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Network Aviation Revolving Door

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Network Aviation Revolving Door

Old 20th Jul 2022, 13:31
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How to identify QF Group Pilots when leaving the Perth Terminal at 10am:

Mainline:

Have jacket and hat on (38 degree day) and are on their phone being told to go back to the aircraft for a 3 day East Coast trip which they enthusiastically agree too.

NAA:

Still in Paraburdoo with a broken Fokker awaiting the 4pm flight to get them home which will also break down. Have turned their shirt inside out as they had no clean clothes from their unscheduled overnight in Telfer the night before.

NJS:

Landed 45 mins ahead of schedule as contractors donít pay attention to fuel burn. Halfway through an emu on their boat on the way to rotto with the family. Refused to operate an extra leg to rescue Fokker in Paraburdoo.

Do whatís best for you and your family.

*I believe the NJS guys may no longer be enjoying beers on rotto since the hostile takeover.
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Old 21st Jul 2022, 12:52
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Imagine the delusion when you justify being an underpaid jet skipper because "I work two days a week and get paid a mainline FO wage"

No. You're more than likely working 4-5 days a week, consistently signing on pre sun rise and often dealing with tech issues, a toxic culture and ops begging you to work more becasue they're so understaffed.

IF two days a week was accurate then you'd be working 8 days a month. A Perth 787 SO works 10 days a month, doesn't get stuck in the pilbara in 45 degree heat, earns a little less and has a fraction of the responsibility. Easy choice as to which one has the life style.
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Old 21st Jul 2022, 23:07
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Originally Posted by Australopithecus View Post
First year QF 737 F/O

$145,238 for 696 hours.

extras include overtime which is typically +30% and bonuses. Allowances and super additional.
If money is the yardstick of success in life then there are some sick puppies in the industry. A return flight to the Pilbara and home by lunch time in cavok conditions has value for some.
4 day trips, hotels, wife stressing over kids on the end of the phone with no support. Good night to the kids over skype.
The cost of earning the shekels may be higher than you think.
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Old 22nd Jul 2022, 00:54
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Originally Posted by The Banjo View Post
If money is the yardstick of success in life then there are some sick puppies in the industry. A return flight to the Pilbara and home by lunch time in cavok conditions has value for some.
4 day trips, hotels, wife stressing over kids on the end of the phone with no support. Good night to the kids over skype.
The cost of earning the shekels may be higher than you think.
The concern is that someone, somewhere in the bowels of HQ is planning on turning NAA into an operation that involves living out of a kitbag minus the compensation of mainline, hence the number of applicants from the former to the latter.
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Old 22nd Jul 2022, 01:57
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Originally Posted by walesregent View Post
The concern is that someone, somewhere in the bowels of HQ is planning on turning NAA into an operation that involves living out of a kitbag minus the compensation of mainline, hence the number of applicants from the former to the latter.
Perhaps pilots should embrace opportunity as others have done in 1989/2001 and broaden their horizons. The big bold world is waiting! Donít prostitute yourselves working for overpaid executives that only want to reduce conditions. This is applicable for Mainline as much as NAA. Mainline conditions not that good on a world level
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Old 22nd Jul 2022, 02:14
  #146 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ActiveLooker View Post
Perhaps pilots should embrace opportunity as others have done in 1989/2001 and broaden their horizons. The big bold world is waiting! Donít prostitute yourselves working for overpaid executives that only want to reduce conditions. This is applicable for Mainline as much as NAA. Mainline conditions not that good on a world level
Couldnít agree more. Iím just waiting for someone to be desperate enough to offer a commuting contract that would reasonably work for someone living in Perth.
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Old 22nd Jul 2022, 05:48
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Originally Posted by The Banjo View Post
If money is the yardstick of success in life then there are some sick puppies in the industry. A return flight to the Pilbara and home by lunch time in cavok conditions has value for some.
4 day trips, hotels, wife stressing over kids on the end of the phone with no support. Good night to the kids over skype.
The cost of earning the shekels may be higher than you think.
You think the 737 guys don't do this?

They do. They're home by noon as well if they want pilbara trips. The difference is they'll make double what a network pilot earns for the day and won't be expected to sleep on the airplane when they break down in Newman or wherever it was two years ago when accommodation was tight and network didn't send a rescue plane. Is it true the ARO felt sorry for them and offered his couch at home?

Just go drive a bus for trans perth
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Old 22nd Jul 2022, 06:57
  #148 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by onezeroonethree View Post
You think the 737 guys don't do this?

They do. They're home by noon as well if they want pilbara trips. The difference is they'll make double what a network pilot earns for the day and won't be expected to sleep on the airplane when they break down in Newman or wherever it was two years ago when accommodation was tight and network didn't send a rescue plane. Is it true the ARO felt sorry for them and offered his couch at home?

