Network Aviation Revolving Door
Thread Starter
The QF guys and gals have always elevated their salaries when talking to expats at Fattys. They include allowances and overtime. Base is not that great and I applaud your question.
First year QF 737 F/O
$145,238 for 696 hours.
extras include overtime which is typically +30% and bonuses. Allowances and super additional.
$145,238 for 696 hours.
extras include overtime which is typically +30% and bonuses. Allowances and super additional.
With the rostered work hours at present some FOs will gross $230-240k this FY, not including bonus or allowances.
Last edited by dr dre; 20th Jul 2022 at 10:47.
Thread Starter
To re-iterate the 696hrs is 53hrs min guarantee, which (in non Covid times) is rare. Optimum hours are about 71 per BP and the long term history of the fleet usually reflects 65-71 hrs per BP. Taking an average of 68 that makes $184k first year pay on the standard roster. A few years ago the average pay over the fleet was just shy of $200k. And then additional hours above rostered, allowances and bonus on top of that.
With the rostered work hours at present some FOs will gross $230-240k this FY, not including bonus or allowances.
With the rostered work hours at present some FOs will gross $230-240k this FY, not including bonus or allowances.
To re-iterate the 696hrs is 53hrs min guarantee, which (in non Covid times) is rare. Optimum hours are about 71 per BP and the long term history of the fleet usually reflects 65-71 hrs per BP. Taking an average of 68 that makes $184k first year pay on the standard roster. A few years ago the average pay over the fleet was just shy of $200k. And then additional hours above rostered, allowances and bonus on top of that.
With the rostered work hours at present some FOs will gross $230-240k this FY, not including bonus or allowances.
With the rostered work hours at present some FOs will gross $230-240k this FY, not including bonus or allowances.
Thread Starter
ok so a first year 320 skipper averaging 68 per month adds pretty much bugger all at network, but still grosses $199K (versus $184K). Obviously there comes a point where a 737 FO working his ass off makes more than a 320 skipper who does the same; but he won’t make what the skipper makes by doing just 53. Horses for courses.
15-18 year on the 73? Nah, most junior LH FO slot prior to Covid was 3 years, but I think for new joiners now 8 years is an accurate figure.
The NAA Captain could be working 2 half days a week for that money, or they could doing 5 long day sits at mines. In reality they’re probably working roughly as much as a standard SH FO is and being paid similar. That’s when the 320 isn’t doing air returns or waiting at outports for maintenance. But the guy on the mainline list has the capability to earn far more in their career and fly more different types than someone who chooses NAA. If you have less than 10 years to go and are tossing up between the two you may choose NAA for a quick command to see out your days, but anything longer than 20 years to go and you’d be nuts to choose NAA.
Anyway look at the flow of people to determine what’s the better option. How many mainline pilots now resigning to go to NAA? (Hint, it’s zero). Versus how many NAA pilots resigning to go to mainline or elsewhere (Hint, it’s plenty).
Thread Starter
The last pay figure I get for NAA Capt is $185k on the last EBA rate. Even if there’s a bit of a pay increase for the 320 that’s still in the ballpark of what a 737 FO makes for a standard roster after 4 years, without any bonus scheme available.
15-18 year on the 73? Nah, most junior LH FO slot prior to Covid was 3 years, but I think for new joiners now 8 years is an accurate figure.
The NAA Captain could be working 2 half days a week for that money, or they could doing 5 long day sits at mines. In reality they’re probably working roughly as much as a standard SH FO is and being paid similar. That’s when the 320 isn’t doing air returns or waiting at outports for maintenance. But the guy on the mainline list has the capability to earn far more in their career and fly more different types than someone who chooses NAA. If you have less than 10 years to go and are tossing up between the two you may choose NAA for a quick command to see out your days, but anything longer than 20 years to go and you’d be nuts to choose NAA.
Anyway look at the flow of people to determine what’s the better option. How many mainline pilots now resigning to go to NAA? (Hint, it’s zero). Versus how many NAA pilots resigning to go to mainline or elsewhere (Hint, it’s plenty).
15-18 year on the 73? Nah, most junior LH FO slot prior to Covid was 3 years, but I think for new joiners now 8 years is an accurate figure.
The NAA Captain could be working 2 half days a week for that money, or they could doing 5 long day sits at mines. In reality they’re probably working roughly as much as a standard SH FO is and being paid similar. That’s when the 320 isn’t doing air returns or waiting at outports for maintenance. But the guy on the mainline list has the capability to earn far more in their career and fly more different types than someone who chooses NAA. If you have less than 10 years to go and are tossing up between the two you may choose NAA for a quick command to see out your days, but anything longer than 20 years to go and you’d be nuts to choose NAA.
Anyway look at the flow of people to determine what’s the better option. How many mainline pilots now resigning to go to NAA? (Hint, it’s zero). Versus how many NAA pilots resigning to go to mainline or elsewhere (Hint, it’s plenty).
