roll??


PiperCameron is offline  
Old 11th Nov 2022, 02:51
  #34 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 223
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by PiperCameron View Post
So, what I don't get is why they didn't reject the takeoff. Surely that's SOP if you hear a loud bang during the takeoff roll??
Loud bang at low speed, reject. Loud bang at high speed before V1 but no other indications of problems, probably continue depending on the exact nature of the "bang" but this is where the captain earns his money! Loud bang above V1, continue and work it out airborne.

That said, from up the front of a Saab with both engines at takeoff power and noise cancelling headphones on, I expect the crew didn't even hear a loud bang, unlike the unfortunate passengers who were much closer to the action.
De_flieger is offline  
Old 11th Nov 2022, 03:31
  #35 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: somers
Posts: 31
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Originally Posted by PiperCameron View Post
So, what I don't get is why they didn't reject the takeoff. Surely that's SOP if you hear a loud bang during the takeoff roll??
Too many variables to be able to judge from the lounge room, like speed at the time, engine parameters, aircraft tracking etc. If I had aborted every time something fell out of the forward galley during t.o. I would be writing reports more than flying.
prickly is offline  
Old 11th Nov 2022, 04:13
  #36 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2022
Location: Melbourne, Victoria
Posts: 178
Received 6 Likes on 6 Posts
Fair enough.. At least this ATSB Report should make interesting reading when complete.

https://www.atsb.gov.au/publications...rt/ao-2022-055
PiperCameron is offline  
Old 11th Nov 2022, 04:27
  #37 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: The wrong time zone...
Posts: 780
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
At least this ATSB Report should make interesting reading when complete.
Yep, I'll look forward to reading it in a few years...
josephfeatherweight is online now  
Old 11th Nov 2022, 04:37
  #38 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Oz
Posts: 82
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Minor Damage?

From the ATSB Summary https://www.atsb.gov.au/publications...rt/ao-2022-055
Aircraft Details
  • Model SAAB 340B
  • Damage Minor
The ICAO definitions around damage are:
  • Destroyed : The aircraft is not repairable, or, if repairable, the cost of repairs exceeds 50% of the cost of the aircraft when it was new
  • Substantial : Damage or failure that adversely affects the structural strength, performance, or flight characteristics of the aircraft, and which would normally require major repair or replacement of the affected component. Not considered in substantial damage are; engine failure or damage limited to an engine only, bent or dented skin, damage to landing gear (to include wheels and tires), flaps, or wingtips.
  • Minor : Damage that neither destroys the aircraft nor causes substantial damage.
I would have thought that damage involving a hole in the fuselage breaching the pressure cabin would be more likely to be classified "Substantial". If the photographs are genuine, this is a wee bit more than "bent or dented skin".

Fly Safe
PJ88
Propjet88 is offline  
Old 11th Nov 2022, 04:48
  #39 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Aus
Posts: 2,066
Likes: 0
Received 22 Likes on 14 Posts
I would have thought that damage involving a hole in the fuselage breaching the pressure cabin would be more likely to be classified "Substantial". If the photographs are genuine, this is a wee bit more than "bent or dented skin".
There's a SAAB that's been flying for 30 years following an accident where a propeller blade entered the cabin. You can't see the repair and hardly anyone that's flown it would suspect it unless they knew the story. The hole in this one is tiny compared to a blade going through.

Loud bang at low speed, reject. Loud bang at high speed before V1 but no other indications of problems, probably continue depending on the exact nature of the "bang" but this is where the captain earns his money! Loud bang above V1, continue and work it out airborne.

That said, from up the front of a Saab with both engines at takeoff power and noise cancelling headphones on, I expect the crew didn't even hear a loud bang, unlike the unfortunate passengers who were much closer to the action.
Same as with moderate icing, the noise of ice hitting the fuselage is very noticeable in the cabin and only the larger chunks audible to the cockpit.
43Inches is offline  
Old 11th Nov 2022, 04:54
  #40 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Melbourne
Age: 81
Posts: 40
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by vegassun View Post
I was on the SF34 at a regional/have 8000 ish hours in it total (both seats). We didn't use those straps as a matter of SOP. I do know that on the GE CT7-5A2 engine used on the A model, a mechanic could hold the prop stationary while you started it due to it being a free turbine. Therefore I could see this possibly happening if someone did a really really sh*tty walk around plus not looking out of the cockpit on that side plus etc etc etc. Who knows, maybe this company used the prop brake feature (ours did not) as a matter of SOP, so that prop wasn't supposed to be turning on taxi out. Weird things happen in this business when the stars all align in exactly the wrong way on a given day.
Impossible for a person to hold prop stationary once condition lever moved out of feather. Prop brake when operational is fitted to RH power unit only to provide bleed air during turnrounds.
lamax is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information

Copyright © 2023 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.