Just go drive a bus for trans perth
youre delusional 1013. Iíve got mates in all Oz airlines and have been looking at retirement options for a while now. B737 guys donít earn double. You are a stereo typical QF knobbier that we laugh at. Keep pushing that cart and enjoying your SYD, MEL and BNE slips. Oh, thatís right, you stay at some mining site and get ď the big bucksĒ
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Old 22nd Jul 2022, 07:16
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Originally Posted by ActiveLooker View Post
youre delusional 1013. Iíve got mates in all Oz airlines and have been looking at retirement options for a while now. B737 guys donít earn double. You are a stereo typical QF knobbier that we laugh at. Keep pushing that cart and enjoying your SYD, MEL and BNE slips. Oh, thatís right, you stay at some mining site and get ď the big bucksĒ
🤣 as someone stated earlier, the flow is one way. I enjoy the ability to bid for a variety of ports whether it's day trips within WA or overnights and same day trips to the east.
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Old 22nd Jul 2022, 07:35
  #150 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ActiveLooker View Post
youre delusional 1013. Iíve got mates in all Oz airlines and have been looking at retirement options for a while now. B737 guys donít earn double. You are a stereo typical QF knobbier that we laugh at. Keep pushing that cart and enjoying your SYD, MEL and BNE slips. Oh, thatís right, you stay at some mining site and get ď the big bucksĒ
Wow. What an interesting dude. So much for showing support blah blah blah mentioned earlier. I guess from a NAA point of view, that's an expectation only one way.

If the quoted numbers about NAA A320 captains salary are on this thread are true, I can assure you, total bucks, it's pretty damn close to double.

The rest of your post I don't understand. Most of the PER 737 flying is Pilbara day returns.
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Old 22nd Jul 2022, 08:02
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Originally Posted by SandyPalms View Post
Wow. What an interesting dude. So much for showing support blah blah blah mentioned earlier. I guess from a NAA point of view, that's an expectation only one way.

If the quoted numbers about NAA A320 captains salary are on this thread are true, I can assure you, total bucks, it's pretty damn close to double.

The rest of your post I don't understand. Most of the PER 737 flying is Pilbara day returns.
until the B737 is retired, then I assume you guys will be pushing mini buses around the eastcoast on regional wages. Btw, the EA base salaries are available for all to see. Please explain how itís double. Perhaps Iím missing something. Anyway, mainline not an option for returning expats.
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Old 22nd Jul 2022, 10:07
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Originally Posted by ActiveLooker View Post
youre delusional 1013. Iíve got mates in all Oz airlines and have been looking at retirement options for a while now. B737 guys donít earn double.
We were comparing SH FO to NAA Capt before, but comparing rank v rank:

Last NAA FO 1st year rate - $107,750. This is with additional hours being paid at $74 per hour above 65. At 75 hours average per BP that's $117,370.

Last SH FO 1st year rate - $145,240. This is at 53hrs per BP but rosters usually come out at 65-71 hours. This is $178,120 at 65 hrs. Additional hours above 53 are paid at more than double the NAA rate. At 75 hours average per BP that's $205,528.

SH FO is 35% higher than NAA FO at 53hrs, 65% higher at 65hrs, 75% higher at 75 hrs, and 85% higher at 85hrs. So SH FO's are not paid precisely "double" NAA, but are paid a substantial amount above NAA FOs that climbs with hours flown. NAA has a D/O payment while SH doesn't, but SH has a bonus payment tied to management payment which can provide close to 10% on top of those wages per year.

until the B737 is retired, then I assume you guys will be pushing mini buses around the eastcoast on regional wages. Btw, the EA base salaries are available for all to see. Please explain how itís double. Perhaps Iím missing something.
Eh? 737 pilots will have first priority to transfer over to the 321XLR on the same rates. The pilots who remain on the 737 (the youngest half of the fleet will fly to 2034) will be paid under the current SH rates, not "regional wages".

Anyway, mainline not an option for returning expats.
Actually plenty of returning expats have joined mainline over the last 6 years and plenty have applied/are in the process of being recruited currently.
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Old 22nd Jul 2022, 11:03
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Originally Posted by dr dre View Post
Actually plenty of returning expats have joined mainline over the last 6 years and plenty have applied/are in the process of being recruited currently.
Horses for courses I guess, personally the idea of dropping 2 bars so i can be a glorified map folder sounds like misery. Itís also an insult to experience, but we wont go there..

Hence why many ex-pats end up in NAA and elsewhere.
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Old 22nd Jul 2022, 11:29
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Originally Posted by dr dre View Post
NAA FO 1st year rate - $107,750. This is with additional hours being paid at $74 per hour above 65. At 75 hours average per BP that's $117,370.
To be technically correct, you are not comparing A320 FO to QF 737 FO, but rather F100 FO to QF 737 FO.