Agree with both. Mainline if you are young enough and want to remain in AUS forever. NAA if you are chasing a quick command / Airbus time to take overseas and not look back. Or for those returning who have a command and want to work as little as possible without worrying if next month’s hours is going to be enough to make ends meet
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So, do the network guys only work 2 days a week? Or is that BS? QF wants pilots working 1000 hours a year, if Network guys aren’t doing that, I’d suspect that they eventually will, you can count on it. I guess it all depends on expansion/retirements etc….. with regard to quick commands. Plus, where in the world do you go these days?
Anyway, I’d take QF SO for 150k spending my life in London/LA/Honolulu etc…… for a few less bucks, than another 5am departure to Newman with 4 bars on my shoulder. But whatever floats your boat.
Anyway, I’d take QF SO for 150k spending my life in London/LA/Honolulu etc…… for a few less bucks, than another 5am departure to Newman with 4 bars on my shoulder. But whatever floats your boat.
That’s great because you have the free choice to choose any job you want. But the overwhelming consensus from the market shows mainline is the preferred gig between the two and NAA pilots are applying to go to mainline, not the other way round.
Thread Starter
have command experience, unlike the QF career F/Os
All the guys coming down from Hong Kong would be millionaires many times over. Probably not liable for tax for a few years with credits from whilst abroad. Hope they’re enjoying themselves. Great flying weather and a visible horizon will be a nice change.
Like I wrote a few pages ago. Come into Network, quick experience and leave... to only return to the next Startup being used against those who stayed in Australia.
ps this thread is an absolute pisser
Obviously a company wants it’s pilots working efficiently, only doing two mining runs a week would not provide that. From what I gather NAA hours have increased over the years, more weekend and long day work since getting into RPT.
With shortages and lack of crew atm NAA pilots would be flying a lot more than 2 mining runs per week for the same money (minus a day off payment). And crewing numbers are biting especially in training.
Resignation rate from mainline for lifestyle reasons is incredibly low, if anything it would be for quicker commands. Mainline has never been a tool to get quick command hours then leave for high pay overseas. It was a long term prospect for those who don’t mind a longer wait but a more stable job based in Australia.
Yeah, you could get command hours quicker at NAA (although I’d say 7-8 years still) and head off to make money overseas, especially seeing Asia still isn’t due to reach peak pre covid capacity for another few years.
With shortages and lack of crew atm NAA pilots would be flying a lot more than 2 mining runs per week for the same money (minus a day off payment). And crewing numbers are biting especially in training.
Yeah, you could get command hours quicker at NAA (although I’d say 7-8 years still) and head off to make money overseas, especially seeing Asia still isn’t due to reach peak pre covid capacity for another few years.
Last edited by dr dre; 20th Jul 2022 at 13:08.
Thread Starter
How to identify QF Group Pilots when leaving the Perth Terminal at 10am:
Mainline:
Have jacket and hat on (38 degree day) and are on their phone being told to go back to the aircraft for a 3 day East Coast trip which they enthusiastically agree too.
NAA:
Still in Paraburdoo with a broken Fokker awaiting the 4pm flight to get them home which will also break down. Have turned their shirt inside out as they had no clean clothes from their unscheduled overnight in Telfer the night before.
NJS:
Landed 45 mins ahead of schedule as contractors don’t pay attention to fuel burn. Halfway through an emu on their boat on the way to rotto with the family. Refused to operate an extra leg to rescue Fokker in Paraburdoo.
Do what’s best for you and your family.
*I believe the NJS guys may no longer be enjoying beers on rotto since the hostile takeover.
Mainline:
Have jacket and hat on (38 degree day) and are on their phone being told to go back to the aircraft for a 3 day East Coast trip which they enthusiastically agree too.
NAA:
Still in Paraburdoo with a broken Fokker awaiting the 4pm flight to get them home which will also break down. Have turned their shirt inside out as they had no clean clothes from their unscheduled overnight in Telfer the night before.
NJS:
Landed 45 mins ahead of schedule as contractors don’t pay attention to fuel burn. Halfway through an emu on their boat on the way to rotto with the family. Refused to operate an extra leg to rescue Fokker in Paraburdoo.
Do what’s best for you and your family.
*I believe the NJS guys may no longer be enjoying beers on rotto since the hostile takeover.
Imagine the delusion when you justify being an underpaid jet skipper because "I work two days a week and get paid a mainline FO wage"
No. You're more than likely working 4-5 days a week, consistently signing on pre sun rise and often dealing with tech issues, a toxic culture and ops begging you to work more becasue they're so understaffed.
IF two days a week was accurate then you'd be working 8 days a month. A Perth 787 SO works 10 days a month, doesn't get stuck in the pilbara in 45 degree heat, earns a little less and has a fraction of the responsibility. Easy choice as to which one has the life style.
No. You're more than likely working 4-5 days a week, consistently signing on pre sun rise and often dealing with tech issues, a toxic culture and ops begging you to work more becasue they're so understaffed.
IF two days a week was accurate then you'd be working 8 days a month. A Perth 787 SO works 10 days a month, doesn't get stuck in the pilbara in 45 degree heat, earns a little less and has a fraction of the responsibility. Easy choice as to which one has the life style.