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VA and VARA integration

Old 19th Aug 2022, 11:39
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VA and VARA integration

From an VA AFAP rep today, the AFAP(without member consultation again!) reached a preliminary agreement with the Company to allow the redundant F100 pilots to join the VA NB EBA with conditions of seniority still to be discussed.

They (VARA) will be simultaneously be on Leave Without Pay of their own EBA, while operating on the VA EBA until both agreements expire, at which time re- negotiations are expected to take place.
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Old 19th Aug 2022, 14:37
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What redundant f100 pilots?
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Old 19th Aug 2022, 15:38
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Obviously a wind up, no way they could agree to something like that without member consultation
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Old 20th Aug 2022, 09:48
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No wind up TimmyTee, Pack valve is pretty close to the mark.
All is about to be revealed, and the union membership will have some serious thinking to do.
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Old 20th Aug 2022, 10:44
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Not part of the VA group but why would the F100 pilots be being made redundant?
Aren’t the 737-700s coming a straight swap for the F100?
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Old 20th Aug 2022, 11:19
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I got a email from Virgin this week, some of our family intra Queensland flights early next year have had equipment change to all economy -700.

Looking further it appears they are basing a couple in BNE? Whole pile of routes moving to the 700.
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Old 20th Aug 2022, 12:15
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It’s definitely no wind up Timmy Tee - only reporting the facts! Which should soon come to light.

Seems that dumb pilots will continue to pay the AFAP to negotiate a pay cut and still accept zero consultation.
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Old 20th Aug 2022, 12:56
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Ok, I'm keen to hear how this could have been done better. Given the F100s are to be replaced by 737s, how would would YOU do it?

I'd be disappointed if I was about to get a F100 command.
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Old 20th Aug 2022, 13:10
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Originally Posted by Packvalve View Post
From an VA AFAP rep today, the AFAP(without member consultation again!) reached a preliminary agreement with the Company to allow the redundant F100 pilots to join the VA NB EBA with conditions of seniority still to be discussed.

They (VARA) will be simultaneously be on Leave Without Pay of their own EBA, while operating on the VA EBA until both agreements expire, at which time re- negotiations are expected to take place.
without member consultation?!? Oh please. What part of the word “Representatives” do you not understand. They have effected an outcome which is better than expected given the circumstances thrust onto the pilot body by the company. To expect them to come to a group vote every time they need to make a decision is ludicrous and impractical and you know it.
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Old 20th Aug 2022, 13:12
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Originally Posted by PoppaJo View Post
I got a email from Virgin this week, some of our family intra Queensland flights early next year have had equipment change to all economy -700.

Looking further it appears they are basing a couple in BNE? Whole pile of routes moving to the 700.
Im guessing east coast rpt flying is limited to just the boys and girls at VA mainline given they currently fly these routes - would be interesting if vara pilots could now do these. Who reps the vara folk?
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Old 20th Aug 2022, 13:47
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It makes sense these 700’s will replace current Alliance flying on the east coast.You can’t get a seat to Newcastle out of BNE on those 100 seaters of Alliance.So let’s go to 144 seats.
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Old 20th Aug 2022, 14:25
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Originally Posted by Biatch View Post
without member consultation?!? Oh please. What part of the word “Representatives” do you not understand. They have effected an outcome which is better than expected given the circumstances thrust onto the pilot body by the company. To expect them to come to a group vote every time they need to make a decision is ludicrous and impractical and you know it.

I only offered facts, but you’re suggesting a Carte Blanche following of the “Representatives” who have subsequently left the sinking ship, steered by rusted-on low payed IR lawyers.

I can only hope the other members question their “Representatives” with less partisan views
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Old 20th Aug 2022, 22:54
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The alternative is a QF style divide and conquer approach. There would be nothing stopping VA giving the airframes to VARA, without consultation, and growing them at the expense of VA. Then subsequently using IR tactics to play both groups against each other to keep terms and conditions low.

This agreement allows for current F100 pilots to transfer to 737 on current base and rank under the VA EA (no redundancies). Any subsequent growth in positions must come in GDOJ order. For me, this is a good outcome for both sets of pilot groups and also the company as it means everyone eventually working under the same EA and AOC.
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Old 21st Aug 2022, 00:21
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Playing off between different groups doesn’t really matter does it? Didn’t the VA pilots get a 20% base salary pay reduction and ‘promise’ of targeted credit above minimum guarantee that hasn’t eventuated?
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Old 21st Aug 2022, 01:04
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Ok Packvalve, everyone is wondering exactly how YOU would have done things if you were the “Representative” that would be a better outcome for both pilot groups? (And not just a better outcome for you)

Dont hold back Packvalve, outline every measure you would have taken in dealing with this. With the claims you are making against the union’s, you owe it to everyone to enlighten us all.

(what are the odds for silence - or no answer??)
​​​​​,
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Old 21st Aug 2022, 01:13
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Originally Posted by turbantime View Post
The alternative is a QF style divide and conquer approach. There would be nothing stopping VA giving the airframes to VARA, without consultation, and growing them at the expense of VA. Then subsequently using IR tactics to play both groups against each other to keep terms and conditions low.
Interesting. Does this proposal (is it?) include a guarantee that Bain or any other future owners won't set up a second entity any time in the future the way Qantas have?
That's a big win if they have secured that guarantee, but flip side is, if not, then the threat will always come even after this 'win'
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Old 21st Aug 2022, 01:19
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My comment around ‘QF style’ isn’t a dig at you all in the QF group. Merely an alternative perspective to what could have transpired.
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Old 21st Aug 2022, 02:44
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Interesting. Does this proposal (is it?) include a guarantee that Bain or any other future owners won't set up a second entity any time in the future the way Qantas have?
That's a big win if they have secured that guarantee, but flip side is, if not, then the threat will always come even after this 'win'
No Timmy, there are no guarantees. But this move consolidates the work groups, so the lowest paid pilots in the group move up. This avoids a potential undercutting of pay/conditions so if they want a Per based former Skywest pilot to fly BNE-PPP with a MEL based pilot, there need be no barrier. I will welcome them to the fleet, and hope they are happy with the move.
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Old 21st Aug 2022, 03:06
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Originally Posted by Tabasco James View Post
Playing off between different groups doesn’t really matter does it? Didn’t the VA pilots get a 20% base salary pay reduction and ‘promise’ of targeted credit above minimum guarantee that hasn’t eventuated?
You are correct Tabasco….some are on max hours and raking in a bit of overtime, back to where they were as promised. Then there’s me………I have not been rostered above MCG since it began. It’s the way you bid they say but my bids haven’t changed for decades and I bid exactly the same as every other commuter. On the rare occasion I have been a few hours over, mostly due to being called off reserve, I seem to get trimmed back down…..go figure. Minimum pay…..therefore minimum effort………
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Old 21st Aug 2022, 03:16
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Wouldn’t a senior A320 captain be going backwards in pay?
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