Honestly, a bit of a nothing burger discussion anyway...

Sure, everyone would like to play for the Wallabies but if they don't get selected they have less of a choice - play for the Western Force or go somewhere else. Serves zero purpose when the Wallaby players berate them for their lower salaries at the Western Force...maybe a bit of 'Look at Me' mentality at play

When experienced pilots (wide and narrowbody) are continuously overlooked in favour of REX pilots, then what else do you suggest they do - drive for Trans Perth rather than practise their (once) respected profession...asking for a friend.
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Old 22nd Jul 2022, 12:38
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With Winton delivered and pay freezes below CPI now the norm, how long do you realistically think QF has the edge.

The 321 is a bigger plane and you have delivered it for zero cost increase. You wonít be able to Ďcompareí rates in the very near future. Years ago you would have never compared the 737 to the 767, now you have effectively made it the same from a salary viewpoint.

Pay gaps are closing and chest beating about how much better paid you are is the arrogance executives seek.

Boiling a frog comes to mind..
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Old 22nd Jul 2022, 13:35
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Originally Posted by KABOY View Post
With Winton delivered and pay freezes below CPI now the norm, how long do you realistically think QF has the edge.

The 321 is a bigger plane and you have delivered it for zero cost increase. You wonít be able to Ďcompareí rates in the very near future. Years ago you would have never compared the 737 to the 767, now you have effectively made it the same from a salary viewpoint.

Pay gaps are closing and chest beating about how much better paid you are is the arrogance executives seek.

Boiling a frog comes to mind..
I am not sure what you mean when you say 'you would have never compared the 737 to the 767'. I think you are trying to say that QF short haul pilots will be flying a 767 size/role aircraft for 737 rates, and by accepting these conditions have effectively taken a pay cut compared to the old 767 conditions.

The 767 pay rates are no longer in the Long Haul Agreement, but all Long Haul aircraft have retained the same relative pay differences, so it is easy to work out what the applicable 767 hourly rate would be.

737 hourly rate Captain - $342.22
767 hourly rate Captain - $298.63

The two agreements are different in how hours are calculated (different min guarantee, minimum daily credit and night credits long haul), but I think you will get paid at least as much, if not more flying the A321 on the Short Haul Agreement than you would doing same sectors on the 767 on the Long Haul Agreement.
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Old 22nd Jul 2022, 13:46
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Originally Posted by dr dre View Post
We were comparing SH FO to NAA Capt before, but comparing rank v rank:

Last NAA FO 1st year rate - $107,750. This is with additional hours being paid at $74 per hour above 65. At 75 hours average per BP that's $117,370.

Last SH FO 1st year rate - $145,240. This is at 53hrs per BP but rosters usually come out at 65-71 hours. This is $178,120 at 65 hrs. Additional hours above 53 are paid at more than double the NAA rate. At 75 hours average per BP that's $205,528.

SH FO is 35% higher than NAA FO at 53hrs, 65% higher at 65hrs, 75% higher at 75 hrs, and 85% higher at 85hrs. So SH FO's are not paid precisely "double" NAA, but are paid a substantial amount above NAA FOs that climbs with hours flown. NAA has a D/O payment while SH doesn't, but SH has a bonus payment tied to management payment which can provide close to 10% on top of those wages per year.



Eh? 737 pilots will have first priority to transfer over to the 321XLR on the same rates. The pilots who remain on the 737 (the youngest half of the fleet will fly to 2034) will be paid under the current SH rates, not "regional wages".



Actually plenty of returning expats have joined mainline over the last 6 years and plenty have applied/are in the process of being recruited currently.
They are doing that for retirement. When I retire I would have had a command for 40yrs and earnt much more than QF B737 F/Os. Everyone has their reasons but QF knob ears are the worst when it comes to talking up their conditions and salary. You arenít that special lads! Sheltered workshop with limited International experience.
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Old 22nd Jul 2022, 14:42
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Why would anyone want to work for such a toxic bunch? Thatís Aussie aviation I guess, the best of the best ha ha.

So back on topic with the revolving door and management please? Or should we keep opening our wallets and comparing how much we haveÖ..
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Old 22nd Jul 2022, 15:30
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One would need to be paid hideous amounts of money to be seen in that uniform. Walking around a terminal dressed like popeye the sailor demands compensation of the highest order.
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Old 22nd Jul 2022, 15:37
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Originally Posted by AviatoR21 View Post
Why would anyone want to work for such a toxic bunch? Thatís Aussie aviation I guess, the best of the best ha ha.

So back on topic with the revolving door and management please? Or should we keep opening our wallets and comparing how much we haveÖ..
Good call, MIA or RIP?
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